Tundra towing 23' vs 25'

[cyafishin]

We are looking at an Ocean breeze 25 vs 23. We like the 25 FB floor plan but I have read some threads which make me wonder if a 2007 Tundra 4X4 4.7L V8 is enough. Any thoughts appreciated.

[janetb]

We tow our 25' FB with a Tundra '07 dual cab (w/tow package) 5.7 L, have gone up and down and around, and couldn't be happier.

[willyd]

You really need a 5.7L. I purchased a 2 wheel drive as Toyota initially had issues with the 4 wheel drive. The new body style was changed for 2007. Consumer Reports gives a real good rating for the 20007. You might want to consider a certified vehicle as I did. Check the Toyota Certified & Auto Trader websites. Reasonable gas mileage when not towing as well. Take Care. Bill

[willyd]

Adding to the above post, I believe the 5.7L comes with a trailer tow package. Please be sure of that. Thanks again. Bill

[cyafishin]

Unfortunately we already own the 4.7L tundra double cab. Last year when we bought it we didn't have an airstream in mind.
Are my choices?:
1.pay the $$ to upgrade the truck to the larger engine
2. settle on the 23' floor plan.

Does anyone have experience pulling w/ a 2007-2008 4.7L Tundra? If so what do you pull and how confident are you. Thanks.

[dpandorf]

I think it would be way easier unloading a 4.7L Tundra than a 23' Airstream if you realized after camping that the trailer is too small.

[Carl Bolton]

We towed a 25 FB from Kansas to California with a 4.7 tundra and had no problems. We have since upgraded to the 5.7. It gets better mileage and climbs the big hills easier, but the 4.7 did fine.

[cyafishin]

Thanks for the feedback. Being new to this, it is a bit confusing. With the 2007 4.7L double cab and a 25' AS you get conflicting results when you try to go by the numbers. If you go by GVWR it doesn't fly. But if you go by GCWR or Towing capacity it does.
I'm leaning toward the 23 or the 20 to be safe. But my kids are only 8 and 10 and getting bigger. Hopefully they will want to sleep outside when they get older.
We are currently in a Chalet pop up. It weighs nothing (2000). Anything in the AS line will be a big step up for us. I just can't see buying a new truck.
We live in Oregon and use it for 2 hr tows to the mtns or coast for long weekends.
I guess given the last post I could go for the 25' and plan on seeing how it goes with these short pulls. Then if I got backed into a corner change out the truck.
Thanks

[dpandorf]

Originally Posted by cyafishin

....
I'm leaning toward the 23 or the 20 to be safe. But my kids are only 8 and 10 and getting bigger. Hopefully they will want to sleep outside when they get older.
We are currently in a Chalet pop up. It weighs nothing (2000). Anything in the AS line will be a big step up for us. I just can't see buying a new truck.
We live in Oregon and use it for 2 hr tows to the mtns or coast for long weekends.
....
Thanks

With fast growing boys is even the 25' big enough? We too have two boys and they're 12 & 9. We're really happy to have a 34', plenty of room for all of us and a full sized dog to boot. One of our boys sleeps on the couch and the other the dinette.

Something to think about.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by dpandorf

With fast growing boys is even the 25' big enough? We too have two boys and they're 12 & 9. We're really happy to have a 34', plenty of room for all of us and a full sized dog to boot. One of our boys sleeps on the couch and the other the dinette.

Something to think about.

Back in the 60's our family of 4 (two adults and two teenagers travelled for weeks, every year on very long excursions in the family sedan and 13' to 15' travel trailers. I can't recall and problems although I'm sure a little more room would have been nice.

[CanoeStream]

Not even Toyota is moving a lot of pickups. They've got to keep that new San Antonio plant running. Keep your eye on deals for a 5.7. When I got my 25' FB SE I had a similar shortfall on specs. I camped with it for half a season and compensated by keeping the truck box virtually empty. I had to give up carrying my canoe & bikes at the same time. Forget about firewood from home!

The question already was raised -- does your truck have a tow package or would you have to add it? This should include an additional tranny cooler and 2" receiver with a 7-pin trailer connection. You can work the mirrors other ways.

