What to do when there is no sewage hookup?

[perryg114]

Those portable tanks can be a nuisance to everyone in the park when they are pulled behind a tow vehicle on pavement. Nothing short of a straight piped Harley makes more noise than those things towed on pavement with the hard plastic wheels. One afternoon at St Joe it was non-stop. This one guy in a grayhound bus thing emptied his twice in a row. Since the campground was a one way loop, it went on for a while. There was a tank dump station at one of the bathrooms but no one used that. They either did not know it was there or they were too lazy.

They need to put rubber wheels on those things.

Perry

[Smokin Camel]

Originally Posted by robwok

My 64 came with these great instructions: you dig a hole, then put a plywood half sheet with a hole in it on top of the hole, then use some of the extra dirt from the hole to hold the board down. Then you backup over the hole, and fish your slinky into the hole cut in the plywood. It's now directly under your black tank. Put a couple random coolers around and nobody's the wiser. Yeah, yeah, it's illegal in most places, but the simplicity is so appealing.

As long as it is so appealing!

Actually I couldn't resist that line. I really am not meaning to flame your post, but you are advocating breaking the law in my state, and most other states. There are supposedly some areas where I have been told (do not know for sure) it can still be done---I suspect BLM land or something, though they may require that you hold a state license.

Be aware of the potential consequences! At least put some quick lime in it to pH 12, that will at least show concern about pathogens and may inspire some mercy from a regulator, warden or zoning administrator.

In Wisconsin....I am doing this based on a three year old bond schedule---all I have at home! so add a bit to this.

One time and caught-----

1. citation ch. nr 113.07 illegal disposal method $803
2. citation ch. nr 113.07 several other potentials--distance to treatment etc plant, non-approved site, and one or two others $803 ea.
3. citation ch. nr 113.04, failure to have vehicle/tank insp. $803
4. citation ch. nr 113.05, failure to have/display license on vehicle $507
5. citation ch. nr 113.06, insp & servicing of vehicle, $507
6. citation ch. nr 113.08 no site evaluation $507
7. citation ch. nr 113.09 violation of application rates $ 803
8. citation ch. nr 113.11 records $803
9. referral to Dept Justice (independent of the long list above), failure to have operators certificate, ch. nr 114, sec 2, enforced ss 281 $5000

Now the interesting part, if I can prove it was intentional (criminal version) that can add considerable. If the hole extends into the upper limits of ground waters....civil version $10,000/day, criminal version $25000 and/or 6 months imprisonment/ day of violation.

check to see if coyote dumping is legal, it is in some areas---not in Wisconsin. By the way EPA would like us to toughen up ch. nr 113 to get it more in line with cfr 40, pt 503 and the codes of many other states.

I am not saying that a judge would throw the book at you for all of the above, but my experience is that it will cost you a couple of grand. There is still the county nuisance and health ordinances. I will add that only twice in my career have I gone criminal (yes there was 6 months of time) on wastewater charges. The most citations I have ever issued at one time was $5400, I felt a bit bad about it as it was a friend. Fortunately he did understand....didn't like it, but understood. Yes we still speak and are still friends. Regulators are like cops that enforce technical law.

Please be careful to point out that there are consequences to coyote dumping--if you are caught.

[doug&maggie]

I remember several years ago a story out of Chicago, where a tour bus dumped their tanks over the Chicago river----just as a tour boat filled with visitors to the Windy City was passing underneath.

A true story.

I recall there was a very hefty fine to the offenders for illegal dumping.


Maggie

[Ray Eklund]

A trip to a Peruvian restroom facility away in a small community will adjust ones thinking about using a campground dry or wet restroom facility in the USA. Especially when you must "tip" the guardian of the hole in the floor or peeing into a galvanized trough for a bit of toilet paper. The foot prints embossed or painted onto the concrete indicate where to do aim your business for the "newbie" tourist.

Wear flip flops in the shower. If you are worried about someone seeing your naked body drying off, dry off in the shower stall.

Odor will not infect you with a disease in an outdoor facility, although modern outdoor restrooms are very well designed for venting air. Holding your breath only makes the first gasp for air a major mistake using that strategy. Just do your business and as stated earlier, wash your hands if infection is a worry. Wipe down the stool lid before using it. It is no dirtier than yours at home. The old story about yours does not stink compared to others is a worn out story. I find the out door privy a blessing to many options to be found for disposing of one's own waste. As they say to American tourists in Australia when they cannot handle the outback primitive conditions... "toughen up Princess". You will toughen up and you will make the adjustment without any difficulty, after overcoming the inhibitions that seem a bit awkward at the beginning...

