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05-31-2016, 06:34 PM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
2013 30' Classic
Kent
, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 366
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The Geo Method - Black and Gray Water Tank Maintenance
Just saw this video about using the Geo Method to get rid of black water tank smells, and to maintain both the black and the gray tank.
The Geo Method (don't know why it's called that) is basically using water softener, laundry detergent, and chlorine bleach.
https://sites.google.com/site/cbruni/
Anyone here use the Geo method.
Here is the video:
__________________
Yolanda (and Phil)
2013 30' Classic Limited
2015 GMC Sierra Denali 2500HD
ProPride 3P Trailer Sway Control Hitch
WBCCI #7878
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05-31-2016, 06:54 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
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I have been using this method off and on for a couple of years now. There are several threads discussing it.
__________________
MICHAEL
Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
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05-31-2016, 08:22 PM
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#3
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Makes sense.
Calgon water softener doesn't actually soften water— the suspended calcium salts in the water are still there— but the Calgon does keep those salts in suspension and prevents them from precipitating out onto surfaces. Not really needed unless you have hard water.
Dish soap reduces water surface tension and allows the water to soak into cracks and pores in materials that it otherwise wouldn't, including into solid wastes. This helps the wastes to break down into smaller particles for easier discharge, same way it helps remove food particles from dinnerware and dirt from clothing.
Bleach kills microorganisms, including the aerobic and/or anaerobic bacteria that break down solid waste, so decomposition doesn't happen in the black tank. No decomposition, no smell. The waste will eventually decompose— after it's dumped into a septic tank or municipal sewer system and the bleach is diluted to the point that microbes can live in the wastewater. But the waste doesn't have to decompose inside the black tank before you dump it.
I haven't (yet) traveled to many places that have hard water problems, except southwest Oklahoma where my kid brother lives, so I generally skip the Calgon. But the dish soap and the bleach definitely get used.
I formerly used the enzyme treatment packs for the black tank, until I realized that they are an aid to decomposition and it's better if the waste only dissolves, not decomposes, in the black tank. So now I use the bleach instead to prevent decomposition and rely on the dish soap to dissolve the waste.
Besides, in terms of cost, Dawn and Clorox are both cheap, and there's no point literally throwing money down the drain by buying more expensive tank treatments.
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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05-31-2016, 08:45 PM
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#4
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4 Rivet Member
2013 30' Classic
Kent
, Washington
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 366
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Thanks Protagonist, that was very helpful. Very interesting set of facts. We have soft water here in Seattle area. But of course as we travel to different locations we may experience different water types.
We've always thrown the little packets down the toilet and so far we haven't had a "smell" problem. But I like the idea of using this method, seems cleaner.
Time to buy Dawn and Clorox and start using this method.
__________________
Yolanda (and Phil)
2013 30' Classic Limited
2015 GMC Sierra Denali 2500HD
ProPride 3P Trailer Sway Control Hitch
WBCCI #7878
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05-31-2016, 10:27 PM
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#5
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Rivet Master
2015 30' FB FC Bunk
Ayer
, Massachusetts
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,114
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The Geo Method has been around a long time. You can find many threads on many RV forums.
I use Pure Blue Power. Keep going back to it. Use what you like, but stick with it. I think a lot of issues come from just plain neglect.
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06-01-2016, 02:07 PM
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#6
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4 Rivet Member
2011 27 FB International
Tucson
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 258
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I'm surprised that this hasn't been mentioned (that I've seen) in any of the tank treatment threads. For over 20 years, as devotees of the simpler is best theory, we've used Pine-Sol. It has a soap component and a surficant plus a pleasant smell. After we dump the tanks, we add a couple of gallons of water to the black tank and about two cups of Pine-Sol and splash about half a cup in the Lav and Galley sinks. We've never had a smell since we started with the Pine-Sol, plus you can use it as a general cleaner for all hard surfaces in the trailer (think grease splatters around the stove) and diluted as a no-rinse cleaner for the floors.
Just my 2-cents worth, YMMV.
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06-01-2016, 02:34 PM
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#7
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Rivet Master
1990 25' Excella
Sisters
, Oregon
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
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We've evidently been doing this unknowingly for some time now. Our greatest limitation for dry camping, which we do a lot of, is the gray water. So we use a basin in the sink in the kitchen and periodically dump it in the toilet. I guess that takes care of the dish soap. I haven't used any bleach yet and will add that moving forward. No odor in the three years we have owned the trailer.
