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Old 09-26-2010, 07:43 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by exthemius View Post
Yeah, I'm just going to put the preverbal blinders on from here on out, and just put the stuff together on the website, attend a few rallies and enjoy my family. I'm not in TAC or volunteering for TAC to really please anyone other than myself, as I want a club that has fun with FAMILIES - purely selfish reasons on my part. If it helps ME locate and organize the rallies near me, or stuff that I'm interested in, then I'll still maintain the website even if nobody else uses it. *shrug*
Shawn,

It sounds to me as though you are doing the right things, for the right people, and for all the right reasons! Keep up the good work, and THANK YOU for volunteering your time and efforts for TAC and for keeping everyone's best interest in mind.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:14 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by rebelstand View Post
He stepped up to take on the job. He wasn't asked. He volunteered for it.

He is taking time that would be spent with me, our 8 year old son, and our six year old daughter in order to provide a service for a club he believes in and hopes to participate in for years to come.

He's spent hours helping people who have had problems with the site and trying to figure out how/what the membership would like added. Some people have not been so nice about it either!

His wife is getting upset with people complaining about his choice formats for the website. Not to mention the lack of respect shown in some of the emails he has received!
I sincerely hope that this volunteer-run club is not going to turn in to a "you don't do as much as I/we do, so you should just sit back and not say anything". Volunteerism is exactly that...you give your time and effort and expect no compensation or perks as a result. It doesn't make one immune to criticism either. It's been stated many times that you get what you give in this club. If you want to give your all, you can, and you should expect nothing in return. If you give nothing, then that's your prerogative and either you're happy with mooching or you become guilt-ridden or otherwise remove yourself from the group because no one socializes with you.

For the record, Andrea isn't always happy with what I offer to do either. And I can't explain to my 2 and 4 year old why daddy isn't there. I just hope that 20 years from now my kids say, "I remember dad always lending a hand, stepping up when help was needed and I see now why he did it and I'm going to do the same."
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:44 PM   #73
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I sincerely hope that this volunteer-run club is not going to turn in to a "you don't do as much as I/we do, so you should just sit back and not say anything".
It's certainly not going to from my perspective, but I firmly believe that you shouldn't complain about something unless you're prepared to either provide a different solution, or work towards correcting whatever issue it is that you're complaining about. The comments that I've gotten so far have been either it's awesome, great to have it....or it's crap and I don't like it. I have yet to receive any constructive criticism or alternative proposals.

Here's the thing about the Google Groups choice: it's not airforums -- it wasn't meant to be airforums, and I certainly do not want to re-invent the wheel and try to make it airforums. It appears that 99.9% of the complaints have been against that choice....and no one has bothered to ask why that particular choice was made. Most of what I've received to date has been either "I love this and this is great", or "I hate this...and why did we do that....and lag this and email that".

Here's my thought process on the choices that I made in regards to infrastructure:

1. We need a place for TAC members to discuss TAC things in private.
2. We need a mechanism to easily and quickly reach/communicate with all TAC members.
3. We need a place for TAC members to work through issues, questions, and the like, as well as have "virtual" meetings if needed.

Google Groups allows these because, first and foremost, it is an email distribution system with a web-wrapper -- meaning it's a lot like to old usenet groups. It has forum-like functionality (i.e. a browser front-end), but its power is in the email. A lot of people have complained about the emails....but in my opinion there's just not going to be that many emails back and forth, but it allows us members to quickly and easily communicate with each other about club stuff without a browser. With this setup, a member can create a post simply my sending an email, or reply to other within the group simply with an email -- much simpler and more efficient than a browser-based forum.

Having said all of this, if the members would prefer the normal phpBB software to be used, I already have one waiting in the wings, and it can/will function in the same basic manner that airforums does. I'm here to serve...this isn't a dictatorship.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:59 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WineStream View Post
I sincerely hope that this volunteer-run club is not going to turn in to a "you don't do as much as I/we do, so you should just sit back and not say anything". "
I could not agree with you more. I personally feel that volunteerism is something that is a good example for our kids. Trust me if I wanted to turn someone into a martyr I can do a much better job (it was taught to me from the crib).

Critique the site all you want, it was meant as a starting point to grow from. What I am taking exception to is the lack of ideas for improvement and the tone some have used (granted not by you). We have received more than one nastily toned email this week. I also think that those critiques do not belong on these forums but thru an email to the TAC webmaster.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:03 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by exthemius View Post

Here's my thought process on the choices that I made in regards to infrastructure:

1. We need a place for TAC members to discuss TAC things in private.
2. We need a mechanism to easily and quickly reach/communicate with all TAC members.
3. We need a place for TAC members to work through issues, questions, and the like, as well as have "virtual" meetings if needed.

Having said all of this, if the members would prefer the normal phpBB software to be used, I already have one waiting in the wings, and it can/will function in the same basic manner that airforums does. I'm here to serve...this isn't a dictatorship.
1. Airforums. You can setup a private forum where each participant must be approved to participate in the sub-forum.
2. email? An email addy is given with the registration for each TAC member. Seems like it should be easy enough to fire off an email to everyone.
3. Airforums. You can start a new thread under the private forum or you can setup a semi-private chat room.

