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xrvr · 06-26-2014, 08:32 AM

You are under no obligation to take any drug prescribed for you. It is your decision alone and any doctor that does not agree with that is wrong. Get a different doctor.this is way off topic. Jim

John&Vicki · 06-26-2014, 08:35 AM

To keep this discussion on track remember the title of the thread - "Newer is Not Necessarily an Upgrade". A lot of newer is an upgrade and older is not always better.

After spending over 25 years in a technology environment I confess to being in a bit of a reactionary mode as technology gallops along. New technology can be very seductive though. I think one of the things that has affected my perception of it has been the time I have spent around Porsches built in the 50's, 60's and early 70's. It was a period of form follows function with the engineers in charge; the cars were largely handbuilt using high quality materials; no computers were used in the cars systems; most everything was mechanical; the culture was described by the authoritative book covering the era, "Excellence Was Expected". The cars are a pleasure to look at, a pleasure to work on and, most of all, a pleasure to drive.

I'm not as enthusiastic about newer Porsches - and certainly don't consider them to be an upgrade. They're slick and pretty and run circles around the older ones. But they're machine made using a lot of plastic, the systems are computerized, even the driving is computerized. If a cars job is to get the driver down the road and around curves quickly, they do a much better job than the older ones. If a cars job is to engage the driver and be fun to drive then the older cars do a better job.

So is newer an upgrade? A lot of it depends on you and what makes your duck quake.

Poppy

Denis4x4 · 06-26-2014, 08:40 AM

When it comes to Porsche, the elephant in the room is the federal mandates for cars and trucks that dictate new technology having to do with safety and emissions.

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xrvr · 06-26-2014, 08:42 AM

Upgrades. I was just on my daily bicycle ride when I was run off the sidewalk by a twenty something young lady riding no handed while texting. She would have hit me head on if I had not swerved. She just missed my wife. Never stopped. Here the part about upgrades. I guess she upgraded her bicycle with the latest in cell phone technology. Almost got us both in the hospital! Jim

John&Vicki · 06-26-2014, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Upgrades. I was just on my daily bicycle ride when I was run off the sidewalk by a twenty something young lady riding no handed while texting. She would have hit me head on if I had not swerved. She just missed my wife. Never stopped. Here the part about upgrades. I guess she upgraded her bicycle with the latest in cell phone technology. Almost got us both in the hospital! Jim

Did you zig or zag?

Poppy

xrvr · 06-26-2014, 08:48 AM

Both, and as quickly as I could. The zag almost got me though, got hung up on the edge of sidewalk and had to boogie to get straight again. Jim

J. Morgan · 06-26-2014, 08:48 AM

If I say that a mark of truly improving technology is simplicity in use, reliability, and an increase in real value dollar for dollar, is the technology being employed in RV's on a par with a smartphone?

Why did the Blackberry fall while the iPhone rose?

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J. Morgan · 06-26-2014, 08:54 AM

Emissions....

Don't get me started.

If X amount of dollars were spent to get the first 98% clean, is it right to spend twice that amount to get the next 1%?

Common sense has to play somewhere, at some point we have to expect a reasonable return on an investment.

Government mandate is blind to common sense, it is all about appeal to emotion.

In the 90s when computer controlled engines had come into their own, add on emission equipment was being eliminated while these vehicles produced a fraction of the emissions they had only a decade and a half before.

An agenda with a mandate knows no common sense boundaries.

Last night I went to dinner with my parents. When my mom ordered a drink she was asked for I.D. For reference, I am pushing 50.

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r carl · 06-26-2014, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

If I say that a mark of truly improving technology is simplicity in use, reliability, and an increase in real value dollar for dollar, is the technology being employed in RV's on a par with a smartphone?

Why did the Blackberry fall while the iPhone rose?

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First, the company failed to recognize that the iPhone could hurt it. Then it overlooked the threat of low-cost competitors in Asia. Finally, and most recently, executives threw the company’s little remaining energy into a new line of high-end smartphones that failed to resonate with consumers, having arrived far too late with too little to offer.

teagues · 06-26-2014, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

All of that could be accomplished with a thermostat that doesn't need a data wire to the a/c unit, a conventional wired thermostat with bluetooth.