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by Smokin Camel

One time and caught----

1. citation ch. nr 113.07 illegal disposal method $803
2. citation ch. nr 113.07 several other potentials--distance to treatment etc plant, non-approved site, and one or two others $803 ea.
3. citation ch. nr 113.04, failure to have vehicle/tank insp. $803
4. citation ch. nr 113.05, failure to have/display license on vehicle $507
5. citation ch. nr 113.06, insp & servicing of vehicle, $507
6. citation ch. nr 113.08 no site evaluation $507
7. citation ch. nr 113.09 violation of application rates $ 803
8. citation ch. nr 113.11 records $803
9. referral to Dept Justice (independent of the long list above), failure to have operators certificate, ch. nr 114, sec 2, enforced ss 281 $5000

Now the interesting part, if I can prove it was intentional (criminal version) that can add considerable. If the hole extends into the upper limits of ground waters....civil version $10,000/day, criminal version $25000 and/or 6 months imprisonment/ day of violation.

One of the specifications against King George in the Declaration of Independence was,

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

And King George didn't even have an EPA. . .

.

[Smokin Camel]

Originally Posted by doug&maggie

I remember several years ago a story out of Chicago, where a tour bus dumped their tanks over the Chicago river----just as a tour boat filled with visitors to the Windy City was passing underneath.

A true story.

I recall there was a very hefty fine to the offenders for illegal dumping.


Maggie

I do not know the incident but based on what is in the post.

Statutory violation of the Clean Water Act. Can be enforced by Fed or by Il EPA. (discharging w/o a NPDES or state permit)

Typical civil version about $10,000 + investigative and administrative costs.

The criminal version (proof of intent) about $25,000 and/or 6 mo.

Those would be typical, so your recall of a hefty fine is correct. There were probably civil actions as well. Illinois has some similar citations that may have been tacked on as well. By the way--a criminal version--one may not use company funds for either defense or for paying the forfeiture.

Good recall

[Smokin Camel]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

One of the specifications against King George in the Declaration of Independence was,


And King George didn't even have an EPA. . .

.

Anti regulatory is an "in thing now"

Imagine, something as novel as public health laws or preventing someone from polluting waters for their own benefit, water that belongs to everyone!

Read history about public and environmental health laws before you rail that position. Better yet live downstream or near a major polluter. I hear lots are cheap near the old Love Canal.

[zlee]

People are always against being regulated - but insist on being regulated for!

[ROBERT CROSS]

Are there any dump stations in Wash....never mind.

Bob

[noreen]

Originally Posted by Smokin Camel

As long as it is so appealing!

Actually I couldn't resist that line. I really am not meaning to flame your post, but you are advocating breaking the law in my state, and most other states. There are supposedly some areas where I have been told (do not know for sure) it can still be done---I suspect BLM land or something, though they may require that you hold a state license.

Be aware of the potential consequences! At least put some quick lime in it to pH 12, that will at least show concern about pathogens and may inspire some mercy from a regulator, warden or zoning administrator.

In Wisconsin....I am doing this based on a three year old bond schedule---all I have at home! so add a bit to this.

One time and caught-----

1. citation ch. nr 113.07 illegal disposal method $803
2. citation ch. nr 113.07 several other potentials--distance to treatment etc plant, non-approved site, and one or two others $803 ea.
3. citation ch. nr 113.04, failure to have vehicle/tank insp. $803
4. citation ch. nr 113.05, failure to have/display license on vehicle $507
5. citation ch. nr 113.06, insp & servicing of vehicle, $507
6. citation ch. nr 113.08 no site evaluation $507
7. citation ch. nr 113.09 violation of application rates $ 803
8. citation ch. nr 113.11 records $803
9. referral to Dept Justice (independent of the long list above), failure to have operators certificate, ch. nr 114, sec 2, enforced ss 281 $5000

Now the interesting part, if I can prove it was intentional (criminal version) that can add considerable. If the hole extends into the upper limits of ground waters....civil version $10,000/day, criminal version $25000 and/or 6 months imprisonment/ day of violation.

check to see if coyote dumping is legal, it is in some areas---not in Wisconsin. By the way EPA would like us to toughen up ch. nr 113 to get it more in line with cfr 40, pt 503 and the codes of many other states.

I am not saying that a judge would throw the book at you for all of the above, but my experience is that it will cost you a couple of grand. There is still the county nuisance and health ordinances. I will add that only twice in my career have I gone criminal (yes there was 6 months of time) on wastewater charges. The most citations I have ever issued at one time was $5400, I felt a bit bad about it as it was a friend. Fortunately he did understand....didn't like it, but understood. Yes we still speak and are still friends. Regulators are like cops that enforce technical law.

Please be careful to point out that there are consequences to coyote dumping--if you are caught.

Im glad your not my "friend". Sal.

[jdalrymple]

In response to the OP, have you looked at a macerator pump?

If there is any kind of sanitary sewer access, even just a small clean out or maybe a manhole, a pump may be the option.

They grind and pump black tank contents a good distance via a standard garden hose.

Good Luck, I hope things go well for your family.

Best Regards,