Originally Posted by cyafishin

If you go by GVWR it doesn't fly. But if you go by GCWR or Towing capacity it does.

Do you like boating when the water is only up to the deck or is it okay yet if your Sperry Topsiders aren't wet up on the bridge? To drive with an overloaded vehicle is a safety issue and will impair emergency handling, braking and add more wear and tear. I don't know that you will be overloaded but let's look at an approach.

The mathematical difference between TV GVWR and empty weight is the Payload.
2007 Toyota Tundra specs, auto safety at Edmunds says your payload is 1510 pounds. Options on your truck subtract from this; eg, check the invoice for added items with any weight. Truck cap? And then hitch weight -- don't forget to add all the weight distribution/antisway add-on gear and LP in the tanks. 2 adults & 2 growing kids weigh how much. You talk like you've done some of the calculations already.

A word on GCWR & tow capacity -- stay within payload specs and you will never approach either of these numbers. Tow capacity is determined with a virtually empty truck and (almost) a steeplechase jockey for a driver. Period. Nothing else in the truck. Note how prominently tow capacity numbers figure in the ads and you should properly attribute these numbers to Madison Avenue and the marketing department.

Yes, in fair weather kids do enjoy having a tent by themselves. And they'll enjoy a friend along on occasion. And there will be sports practices starting in August preventing them coming along in high school. And camping with the folks is so square...

Originally Posted by dpandorf

With fast growing boys is even the 25' big enough? ...... One of our boys sleeps on the couch and the other the dinette.

The couch and dinette on our 25' FB SE would each hold a 6+ footer. At least that's an option if the weather turns bad on tenters -- or if you're not to your final destination and need to turn in without all the fuss.

Depreciation - dpandorf was headed this direction in his first response. Get the trailer you and your wife want with the sleeping arrangement you'll be happy with after the kids are grown. Buying a new Airstream once and having to buy a different one in 3-5 years will give you a double depreciation hit -- quite severe on an RV. You may have reasonable camping options for a year or two with your current truck; eg, interstates more gradual than some county or state highways. Watch how it performs and then replace? But keep the box lightly loaded. I have to give way to actual experiences like janetb's & Carl Bolton's. Then we've even had threads about people in the NW being very happy towing with Tacomas.

Best wishes in your pursuit of aluminitis!

[dpandorf]

Originally Posted by CanoeStream

....

Depreciation - dpandorf was headed this direction in his first response. Get the trailer you and your wife want with the sleeping arrangement you'll be happy with after the kids are grown. Buying a new Airstream once and having to buy a different one in 3-5 years will give you a double depreciation hit -- quite severe on an RV. .....

Best wishes in your pursuit of aluminitis!

I must admit I'm very new at this Rving thing and I know now my wife and I were very fortunate to have found the "used" trailer we have. Of course, with the 34' trailer it was a no brainer to go with the bigger truck.

My wife was originally looking at 28 and 30 new trailers on a couple dealer lots that were the previous year models that the dealers were motivated to sell.

We too were then looking at the newest Tundra and ran all the numbers discussed here about payload etc.

Plus I had a lot of help from an uncle who has pulled RV trailers for a long time and after getting his diesel 8 years ago won't tow with anything else.

In another post, maybe its this thread, but very recent in the past couple days, spoke a lot about the heavy duty trucks and how long they last. As an example, my uncle's 3/4 ton has almost 200,000 miles on it and is still going strong.

So if it were me again looking for a trailer and tow truck today and with our current economic scenario, I would think there are some bargains to be had on both a used trailer and a very new used 3/4 ton truck that's hardly been used with low mileage.

I would then run the numbers on the cost differences and see how far out the break even points would be.

Again I'd buy the right trailer first and then match the TV to it. Not the other way around. The brand new Airstream or a nice used one will far out last the TV.

If you don't want to sell your current Tundra but want a bigger TV, maybe find a several year old bigger truck in good shape.

When we bought our trailer the seller had a 2000 F250 they were selling too. Always garaged, 80,000 miles and wanted $16K for it.

What's the difference btwn selling your current Tundra and buying a new one? Or trying retrofit your existing one and wearing it out sooner than maybe you want?

Again, in this current market there's got to be some deals with a little research.

