Wife wants a new Class A motor home - I am interested in Airstream

[Fly at Night]

Originally Posted by PharmGeek

I do not think we should joke about the zombie apocalypse! It is obviously real! As soon as you talk about it enough, 22 caliber ammo disappears from existence!

And because it should not be joked about...the gas mileage on the AS interstate is pretty amazing...gas could be hard to come by when the "you know what" hits the fan, so another notch for the MoHo column in the continued deliberations.

I see some brilliant marketing opportunities here.

There are many types of apocalypse (besides the zombie-driven one). For example: the wildfire apocalypse in Fort MacMurray.
The evacuees that are enjoying relative comfort, security, and privacy are those who escaped with their RV and are cocooned in a nice campground. The rest are holed-up with friends, relatives, or worse (an army cot in a rec centre).

So, my advice to the OP: Be it MH or trailer, buy something before it's too late.

BTW Pharm, good point. Gas was an issue for those escaping Fort Mac.

[DaveFL]

No one has came back to your original post, DW wants class A...

Will she drive it? Does she do mechanics? Is she the main source of income? Does she give you an allowance and likes the run the show? If you can say no to most of the questions, then do your research and buy what you can handle financially, physically and mentally.
My daily driver couldn't pull a trailer of any size, so when you compare MH to trailers add cost of a large PU or SUV to haul it, plus the mpg cost over an economical daily drive.

I've never liked tents, did the 5 footitus over the yrs, Westfalia, Coachhouse, AS. Set minimum requirements each time and enjoyed them equally. Also didn't like the idea of pulling a trailer and having watched couples trying to park I still like MH, even if I have to pull a toad, with mirrors and rear camera I can park MH in much smaller spaces than a trailer by myself. DW will drive the toad when it is convenient, but not the MH.
Good Luck on your search.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by PharmGeek

I do not think we should joke about the zombie apocalypse! It is obviously real! As soon as you talk about it enough, 22 caliber ammo disappears from existence!

And because it should not be joked about...the gas mileage on the AS interstate is pretty amazing...gas could be hard to come by when the "you know what" hits the fan, so another notch for the MoHo column in the continued deliberations.

It looks like I will need to become part of a larger community of people prepared for survival.

Some tip's for the community to remember….


You can make a fire by vigorously rubbing elk together, Also beavers.* Rub those beavers.

You can make a signal fire by burning Celine Dion CDs.

There’s no need to be afraid of strange noises in the night. Anything that intends you harm will stalk you silently.

If you encounter a black bear, attempt to cross the road or distract it with rap music.

If you encounter a grizzly bear, attempt to punch it in the eye.* This will not scare the bear off, but you’re dead anyway so you don’t want to go out like a wus.

You can determine which direction is north by asking someone.*
Failing that, float a stick on a still body of water.* North will be the direction that is opposite of south.

Never make RIGHT turns when you’re lost in a forest.*Right turns attract left wing zombies.

Punch squirrels to vent your frustrations

Plant a garden.* Vegetables can sustain you if you plan on sitting still for the better part of a growing season, and
you have vegetable seeds handy.

If you brought a cow, milk it.


Bob

[mayco]

I really dont think its accurate to lump ALL motorhomes into the category of huge maintenence costs. Sure there are the huge $225,000+ rigs that require high dollar maintenance and repairs that break the bank but Airstream Classic class A rigs dont necessarily fall into that category. Just like a trailer, when you first purchase the rig there are varying degrees of repairs and maintenance items that are required to get the rig road worthy and suitable to individual wants and needs, but much of that depends how the rig has been maintained and used by previous owners. Just like any used vehicle. The majority of the Airstream Classic MOHOs are built on a GM chassis and from there on up is an Airstream with a motor. The systems and appliances are the same as a trailer and the exterior is much the same as any Airstream trailer. There are maintenence items that are unique but I havent found anything yet that I thought was outrageously expensive. Tires cost more but you have to replace tires on your tow vehicle AND trailer. You need to maintain the motor and chassis but you do the same on your tow vehicle. If you are lucky enough to own a Classic with the Isuzu or Cummins diesel then maintenance is reduced by a great deal. So I gues my point is that not all motorhomes are created equal, and its not accurate to assume that they are. The biggest difference that I see is the type of use. There are pros and cons to both trailers and motorhomes and its up to the individual to analyze what those are and decide what suits their needs. They ARE different. Personally I dont want to pull a trailer and have the possibility of a dedicated tow vehicle. Just my choice. So I think we need to be careful when giving advice to someone who is trying to make the choice between the two. We love our 310 Turbo Diesel and havent yet felt like the cost of renovation and maintenance has been sky high expensive. As always, the more you can do yourself the more money youll save and a great deal of these items can be performed by someone with pretty basic mechanical skills, or willing to learn.

