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Old 09-02-2010, 04:38 PM   #29
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Order by dates with location seems logical to me.

WBCCI - 6318 CAC - 6318
AIR - 23036
TAC - IA-1
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Old 09-02-2010, 04:45 PM   #30
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TAC folks won't read it anyways... they're RebEls!

If it's to be, it's up to me.
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Old 09-02-2010, 06:56 PM   #31
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Being a person that just recently began the process of planning a rally and being the one of the hosts charged with publicity, I can speak from reasonable, albeit young, experience with rally planning. I made sure that the title of the rally, which is what everyone would see in the New Posts or the Portal, was clear about the topic: TAC, Ohio, and Rally.

Organizing things in a list in the newsletter is great and needs to be done. But, when it comes to a searchable database or one listed by date in order of occurance, I have to revive something that was written previously about the TAC (I don't know where exactly, but I remember reading it). It was that the TAC was to utilize AirForums (and other electronic communication methods) to organize itself and its members. With that idea in mind, anyone organizing a rally should list it on AirForums and include in the title: "TAC", "Rally", and the state and/or major city of location so that it is easily searchable and recognizable in a list. There is a feature on the Portal page at the bottoms that lists all upcoming rallies (as long as they are on the Rally Calendar) in order of their occurrence.

I also echo my sentiment from yesterday in this thread, although it was much more concise, that there should be no regions. I really dislike that someone who lives on the eastern border of New Mexico might be considered "southwest region" but the person that lives not 20 miles from them on the western border of Texas is considered the "Texas" or "south central" region. It just seems wrong to draw borders. All it serves is to define separation and that's not the point of the TAC.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:15 PM   #32
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I agree with Winestream in regards to using Airforums to post dates, the scheduling resource is already there. If things start getting spread around in too many locations/sites, info may get overlooked. I have limited time to look, so minimal sites or locations to surf makes things easier.

As far as regions go, I think the state i.d. suffices. If need be, that is something that could be amended later.
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:00 PM   #33
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So, do you want to know where the next rally is? Look at the bottom of the forum page and you will find a list of the rallys, date and where.
Organization; at the Iowa TAC, Iowa Jones said let's get together at ----- on this date---and the potluck willbe Saturday evening. So, we had a fantastic potluck with homemade ice cream and we decorated the pavillion for the event. All this with NO formal organization; we just pitched in. We do the same thing with the Northern Illinois rally in Pecatonica Illinois. See the listing at the bottom of the forum page._
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:29 PM   #34
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Badges......... we don't need no stinkin badges..........
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Old 09-04-2010, 06:30 PM   #35
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This is a database administration question, at least on one level. There are 50 states, which means if a datum is listed by state, one must consider 50 separate classifications. This is inefficient... which is why some databases use aggregates like "Mid Atlantic" to define a group of states.

Think of it this way... would you rather look for Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Delaware and DC, each separately for a rally, event or something else? Or would you like to have a categorization so you could look at "Mid Atlantic" and see everything going on in the region?

Like or not, people in the Mid Atlantic are going to rally and bump into one another more often than they are going to bump into folks in California. It's a geographic reality. Honestly, I think you can create 8 to 10 geographic regions, if only to better organize information... and you can do it without creating a Byzantine bureaucracy.
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Old 09-04-2010, 07:12 PM   #36
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I usually search by date first, then state. I can quickly scan the dates that are open for me. I then would check for states that are within driving distance of me. I can easily recognize state names that are near me. Regions just make more work as I would have to search any regions that are adjacent to my own for those borderline states.

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Old 09-04-2010, 07:46 PM   #37
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I am not sure exactly how to do this but why not a simple Excel spreadsheet? Dates location, rally site, and facilties available could be used for search criteria. If you don't have Excel there are free programs that work with Excel that can be downloaded.
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:09 AM   #38
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:45 AM   #39
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Say no to organization! No rules, just camping and fun.
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Old 09-11-2010, 12:26 PM   #40
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Organizing how rallies are listed in a newsletter and organizing a group by geographic regions are seemingly different, but the power of the written word is sufficient to make what Dave does in the newsletter into an informal group organizational structure. An informal structure can become an institution. So, it's good Dave asked the question about how to do the newsletter listings.

There aren't that many rallies now anyway, but good to plan ahead. I agree listing by date is a good start, and then having the state or province in the title as Winestream suggests.