The reason for my original criticism if the groups was not intended to create such a fervor. But, due to the cumbersomeness of posting, reading...I was pointing out that Airforums is still going to be my means of choice to get the word out. I'll read the groups, maybe reply. I thought that when the TAC was announced, it was also stated that the Airforums would be the TAC's means of communication. Now, I've got to look at two discussion sites to keep up on what's going on. I'd really prefer that Airforums remain the center of the communication universe.

Don't get me wrong here. The WEBSITE is great. The schedule of TAC only events is a good idea. A general web-based presence of TAC only is great. I'm just not crazy about how Google groups works. Airforums works great and we all know the system. It's kinda the "if it isn't broke don't fix it" mentality. I just don't see why we needed an alternative to Airforums.
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:02 PM   #76
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I just want to say that I'm not crazy about any of the google docs/groups products and think they don't achieve the goal we're looking for. However, a bunch of people talked it though and said that they wanted a free, no organization club which means the only things that happen, happen because a volunteer picks up the ball, takes ownership of the problem and fixes it the way they know how.

Further, I think Airforums is an excellent community, based on a widely available, open and easily installable forum software, one of many, and it would be trivial for TAC to duplicate this should someone volunteer - but TAC is about community, not creating divisions.

We're just in this weird space where we're on the one hand trying to find an identity for ourselves, and on the other have a way to form a sense of community within our own ranks while also discovering our ranks want a lot of often incompatible things.

Also, the Airforums calendar doesn't seem to allow us to filter events by organizer or location, so it is a bit of work to find what you're looking for, and since they only put a short distance ahead, events planned WAY in the future simply don't show up unless people manually click through and look for them.
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:12 AM   #77
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Jason, could you look into setting up this private forum here on Airforums you speak of? It was at my request to Shawn, that the website have a forum attached to it so that we can bicker with out the entire world involved. If you can set this up, then great, more options for members is a good thing. Please keep in mind we continue to keep it "FREE" so that limits the options available to us...

I think Shawn has done a great job staying within budget I might add.

If you have any pissed off, ranting emails, send them to me. I have volunteered to be the Club whipping boy. I take my job very seriously.
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:15 AM   #78
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Jason, could you look into setting up this private forum here on Airforums you speak of? It was at my request to Shawn, that the website have a forum attached to it so that we can bicker with out the entire world involved. If you can set this up, then great, more options for members is a good thing. Please keep in mind we continue to keep it "FREE" so that limits the options available to us...
Shawn and I communicated via PM last night regarding just that. I was involved in the setup of a private forum here and it works very well to this day. I gave him the info he needs to look into it for the TAC.
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:23 AM   #79
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Excellent, thank you both for your efforts for us all!!!

Are you packed yet for this weekend?
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:28 AM   #80
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google docs/groups products and think they don't achieve the goal we're looking for
What exactly is that goal? Docs/Groups cannot/shouldn't be grouped together -- I think you have to decouple the website from forum/discussion -- one (i.e. groups) was lumped on after the fact. As I have asked a lot of people what they want on the website and what their expectations are, and (again) haven't received too much back in the way of constructive criticism.
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Old 09-27-2010, 07:33 AM   #81
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Shawn and I communicated via PM last night regarding just that. I was involved in the setup of a private forum here and it works very well to this day. I gave him the info he needs to look into it for the TAC.
Yup, I'm all over this -- already contacted the moderator in question, and will keep everyone updated as to the progress.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:40 AM   #82
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Shawn,

Keep your head up! The majority appreciates what you are doing. As Dave had found out, some just want to voice their opinions and you both will get the brunt of it. Just remember, we the silent ones do support your efforts and appreciate you sharing your talents. Please keep a thick skin with these things, it is hard to take criticism but we need to be open to everyoneís opinion both pro and con.

It is my belief that a Website and Magazine is advertising and shows legitimacy. This past summer I have spoke to many potential members that own Airstreams however, they know nothing of Airforums. I think this is a great idea and a fun way to keep members involved and excited about the club. Airforums is a great place for some things but reading members arguing with one another is NOT a selling point to become an active member. A one sided sharing of information is much more productive in recruitment and retention. If members choice to become vocal then they can and are encouraged to participate in a forum thread, (both to support and to oppose ideas.)

The idea that we need to be so polar opposite of the other club boggles my mind. Just because I hate Burger King does not mean I HAVE TO hate McDonalds. They both serve burgers but both have very different tastes. TAC will parallel some things, not because we want to be like that club. It will parallel because it is a CLUB (a group of like minded individuals that want to share like minded ideas and have fun.)

Shawn, Dave, Rob, Frank and everyone else KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK and THANK YOU.
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:59 PM   #83
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What exactly is that goal? Docs/Groups cannot/shouldn't be grouped together -- I think you have to decouple the website from forum/discussion -- one (i.e. groups) was lumped on after the fact.
Not a knock on your work at all...

It's one of those things where the tools google provides are accessible and easy to use, but somehow still... unsatisfactory. I think it's what happens when coders/programmers try to make tools for the "Rest Of Us."

(Which is hard for me to say when I have 20+ webservers sat on the rack behind me.)
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:03 PM   #84
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It's one of those things where the tools google provides are accessible and easy to use, but somehow still... unsatisfactory. I think it's what happens when coders/programmers try to make tools for the "Rest Of Us."
Or when coders/programmers try and use tools created by coders/programmers that they think will work for the "Rest Of You" is more like it.....it all works perfectly in my head!
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