Mike

[Isuzusweet]

Unless your name starts with "M", Mike being the only exception.

Stir the pot
Tony

[mayco]

/

[Ted S.]

Don't over think it. Opt for the Airstream and a new wife.

[PharmGeek]

Omg - this is hilarious

[robi]

I think the answer is, "It depends." My current Airstream is my second travel trailer. The first was also "unique and top", in it's class, similar size but an a frame, and a fraction of the cost. I spend about three months a year in it and tow it annually through some pretty difficult terrain throughout the U.S. Frankly, I think it comes down to towing and taste. The AS tows much better, and is just a joy aesthetically. As I proceed through treacherous winds and terrain, I see other folks struggling more with heftier towing vehicles. Appliances are basically all the same. During almost a decade of dealing with them, processing a warranty is a pain. Airstream is unwilling to intervene in this, the other company took care of it during the initial warranty period. Don't get me started on Zip Dee, a previous post. I had less issues with the other trailer with regard to leaks, integrity, etc. The biggest pain, aside from being skilled at replacing rivets, is the occasion that you have to work on the underbelly. Mine is a 2009, some of it is steel, some aluminum. You can't mix up repair materials as it is really corrosive, and it appears as if they did that at the factory from some of the enlarging holes around screws and rivets. Also, when you are on the road and need repairs, dealers are few and far between. Reputable non AS dealers are hesitant to work on them due to the uniqueness. Camping World will do it but rob you, so you should be handy. If you are just going to use the trailer for the occasional outing or cover a couple hundred miles a week, chances are, this will not be of any concern to you. All that being said, I am about to upgrade and by a second one. I love the experience of it. I am also foolish enough to own a Porsche, so that should tell you something. As far as trade in, I just got a response. About the same proportionately as I got selling my last one outright, but I am not going to go down that rabbit hole again. I find it like most luxury items, value is all in the eye of the beholder. I read a lot of posts on here about the disasters observed with other manufacturers. I think since demand and competition has increased, some of this has settled out. It is more expensive to process a warranty than just make simple improvements. In 10,000 to 15,000 miles a year, I rarely find someone that now has the typical disasters of the past, and they are pretty happy with their corrugated cupboards and expanding footprints. More and more, I get, "Why would you spend that much?

[Plasma800]

You mean like this?

https://youtu.be/70WPOaWZQZI

Originally Posted by Loden

I have been all over the map on this. We have had two different motor homes and towed small cars across the country to provide transportation when we got somewhere. Before that, we started with a tent, moved up to a tent-camper, small travel trailer, etc. After decades of experience, we settled on and are delighted to be pulling an Airstream 27' Eddie Bauer.

The difference, in our experience, is whether one wants to be "camping" or have, quite literally, a house with all the relative luxuries of a nice house. On the road, traveling with the Airstream is a dream. Yes, as the prime driver, I am aware that we are now 47' long, but other than that, driving is a pleasant experience. Traveling in a class-A MH towing a car is akin to driving an 18 wheeler, or a bus. There is little room for error and in urban areas, it was a form of torture. Backing (with a towed car) was something close to impossible. It could be done, but was a truly major challenge. Getting that MH and towed vehicle into a fueling station was one of the more significant challenges.

The big plus to a motorhome is that people other than the driver can move about, prepare food, lay down, etc. That is indeed a big plus if strapped-in safety is not a concern. One of the most important issues that converted us from motorhomes to Airstream was the death of a friend in a motorhome accident. Tires do blow out. If you lose a front tire in a class-A motorhome, you WILL lose steering control. If you blow the left front tire, you will be crossing into ongoing traffic. Our friends had that happen in a motorhome with tires less than three years old while on a two-lane highway. Another class-A was headed the other way on the highway. Since he was drifting left with a full right-hand input into the steering, he swung left to cross ahead of the oncoming traffic. They sideswiped, and his wife/passenger was killed by flying debris. Anyone not strapped down would have been severely injured. Note that we acted from anecdotal information. The only study I could find suggested that the deaths per million miles traveled in a class-A were about 1/3 that of overall traffic deaths. Of course, the deaths per million miles in a 3/4 ton pickup are also very low! The bigger the vehicle, the lower the death rate. When deaths did occur, they were overwhelmingly collisions at highway speeds with other large vehicles (probably head-on).

