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Old 02-27-2010, 03:24 PM   #43
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How can one sue a non - profit organization? It has no money and makes no money..
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Old 02-27-2010, 03:32 PM   #44
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Time to do more research...

Quote:
Originally Posted by firedog View Post
How can one sue a non - profit organization? It has no money and makes no money..
I think you need to do more research.

There is nothing that prevents a not for profit corporation from making a profit. If a club could not make a profit it would not be able to have money in the bank at the end of the year.

Non-profit does NOT mean that revenue cannot be generated and retained in a bank account, CD's or other instruments used for investment.

This is something that most people do not understand; hence my opening line.

Jim
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Old 02-27-2010, 03:35 PM   #45
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once again the last two posts point out a gigantic issue in our society... lack of personal responsibility. There use to a time, a man took responsibility for himself and his actions. Now everyone is looking to blame someone else and collect money in return. News folks: only the lawyers make the money. The irresponsible are still not held accountable for what they have done.

The infamous liability insurance everyone talks about. Well, it covers just the officers at a rally. Not the idiot acting irresponsibly or person that was kind enough to organize things. Just the officers in attendance.

We are keeping this simple for now. Everyone is taking care of themselves.

And to answer Carols question about costs... Some one paid for the domain name, someone paid for the web hosting, all of that has a cost. It came out of someones pocket and in the future everyone should contribute to things coming out of pocket. There really is no free ride. Next time nature calls, think about the fact that you must pay for the water either from the pipe or to pump it out of the ground. When you finish you pay for the paper. Eventually you pay to have your tank pumped or your city tax pays to treat it... Even a simple natural act has a cost.
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Old 02-27-2010, 03:40 PM   #46
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The possiblities. A huge TAC BBQ and chili cook off with good drink and music. Come one come all leave your money at the door. It is for a good cause.

Now I just have to convince my wife to hold one of these on my property in So. Il. Oh yeah my property butts up to a winery. YYYOOOOWWWZZZAAA! the possibilities

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Old 02-27-2010, 03:43 PM   #47
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Quote:
And to answer Carols question about costs... Some one paid for the domain name, someone paid for the web hosting, all of that has a cost.
There's a TAC web site? I thought we were just here. Andy offers free club hosting. We should take advantage of it. And I do regularly contribute to Air Forums for a great value, imo.

I think we need more details of how much the club will cost in advance of joining. That way there are no surprises. I am surprised. It was the spontaiety and freeness that was immediately attractive to possibly many who signed on. Perhaps I am unique in that ascertation and spirit of abandonment. It felt like a movement rather than than a traditionally established club.
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Old 02-27-2010, 03:47 PM   #48
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The policy that WBCCI has covers officers, organizers or any person acting at the request of the organizers. I do not have a copy of the Good Sam insurance policy but it should be the same. The norsea's point is correct. The courts have held that the owners of the club are those people who organized it or contributed materially to it creation. Those owners have complete liability, down to their last dollar, for anything found in court against the club. Those who do not organize but only participate are not owners and have no liability. These members are free to sue the club and its organizers for any damages that occur during any club function. Incorporation is the only way to limit liability. Then only the club goes broke.
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Old 02-27-2010, 03:58 PM   #49
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I believe that the lack of liability protection will limit the growth of TAC sponsored activities. I am not willing to risk my personal assets to organize TAC activities. I will participate and contribute my fair share as a TAC member but not in a leadership role if my personal assets are at stake.

There are too many lawsuit crazy people in this world and it only take one to materially affect your life.

Without liability protection for the organizers, TAC activities will be the same as Airforum activities. Maybe that is the plan.

If that is the plan, that is ok if eveyone understands the risk they are taking.
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Old 02-27-2010, 04:08 PM   #50
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Good Sam insurance policy, Has anybody had to use this insurance because of an accident or irresponsible behavior?



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Old 02-27-2010, 04:23 PM   #51
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Taking the high road should include avoiding lawyer bashing.

Some points to consider. There different types of insurance. The types sometimes have different names in different places. One type covers the officers and directors of a club. Another type covers events sponsored by a club. Your homeowner's policy may cover something on your land, but you'd have to read your policy and understand it; otherwise, assume it doesn't.

You are always liable for what you do (there are exceptions such as Good Samaritan laws, but they are not important here). No insurance will cover you for intentional acts (slugging someone for example). Incorporation will protect you from what other members do, but not from what you do. Insurance can protect you from negligence, but defining that and what "intentional" means is difficult. These are all general statements. If the law were simple it wouldn't take 3 years of law school and lots of studying for the bar exam. There are bad and good lawyers and in my experience most are of good character. I detest the bad ones. There are bad bus drivers, doctors, Forum members and people in general, but most are pretty good. The bad ones get most of the notice.

In a partnership, all the partners are equally liable. An unincorporated association was traditionally seen as a partnership, but laws in many states have changed that and treated liability like a corporation. In those states, the members are not liable for the acts of the members. It looks like TAC is an unincorporated association so far as I can see, but it depends on the state of residency—in this case it appears to be NY. You do not need any document to have such an association under the model law, just the intent to form one and the acts that evidence it. I believe in recent years the IRS permits nonprofit status for an unincorporated association, but you have to apply for it and wait, sometimes quite a long time. I'm unsure TAC could qualify as a 501(c)(3)—educational, religious or charity. There are other nonprofit designations, but donations to them are not tax exempt, though income would be. When and if TAC collects money, that becomes important, but one way to avoid taxes is to spend everything you collect.

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Old 02-27-2010, 04:29 PM   #52
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Gene:

You are probably right about lawyer bashing on the High Road. I will bite my lip and not say another word about them. I appreciate you help people solve problems with legal matters.

Brian
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Old 02-27-2010, 05:41 PM   #53
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Ok this is TAC, NOT WBCCI. Each of us are responsible for our own liability insurance. I am personally am insurance POOR. I wouldnt think of sueing the person that suggested we come to the Metro-Det Rally last yr. even though I did trip over and fall on a teather or cord or something. Now whos fault was that? .It was mine cause this dumb ass didnt watch where I was goin. If you cant be responsible for yourself then U BEST STAY HOME.
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Old 02-27-2010, 06:08 PM   #54
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If you could depend on everyone else to take responsibility for himself, that would be great. Unfortunately, you can not. That is why the club would need to buy insurance. Otherwise the person injured could sue you, as the organizer, personally. It is the same reason that you buy personal liability insurance for your car. It is unfortunate that the car insurance does not cover you as an organizer of an activity.
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Old 02-27-2010, 06:42 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheel interested View Post
...It felt like a movement rather than than a traditionally established club.
Despite that I like the idea of the "movement", and I felt the same without naming it actually, it sounds to me that a movement canot be liable. Without any legal existence.
If I talk to my friends and we then decide that we get together anywhere, and I did came with the idea of that get together am I liable? Even if it is at my own place? Am I liable to invite friends to do an activity?

Starting with the idea that a legal structure should be created to avoid legal trouble will put that structure under the legal scope and there you go.

I have a little bit of law background in Europe and I know principle may not apply here.
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Old 02-27-2010, 07:48 PM   #56
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I guess it's a good thing that our lil' ol' rally here in Quartzsite isn't actually a rally, but a mutually beneficial gathering...my understanding is that the "rally insurance" is to cover any damages that occur to rented properties and/or facilities...personal liability would fall to the individual, as long as it's not an 'organized' gathering...sometimes I'm so organized that I don't know what I'm gonna have for lunch YESTERDAY!!!
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