Newer is Not Necessarily an Upgrade

[J. Morgan]

Training is not going to keep an employee from hiding a series of screw ups to the effect of saving his or her job.

This is reality. A good boss who builds a good relationship with his employees can greatly reduce these occurrences, but not stop them.

Sometimes people will hide things even when no one would be angry with them. This is part of group dynamics.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[J. Morgan]

Oh, i totally agree with you about companies not really giving a damn about the long term.

This has much to do with the hired gun style of management where when things turn bad management retires and leaves the mess for the next guy, and so on, and so on, and so on...... Until at the end of the line the company comes to the taxpayer for a bail out because of their run of "bad luck ".... (at which point management gets a bonus)


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[Larry C]

Originally Posted by Birdmaestro

I have an old (not vintage, old) 1990 25' Excella that my wife and I have fallen in love with. A few months ago I was looking at someones 2013 something or other and he made the off-handed comment, "When you're ready to upgrade...". It was a well intended comment but the inherent assumption was set in concrete: newer is an upgrade.

It ain't necessarily so Joe. I like my old used trailer better than I like new ones. I don't want a new one. It would be a downgrade for me personally to trade for a newer one.

Nothing at all against the newer ones - they're beautiful and shiny and I really like them. I just like my old homely and not-so-shiny one better. Now something from the 60's, that would be an upgrade.
Poppy

I couldn't agree more, over the years, we've owned three Airstreams, (all 30 footers). Over a period of a couple years, we gradually get them to the point of being very comfortable for us. Then, it seems the we (usually me) get bored without something to do, so we sell it and buy another one.
It's fun to see the new ones, then incorporate some of the new ideas into our "old" one....
Larry

[Larry C]

Originally Posted by Taylormade

Perhaps you could staple $60k to the walls and call it an upgrade

I kiiid I kiiiiid. I'm sure he meant nothing by it but I can certainly see where it could rub you the wrong way.

I've run into a few people with newer Airstreams that have been snobbish but far more that have loved talking about my renovated '78 and taking the tour. It's the few snobs that give Airstreamers a bad name as elitists. Don't let them get you down though.

For whatever it's worth, that exactly why we cancelled our membership in Wally's Club. The chapter we were involved with, got to the point, where, unless you were one of the "selected few", you were treated very badly, to the point of being insulted.
After a year of that we were done.....
We still like the Airstreams, and will continue to, but enough is enough.
For whatever it's worth.
Larry

[xrvr]

I find the only thing not upgraded are the new AS owners. Many lack the common sense and life experiences of new owners of a different era. AS is catering to these new owners and hence the decline in quality and common sense in the building of the units. All the shiny and electronic junk on the new units grab these new owners and get them to buy. The trailers have declined in quality as have the new owners. I know, I am just a fossil, but I believe this is true. Many of you will agree, but few will admit it. Not meant to insult any individuals, just the younger generations in general. No fault of their own, we raised them to be the way they are! Jim

[Larry C]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

I was overtly mocked last summer by a man pulling a newish Bambi with his green Honda Pilot last summer as I was leaving on my first trip out.... By yelling across the fuel island.....

I hadn't done anything to the outside of the trailer at this point so it was a little ugly..... I knew it was ugly outside but I didn't much care that I. Was pulling an ugly trailer. My guess is that this guy wouldn't be caught dead pulling an ugly trailer. My trailer was quite comfortable inside, that is what mattered to me.

I wonder if this guy is a forum member?

My observation is that in general, that the new AS people and the old AS people are cut from different cloth. If one is better than the other, well this depends on the individual not their choice in the vintage of trailers.

Anyway IMO a big factor in whether the AS made today will live to get old will be impeded by the needless complexity that will be difficult to maintain. I.e. electric toilets, computer controlled appliances, etc. Does your oven really need a computer?

Usually, when I meet somebody like you have descibed, I ask myself, "is this A**H***, trying to impress me, or himself?"
Some people have low esteme, that is their problem, not mine...

For whatever it's worth.