Last, but certainly not least, the maintenance and breakdown time and expense using a heavy-duty pickup and an Airstream are minimal. If you intend to keep the motor home for a decade or more, and given the depreciation, I suggest you do plan on that, you are going to see the maintenance and repair costs rise exponentially. Large motorhomes are like aircraft in that you will need to exercise that vehicle regularly or it will turn into a maintenance nightmare.

[Loden]

@Plasma800: Indeed. Losing a front tire on a Class-A at highway speeds is almost certainly catastrophic. The feds do not regulate the issue of Class-A controllability in a front tire blowout, so the manufacturers knowingly make them in such a manner that they are uncontrollable in that situation. How do I know? Said friend got a very large settlement from the motorhome manufacturer. Turns out that there were engineering memos warning that in the event of a front tire blowout at highway speed the vehicle could not be controlled.

Contrast that with the NHTSA regulations on automobiles and light trucks (including pickups) which mandate that the vehicle must remain capable of being controlled to remain in a single lane, even with its fully rated towing load, in the event of a front-tire blowout.

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by Loden

@Plasma800: Indeed. Losing a front tire on a Class-A at highway speeds is almost certainly catastrophic. The feds do not regulate the issue of Class-A controllability in a front tire blowout, so the manufacturers knowingly make them in such a manner that they are uncontrollable in that situation. How do I know? Said friend got a very large settlement from the motorhome manufacturer. Turns out that there were engineering memos warning that in the event of a front tire blowout at highway speed the vehicle could not be controlled.

Contrast that with the NHTSA regulations on automobiles and light trucks (including pickups) which mandate that the vehicle must remain capable of being controlled to remain in a single lane, even with its fully rated towing load, in the event of a front-tire blowout.

It is a shame that said friend did not post the information about those e mails for the benefit of other and maybe get the lead out at the manufactures.

[Isuzusweet]

Surprisinly enough, the first thing to do when experiencing a front end blow out is to accelerate hard to maintain control, then let your foot of the gas and light brake to stop.

Cheers
Tony

[Loden]

Originally Posted by HowieE

It is a shame that said friend did not post the information about those e mails for the benefit of other and maybe get the lead out at the manufacturers.

If you are familiar with the terms of civil litigation settlements, he is forbidden from publishing the results as a prerequisite for receiving the compensation. He told me the law firm he used specializes in this area and does quite a number of them each year. He also said the attorney compared it to the movie, Fight Club, in that the Class A manufacturers have calculated the cost of paying compensation versus fixing the problem and have concluded that compensation is less expensive.

[Fly at Night]

Without seeing that video - I just did not get a good gut feeling when I first plunked myself into the seat of a MH. Rather, "I would probably kill myself in this thing."

So, went for a trailer because I was familiar and experienced with the F150.. Then I went for an Airstream because of the low-level, safer to tow profile.
However, that did not make me smug and careless. I seldom go "highway speed" when trailering. How fast was he going? (The Class A while pulling a toad).

[windfallsp]

While I agree that moho manufacturers should try to minimize the effects of front tire blowouts, there are actions the owner can take to prevent/mitigate the problem. To wit: 1. inspect tires carefully before each trip; 2. keep tires properly inflated; invest in a tire pressure/temperature monitoring system; 3. replace tires (even if not showing tread wear) based on the DOT coded date of manufacture; 4. invest in a good steering control system (e.g., Safe-T-Plus); 5. regularly inspect/replace shocks/air bags; 6. if towing, invest in a good supplemental brake system for the toad and use it.

And don't forget that blowouts occur in trailers, too. ;-)

[Loden]

Originally Posted by Fly at Night

Without seeing that video - I just did not get a good gut feeling when I first plunked myself into the seat of a MH. Rather, "I would probably kill myself in this thing."

So, went for a trailer because I was familiar and experienced with the F150.. Then I went for an Airstream because of the low-level, safer to tow profile.
However, that did not make me smug and careless. I seldom go "highway speed" when trailering. How fast was he going? (The Class A while pulling a toad).

He was traveling at about 50-55 MPH on a relatively narrow road in the mountains of northern New Mexico.

- For whatever it is worth, in the discovery phase of the litigation documents emerged that indicated a typical Class-A would be uncontrollable with or without the application of the brakes; however, brake application would exacerbate the turn in the direction of the blown tire.

He told me that the initial pull from the blown tire before he could turn right took him over the centerline and he was unable to get back in his lane with full right wheel input. He said he did accelerate in an attempt to gain control but that it only resulted in increased speed and no movement to the right. That is when he elected to go with the pull and attempt to cross ahead of the oncoming Class A MH.