JMHO.

[cyafishin]

yes, my 4.7L tundra has the tow package.

I was thinking that the 23d would allow for two kids (opposite sex) to sleep some what apart. It looks like one could be on the sofa and one on the dinette.
I was thinking from a sleep perspective the upgrade to a 25 FB really only changed MY sleeping experience.
Is there much difference in towing a 23 vs 25 in regards to fitting into campgrounds, etc?
Thanks

[CanoeStream]

Originally Posted by cyafishin

I was thinking that the 23d would allow for two kids (opposite sex) to sleep some what apart. It looks like one could be on the sofa and one on the dinette.

The 23' Ocean Breeze only has one dinette (not sure if can be ordered with a sofa option). The 23' Safari has your choice of either dinette or sofa. Yes, your children will want to sleep separately.

Originally Posted by cyafishin

I was thinking from a sleep perspective the upgrade to a 25 FB really only changed MY sleeping experience.

Be sure you lay your eyes on the master bed in either the 23' Safari or Ocean Breeze. Some people work well with the 48" wide beds or the short side on a corner bed. Need to understand that going into it though.

I started the http://www.airforums.com/forums/f142...tes-24793.html thread a couple years back. I've found that it's not as big a limitation as I thought back then. 2airishuman says he gets in everywhere he wants with a 34-footer. But with an Airstream in the mid-20s you'll fit in more sites when campgrounds are starting to be reserved out. The online reservation systems usually give a good idea on site length. I've gotten into every listed 40' site I've settled for -- with the 20' long truck not parked on the grass either. I don't think 2' will make much difference in fitting into campsites. The real limitation we hear about seems to be sites in some older parks in California may be very short.

[cyafishin]

The 23 D international or Ocean Breeze has both a dinette and sofa. According to the airstream floor plans.
I hope thats accurate.
Thanks

[CanoeStream]

Yeah, right. I'm looking at the titles & floorplans in reverse sequence.

[Doug Smith]

I have ben towing my 2007 Safari 25FB SE LS with a 2003 Toyota Tundra Access Cab 4 X 4 and a 4.7L engine. W e purchased the AS in November 2007 and right a way I had my Toyota engine modified by the Toyota dealer. They claim that their racing Mod would gaim 40HP for me. This is an exhaust manifold and new air intake. I cannot measure the increase in HP but the performance is a nice step up. That cost me $1,000.00 for parts and about the same in labor. I also added an Air Ride system (another $500.00) and achieved another step up. I love my 2003 model Tundra or otherwise may have gone for a newer model with the 5.7L engine. We have thus far made 2 trips with the trailer, both south down the Oregon and California coasts and love our rig's handling.

[donw]

We ordered a 23 ocean breeze from Arkansas. Drove there from California, we had never towed but a wells cargo box trailer before. They set it up and we could not be happier. My wife wanted 25, we had already bought the truck at close out of 2006's. We too had concerns about fitting into parks.
We are very happy with the 23'
Don

[2airishuman]

hi c-ya'

have u been to the dealer yet to crawl round INSIDE units?

with the family as described the 25 offers more options.

and should fit in 98% of the nw camp grounds and sites.

making the dinette up for bedding is a PAIN.

so take a look at another approach.

a unit with TWIN beds in the main sleeping room and a generous sofa bed at the other end.

put the kids in the twins. they could share that area for many years.

parents go on the sofa, and can stay up after the kids are sacked.

the newer, full size sofas convert to a larger, longer and more comfortable bed...

than ANY of the 'full beds' offered in th 23s or 25s...

and the sofa is MUCH quicker to conver using a 'bed sack' thing, the 'up against the wall' beds aren't fun to make.

i really like the ocean breeze interior, but wonder about how great it is for real camping utility.

25s generally have MORE fluid capacity than 23s and are a very popular size on the used market...

so looking for a recent 25 with twins and sofa would save ya BIG on the rv purchase....

just in case ya wanna pull it with a newer tundra...

just some ideas to ponder, get over to the dealer and visit a rally, check out LOTS of units.

and don't be overwhelmed by a decor or color scheme,

the northwest outdoors provides both, and with much more pizazz than a/s could ever manage...

cheers
2air'