I think not all gatherings need be "rallies". A rally implies a certain formality—someone is reserving spaces perhaps, people may have assignments to bring things, even a Lawrence Welk copy band (that would be enough to keep me away), and with the possible liability issue. But, if I were to want to get together with like minded people, I'd just announce I'll be at X on Y dates, and that if you want to be there, let us know. This may avoid liability problems, though I am not completely sure and results may vary. I don't know what to call it except "I'll be at …". It should be tagged differently than a rally to make sure it is not assumed to be a rally or the point of the difference is lost. People going to an "Ill be at …" will know all are responsible for themselves, we may get together on doing some things, campfires are possible, potlucks too. No promises would be made about a location being safe (this is a hard one to avoid a negligence suit on because someone chooses a place and it could be claimed that implies you've checked it out). Since any name for it I can think off implies some organizing, "Ill be at … " says it best for me.

I expect some people in some states or provinces will organize by state or province and maybe even a few such groups will get together in geographic areas—New England is probably the region or area most identifiable among all (maybe Maritime Provinces is too) and a natural grouping of small states. I think this will be a natural process and people will select their method of organization or non-organization and over time we'll find what works best.

An historical note: The revulsion Americans felt about monarchical top down government at the time of the Revolution was expressed in state and federal governments that were very weak with most power in the legislature, weak governors and weak courts. In NY, judicial appeals were made to the state senate and not to an appellate court. This was considered more democratic. As often happens, the resultant governments were so weak they had trouble getting things done. In addition, the conservatives of the time wanted something more like the British government without royal titles, but with respect for the landed gentry.

In 1787 a group of counterrevolutionaries gathered in Phlladelphia and wrote a new constitution that was far more centralized and remarkably like the British government without royal titles and with a more defined system of checks and balances—it followed the prescriptions of Montesquieu, but those were simply reflections on how western European governments were already organized. The delegates were reacting to the chaos of the Articles of Confederation government. The delegates went far beyond their charge and decided the new government would go into effect even if not all states agreed to it. Contrary to popular belief, the new constitution was not a libertarian document, but a partial and even strong repudiation of that concept. Many opposed the constitution and a deal was struck to propose a Bill of Rights to immediately to ensure the support of the liberals of that day (the terms "liberal" and "conservative" have been redefined in a tortured process ever since). The deal was honored and 10 amendments to the constitution were adopted almost simultaneously. In French Revolution terms this was the Thermidorian Reaction.

Is not TAC a response to the WBCCI monarchy, dense rules and perceived unfairness? Time moves faster on the internet than it did in the 1780's, so we already have proposals for organization and this is no surprise to me. Now we have 60 states and provinces, a district, several territories, maybe some eventual estados, each with individuals free to decide how to organize. What Dave puts on paper does matter because if it's on paper, people tend to think it matters and os the way it should be.

Mao suggested letting a thousand flowers bloom. I'm not sure whether he meant or underestimated how many flowers would undermine his rule. But, let the flowers bloom even if some are blooming idiots.

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Old 09-11-2010, 01:09 PM   #41
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Thank you Gene for a really well thought out and clearly expressed post.

There are big implications to even quite small and innocuous things that may be said here and in the mag. It is important that I consult widely, and respond as neutrally as I can in my "editor" capacity, and set that aside from my personal views. Sometimes they're in conflict. When they are, my views take second place to the majority view, because I'm not writing "Dave's Mag" - I'm writing "The TAC Mag."

This is why I had to put the questions front and center as I did. Obviously, I was a little naive and inexpert in wording some things, as my take on "the issues" is different from some others. I'm learning.

Here's a proposal:

Rallies: Organized by an individual or group, in advance.
Meets: "I'll be at..." self-organized get-togethers.
No geographical areas: People know what state they live in and what states they can travel to, so put the state in the title. If it's a caravan, list the states in trip order.

Any problems with that idea, or better ideas?
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Old 09-11-2010, 02:43 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Dave Park View Post

Rallies: Organized by an individual or group, in advance.
Meets: "I'll be at..." self-organized get-togethers.
Defining things is hard. Rally one is ok but may need more info. "Meets" and "get-together" imply some organization to me and that's why I choose to avoid commonly used words. I'm not sure what "self-organized" means, but it seems to confer responsibility for some organization. "I'll be at " says only where someone will be and has minimal liability (maybe). It has the advantage of not being defined previously as an organized event. It could be listed long in advance, such as "I'll be at Yosemite October 18 for 3 nights at the Upper Pines CG. Contact me if you'll be there" (actually that's true, but I'm not organizing anything).


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