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by Olustee bus

I am an accountant (retired) and I am a cheapskate. I am really interested in an airstream for our first camper. My wife, influenced by close friends, is interested in a new MH. We will be traveling with those friends.

I really like the idea of not losing 25 percent of value in the first year and another 15 percent the next year.

Is an airstream more financially wise than a MH?

It would probably require me to get a new or newer truck but I need one and I can finance it. Mine is a 2004 with 130000 miles.

I will be asking more questions on this post as I learn more.

What is your opinion on an airstream versus class A motorhome?

Thanks

I had six various Airstreams over twenty years... from a '62 Bambi 16' to a '94 34' tri-axle. I've had an Airstream 325 motorhome. I sold my last Airstream and bought a Bigfoot 25' fiberglass camper and pickup, and had those for nine years. And i've had two Born Free motorhomes, one on an E450 chassis a few years ago, and my current Born Free 32 RQ is a Super-C on a Chevy Kodiak chassis.

I've also had two camper vans, an Airstream B-190 and now a Coachmen 190.

First, let me address your "cheap" side. The total cost of ownership of any RV depends on how much you pay for it, what the money costs you in interest, what the total depreciation is, operating and repair expenses, storage fees, license and registration fees, and insurance costs. You really need to consider ALL of these expenses when making a meaningful comparison between RVs... and you can actually come up with a pretty close total cost of ownership estimate to compare units that way. Don't get involved in the "fuel costs" debates. Unless you're on the road as a full-timer, you'll likely drive whatever RV you have less than 5,000 miles a year. That makes the fuel expenses for all of them pretty insignificant in the total cost of ownership, and it usually pales in comparison to annual depreciation.

Here's what I've learned about traveling with a trailer vs. traveling with a motorhome:

Each has benefits. What you need to consider is HOW you travel. If you go from place to place and stay for a week or so, a trailer works well. If, like me, you travel and seldom spend more than a night or two in one place, or you visit friends or relatives frequently, towing a trailer gets to be a real hassle hitching and unhitching and all of the things that go with that. Traveling in a motorhome is more simple; even towing a car.

I found that the total cost of ownership of the motorhome I bought is actually less than that of having the pickup and trailer I had, it's more convenient, and frankly, is more comfortable. I have a 7kw generator that allows me to be comfortable when traveling and staying in places other than campgrounds which I do frequently (saving as much as $70/night.)

And the maintenance on the Super-C Kodiak chassis is about the same as maintaining a dually 1-ton truck, and the mechanic I use to work on my cars does all the work on the Kodiak for me. It's actually easier to service than most cars because of its tip-forward hood and removable fender wells.

I echo the sentiments of other posters who advise to "never buy new." The motorhome I bought lost over $110k to depreciation in nine years before I bought it for a very reasonable sum with only 32,000 miles on it. It needed new tires and shocks, and some chassis work, but it was still a steal. I actually have less in it than I had in my Y2K Excursion and the '94 tri-axle 34' two-door and I bought those both used.

A Super-C has all of the amenities of a Class A with almost none of the problems, and my Born Free requires substantially less maintenance than any current model Airstream.

So, that's my assessment, and how I've gotten to where I am today.

[J. Morgan]

My take.

A class A = a lot more space, for hauling around mostly more stuff that you wont need or use.

A class A = no need for a separate tow vehicle! This is way cool! Except that you will want to have a smaller vehicle to drive around in, so you will need to tow a vehicle behind the motorhome.

I guess I am bias, but I have used a class A, that is why I am a trailer guy.


Superat stultitia.

[PKI]

Looked at this question from a different perspective. RV park full of Mohos, trailers and two ASs. The other folks were all having fun too. There was a guy who went from a toy hauler to a Moho to a fifth wheel to a 24ft tow behind. He had an opinion. We all do.

People like what they can fit into their budget and enjoy.

Establish what you define to be reasonable and go shopping. Learn enough about the market to understand what it costs to maintain, store and travel where you want to go.

If your friends have Mohos, that may be the way you can best enjoy the lifestyle. But several folks here have commented that there are a lot of ways to have a Moho. One campground had a group staying. The Mohos varied from $$ to $$$$$$$ and all were enjoying the lifestyle.

Understand what the wife wants and why. Then see how best to address.

The storage building that keeps Glimmer dry also houses a large number of Mohos. The lady that helps us there sold theirs this year. Things change. You will too. Figure out what you need to do now.

Travel safe. Pat