Larry

[J. Morgan]

Most of the time these days I just let stuff like that go..... simply resting on the the 99 to 1 odds that I could own this shallow person in a "discussion"..


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[dkrug]

Wow. Who knew you had to have an older Airstream to be "cool".
I have found most AS folks to be just regular people. Some can be hard to take, but no more so than the general population.

[J. Morgan]

There are snobs on both sides of that line.

There are a lot of folks on the vintage side that look down on the Sovereigns that I own and like.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[Taylormade]

Originally Posted by Larry C

For whatever it's worth, that exactly why we cancelled our membership in Wally's Club. The chapter we were involved with, got to the point, where, unless you were one of the "selected few", you were treated very badly, to the point of being insulted.
After a year of that we were done.....
We still like the Airstreams, and will continue to, but enough is enough.
For whatever it's worth.
Larry

Sad, but unfortunately true. While I've never been a member of the "club", I've met more than my share of folks with newer Airstreams across the southeast who've attempted to assert their affluence over me and my poor 78.

My favorite was a recently retired couple in a 16' Bambi who spouted off a constant stream of self congratulations and arrogance while showing pity for the guy with the shiny, but old, 31' monstrosity.

Of note, I find the annoying ones to be typically baby boomers (ducking as I type this). The older (65-80) crowd typically respects and loves checking out the restored Sovereign, while the 55-65 group tends to be the "proud", shall we say, group.

I laugh it off in any case and am perfectly content with my "vintage" baby. I get why membership in the WBCCI is down, though.

[PharmGeek]

meh, I am age 31...I went to canopener this year and met folks of various ages...and I have a few friends who are interested in AS...they are quite critical thinking and prepared individuals...none just saw a shiny object and took "hook line and sinker"...and as far as I can tell, the disposition, the handiness, the common sense etc is not to me at all obviously superior or inferior based on generation....instead it is based on many other factors.

As a general rule, I have simply found most folks I have met very friendly including all the folks I met at canopener...also I always make a point to converse with other AS owners when we are camping (sometimes to my wife's embarrassment).

I dont mean this to be mean or anything, but I think humans are much more predisposed to cynicism when observing their fellow human beings in action and take a small sample size and run with conclusions of all sorts based on an inadequte data set.

But perhaps I am 31 and naive?

[J. Morgan]

Perhaps.

This cynicism isn't about thinking ability or lack of data, it is about the negative traits of humanity.

This kind of thing is emotionally inspired, not thinking inspired. Education might make a more informed cynic,,, and maybe not...


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[Larry C]

Originally Posted by Taylormade

Sad, but unfortunately true. While I've never been a member of the "club", I've met more than my share of folks with newer Airstreams across the southeast who've attempted to assert their affluence over me and my poor 78.

My favorite was a recently retired couple in a 16' Bambi who spouted off a constant stream of self congratulations and arrogance while showing pity for the guy with the shiny, but old, 31' monstrosity.

Of note, I find the annoying ones to be typically baby boomers (ducking as I type this). The older (65-80) crowd typically respects and loves checking out the restored Sovereign, while the 55-65 group tends to be the "proud", shall we say, group.

I laugh it off in any case and am perfectly content with my "vintage" baby. I get why membership in the WBCCI is down, though.

AGREED! We're sorta happy to be in the category of "the older" crowd. Many of the life experiences that we've had sort of qualifies us to ignore some of these things.
The ones that I simply can't ignore, I call upon my uncle Jack Daniels, for a simple chat about these things...
For whatever it's worth.

Larry

[dznf0g]

"I dont mean this to be mean or anything, but I think humans are much more predisposed to cynicism when observing their fellow human beings in action and take a small sample size and run with conclusions of all sorts based on an inadequte data set."

Duhhhh...what him say???? My wife has a more simple look at it, "We're all odd....some are just more odd than others."

I like her approach. No need for sample sizes or data set...just accept it, embrace it, laugh it off and move on! She's always my sanity and reality check.