__________________
John Audette
Air Cooled Porsche Specialist -
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I took the one less traveled. ~ Robert Frost
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06-01-2016, 02:43 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
2012 23' FB International
Woodstock
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,423
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Protagonist nailed it
Calgon water softener is probably Sodium Carbonate (which is the good old fashioned washing soda used by women a century ago to counteract hard well water). The use of bleach is for me problematic, but as protagonist points out, it essentially kills bacteria and that stops decomposition, and thus smell.
For years we have been told not to use formaldehyde containing product since it interferes with septic tanks. Any one on a septic tank knows using bleach in excess will kill the good bacteria that reduce waste in the septic system. So while it works, you are possibly just passing your problem on to the park system. I have found the enzyme product pretty effective and I don't have that "RV smell" anymore either.
JCW
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06-01-2016, 04:57 PM
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#9
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4 Rivet Member
2008 31' Classic
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Lenoir City
, Tennessee
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 264
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I'm glad this was brought back up again as a topic. I saw it several years ago then completely forgot about it.
Our problem is not the black tank but really bad odors from the grey tank. I mean really strong. I couldn't figure out why. Recently, I put a clear attachment on the dump hose and released the grey water. I was shocked to see that, in spite of my best efforts to filter what went into the grey tank, that obviously bits of food, etc. had made it into the tank and over time had not flushed out. That instead I was conducting a chemistry experiment in my grey tank based on the "growth" of what appeared to be mold type looking stuff. Just like what we used to grow on old bread in high school science lab. Even though I completely dump my grey tank and use the store-bought packets to treat it. So, I'm going to try this method in both tanks and see where I get.
__________________
Kelly & Matt
WBCCI - #4335
2005 Diesel Excursion
2008 31' Custom Classic "Moonshine"
2016 Interstate "BugOut"
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06-01-2016, 09:52 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
South East
, Michigan
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 546
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Calgon Water Softener contains the active ingredients zeolite and polycarboxylate. It is not the same as "good old washing soda". Washing soda is a precipitating chemical. It was cause the hard water solidify. This can cause a coating on stuff and can make clothes actually feel rough. Calgon and similar products, are non-precipitating, and keep the minerals in solution. Originally, Calgon was made ofpowdered sodium hexametaphosphate (amorphous sodium polyphosphate). The change in formula was made for the same reasons they are removing phosphates from fertilizer.
My problem with the Geo Method is that powdered Calgon seems to only be available on Amazon and as of today, was $55 for 2 40 ounce boxes. Putting 16 ounces of the stuff into the tank per treatment makes this a rather pricey proposition.
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06-01-2016, 10:05 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
South East
, Michigan
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 546
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I should note that the recommendation for POWDERED Calgon came from what I think is the "Official" Geo-Method site: https://sites.google.com/site/cbruni/
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06-01-2016, 10:53 PM
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#12
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4 Rivet Member
2011 27 FB International
Tucson
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 258
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Really strong odors from your grey tank means that you aren't using Pine-Sol and that your Grey Tank "Vent, V200, Automatic," P/N 600538 is stuck. It's a $4 or $5 part at any plumbing store. It's mounted on the drain hardware under the sink.
Here's what it looks like:
https://www.ferguson.com/product/pro...FQ-raQodUDwDiw
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06-03-2016, 09:23 AM
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#13
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4 Rivet Member
2008 31' Classic
2016 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Lenoir City
, Tennessee
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 264
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If you look at the video in the first post on this thread you'll see that the guy uses only liquid products - he doesn't have to dissolve anything - which appears much easier to me.
I can already see from watching his video that I have not been putting enough water back in my tanks after dumping them. I've put some, but not the number of bowls full that he has been using.
__________________
Kelly & Matt
WBCCI - #4335
2005 Diesel Excursion
2008 31' Custom Classic "Moonshine"
2016 Interstate "BugOut"
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06-03-2016, 09:53 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1994 30' Excella
alexandria
, Kentucky
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,310
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Last summer we had a terrible problem with odors especially when on the road. When you opened the door the smell could knock you over.