[PharmGeek]

"I like her approach. No need for sample sizes or data set...just accept it, embrace it, laugh it off and move on! She's always my sanity and reality check. "

Well I agree, we are just using different language to say the same thing

[PharmGeek]

As it relates, I have airstream envy for the mirror shiny older ones...oh those shiny things captivate me...hook, line, and sinker indeed I must say!

[Denis4x4]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

I find the only thing not upgraded are the new AS owners. Many lack the common sense and life experiences of new owners of a different era. AS is catering to these new owners and hence the decline in quality and common sense in the building of the units. All the shiny and electronic junk on the new units grab these new owners and get them to buy. The trailers have declined in quality as have the new owners. I know, I am just a fossil, but I believe this is true. Many of you will agree, but few will admit it. Not meant to insult any individuals, just the younger generations in general. No fault of their own, we raised them to be the way they are! Jim

You're only partly right in your assessment of AS ownership. Many new owners have achieved their financial goals when they're well into their sixties and can afford to buy a new AS. Quite frankly, these new owners have the life experiences to assess quality and that's why there are so many posts pointing out the QC failings of Airstreams from these "experienced" owners.

As Gene has pointed out and I have experienced, the fact is that there are other trailers (and class B's) out there that are equal to and in some cases, superior to the Airstream lineup.

Not exactly sure why Thor sold the T@B line of trailers. I had one and the quality was far superior to my AS. I sold it for a much higher percentage of the purchase price than I could get for my Safari! I suspect that profitability of a smaller unit (in spite of the high price) was just not there.

[rodsterinfl]

Obviously most of us do not agree. Some examples I have learned from this forum say otherwise. Consider that prior to the early 80's, they were all clad aluminum- better material. Prior to the seventies, all wood cabinetry- better material. I don't think a buyer should be concerned about "age" as much as condition and how much they are willing or able to refurbish. The one and only major concern I would have as a potential Airstream buyer is frame and floor. That is NOT only a vintage concern. Oh, and the corrosion issue is really a natural process as the metal is coated and those small lesions, however caused, allow moisture in to start the process. In my opinion, as long as AS coats the metal, they will have that issue. @Crispyboy I have not tested an Airstream ducted system yet but just recently I ran a sound level test comparison on my unit, an AS with a Penguin Dometic non-ducted and two Coleman 2014 ducted trailers 31' and the other unknown size (big trailer) with Advent AC systems (just curious). I took three measures- front, middle under the unit or intake and back. My measures were F,M,B (62dB, 62dB, 61dB) and the Colemans were both the same at (60.5,60.5,60.5). The blowing sound was distributed all over and, the layouts were different -on had a bath in the back. I know these are not Airstreams but they had that humped metal duct with a spray-on white coating. I mention this because ducting may not be worth trading in that all fixed up '94 Excella either!

[J. Morgan]

It is interesting that the "improved" version of air conditioning is a complicated and expensive ducted system and not simply a quieter roof mounted unit.

From all accounts it seems as if my old 1972 Armstrong unit might be more quiet than new roof mounts AND the new ducted systems.




Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[switz]

I became very knowledgable about the PCBs issue when dealing with our five Superfund sites in Bloomington, Indiana and the resulting disastrous cleanup that left most of the PCBs hiding under the carpet. Corporations are no stewards of the environment if it gets in the way of profits. And that applies to their employees being "expendable" as a cost of doing business.

They were created in Germany in the 1880s and workers were getting sick and dying within five to eight years of exposure. They were exported to the US in the early 1900s with similar results.

Bloomington has one of the highest brain cancer rates in the nation, especially among those that lived adjacent to the dumps containing these chemicals. A farmer next door to one toxic landfill had three headed pigs, strange leg configurations and other issues with his wife's legs.

A Westinghouse employee who usually had his arms in the fluid got sick and went to the doctor for blood work. His wife was taken aside to be told that the extremely high PCB levels in his body meant that when he died, he would either have to be buried in a hazardous waste land fill or cremated in a hazardous incinerator as his body was that toxic.

These issues are not just in the USA, but world wide. There is NO place on the planet that one can not detect PCB contamination.