I used the Pine-sol (original - it is a disinfectant) and Walgreens bath beads receipe and all the odors went away quickly! The black tank looked brand new after dumping and not one smell. It seemed that the RV tank stuff purchased at Wally world was worthless.
http://www.ncfcrv.org/calgon.pdf
__________________
Steve, Christy, Anna and Phoebe (Border Collie)
1994 Classic 30'11" Excella - rear twin
2009 Dodge 2500, 6 Speed Auto, CTD, Quad Cab, Short Bed
Hensley Arrow hitch with adjustable stinger
WBCCI # 3072
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06-03-2016, 10:33 AM
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#15
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2 Rivet Member
Briarcliff
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 85
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Pine-Sol.................GAG!
WAAAYYYY to strong of a smell for me.
Eco approach works great.
You know what they say folks - the sense of smell is the first to go from getting old!
Like folks having 28 "air fresheners" all over the house, in vehicles and use those "fragrant" dryer sheets and use gallons of FeBreze...............then wear quarts of cologne and perfume.
GAG!
__________________
1966 T-27 Avion (Sold & missed)
2022 Escape 19
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06-03-2016, 10:42 AM
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#16
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Figment of My Imagination
2012 Interstate Coach
From All Over
, More Than Anywhere Else
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7GenTex
Eco approach works great.
You know what they say folks - the sense of smell is the first to go from getting old!
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I don't remember anyone ever saying that before.
However, I have learned from way back when I was just six years old— with a weekend job herding cattle in and out of an auction ring at the local stockyards— if you can get past the first three minutes of any smell, you start to get used to it because your scent receptors get desensitized from constant exposure. At least until the next time you're exposed to it after being away from the smell for a while, when you have to get past the first three minutes again. That lesson was reinforced in my teenage years working at a service station around gasoline fumes, and later still working around creosote and hot asphalt at the Corps of Engineers.
The first thing to go is your memory. As in, "When the memory goes, you can just forget it!"
__________________
I thought getting old would take longer!
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06-08-2016, 07:17 AM
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#17
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Rivet Master
2017 27' Flying Cloud
Chillicothe
, Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 510
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Pine-sol ... Was my Moms cleaner of choice.
Signed
Child of the 50/60s
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
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06-09-2016, 07:52 AM
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#18
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Rivet Master
2012 23' FB International
Woodstock
, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,423
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Pine-sol probably has antiseptic properties. Many years ago we used Pine-sol in dish washing rinse water at Scout Camp for the same reason we now require a bleach rinse. At least Chlorine evaporates. Pine-sol ingredients stick around. But if it works for some in their waste tanks, it's at least better than formaldehyde and smells better too.
JCW
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06-18-2016, 03:59 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1987 32' Excella
Nepean
, Ontario
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,414
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Pinesol also contains pine oil. I used just Pinesol years ago, and then when had the tanks cleaned in my '94 LY moho, I was told to use an enzyme-type product. I did so, but last year the waste tank in my Excella "impacted" (the nice word for totally blocked). After spending $$$ to have a clean-out service use a power washer for over 2 hours to break out the solidified, concrete-like, waste, they recommended making up the following concoction which works well: in a gallon jug, pour in a 48-oz bottle of Pinesol, dilute it with 48-oz of water and toss in a cup of Calgon bath beads. Actually, you have to be very careful and add the Calgon v-e-r-y slowly as it foams right up. The treatment is 8-oz of this mixture in the waste tank after every dump, and I also put 4-oz into the wash tank. This mixture also lubricates the valves.
__________________
VE3JDZ
AIR 12148
1987 Excella 32-foot
1999 Dodge Ram 2500HD Diesel
WBCCI 8080
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04-10-2017, 01:58 PM
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#20
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1 Rivet Member
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 14
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Basic Geo
We have used the GEO method for about 2 years, we live and travel fulltime in our AS. We simply use the liquid Calgon, available at Walmart for $6 in small size white plastic jug, about 2 or 3 caps per tank, added periodically as the tank fills, the Sun brand [Tropical breeze smells great, also good for cleaning toilet bowl] or other cheap liquid washing machine soap. About two caps or so per tank, added periodically, good to suds it up a bit. Then an occasional shot of bleach. We use the bleach sparingly as the AS Factory says it can harm the tank seals. Calgon and soap in the gray tank occasionally. [ AlSO: Remember for those that have them, run that internal sprayer in the tank every time you dump. ]
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