The thermostats being used now are linked with the a/c unit for two way data communication.

These seem to be problematic, failing and leaving the owner with no A/c.

Why not a conventional style thermostat with bluetooth or something to make it remotely linkable?

If they went this route, in a pinch a person would at least be able to replace a broken thermostat at Home Depot and get the cooler working.

I do not disagree, but just wanted to point out that the stock thermostat in my '08 is dumb as a brick. Is there any other thermostat that makes you wait 3 minutes after turning on the AC before the AC actually kicks in?! Is there something I can buy at a big box that would replace it and still run the furnace when there's no shore power? (I actually gave up looking for that) I don't need a smartphone-driven bluetooth solar powered gadget, just something that does everything it needs to do, and does not make me wait for the AC.

J. Morgan · 06-26-2014, 09:09 AM

My wife had a Blackberry once, her complaint is that it was too hard to use. She had no problem with learning and using an iPhone.

How do you suppose she would adapt to rebooting her thermostat or figuring out how to make a non flushing electric toilet flush?

Frustration maybe?

How will you react when you have to drop what you are doing to fix the emergency ?

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r carl · 06-26-2014, 09:20 AM

Although I like both, a B29 impresses me more than a F18.

PharmGeek · 06-26-2014, 10:04 AM

When I learned of the electric macerator toilet it was on a bunkhouse thread just before I purchased...

I was told there by other owners it was done primarily in that case because of the placement of the holding tank in a spot such that stuff needed to go a bit uphill...thus requiring pushing the waste a bit to get there...confirm this for sure by flushing it...when going number two you must hold the button down for 3-5 seconds to make sure nothing comes back....I hope this mechanism will be reliable...it does made dumping nice for me....I can empty my black tank with my sewer solution without running the sewer solution water sprayer macerator thingie....simplifies my process a bit more....I may ask JC a bit more detail about this toilet and such when I go there next year.

My thermostat has been fine now...it does take like 1 minute to get to going sometimes. I was taught by the dealer how to reset the programming of it as if that gets screwy everthing can sorta freeze requring the reset...but in the past 3 trips its worked fine.

I enjoy the surround sound in the trailer for a movie and my AS is parked in my back yard and actually now serves as a guest house when family visit allowing it to be quite functional as such....

As far as newer stuff going all electric for awnings, beds, etc...that seems downright frightening....put out the awning then screws up...then...what??!! I would hope there is some form of manual mechanism to put it back in and out? but in another thread I read there was not, just not sure though. I have never used a manual crank tongue jack, but if my electric jack goes out, I will be cursing (although I believe I can manually operate my jack if I recall reading the manual about that bit).

My minivan was a prime example I suppose of how we as consumers are lead to accept things we probably should not want. Regular sliding doors are easy and I just knew I should want those....ahh but wifey wanted the DVD player included in the minivan (really we do enjoy this for some road trips with the kids) - and so the models with DVD in the package have the power doors....we have now like 5 more years of carmax coverage for bumper to bumper...but beyond that, I dont wanna know how much motors and repairs for such doors would be?!?!

Overall, in the case of the auto doors on the van....it is quite a nice convenience and is very handy making loading and unloading kids a bit, but will I think so when it breaks one day (if it does? not sure how reliable these are honestly and if I can manually open/close in such a case)?

I think there are at least shades of truth in so many ways that some upgrades are not...some definately are...and some are very subjective?

PharmGeek · 06-26-2014, 10:09 AM

I suppose there may be a market for alot of electric assisted items?...I met a fella while camping in blairsville, GA at vogel state park a couple weeks ago in his motorhome that could barely bend over to fiddle with the fire he was struggling to get going (because the park sold him apparently unseasoned wood..crap would not burn)...but for those who are capable of operating the zipdee awning, it seems a bit scary to consider the problems that could come as a result...

LawChick · 06-26-2014, 10:35 AM

Just my humble opinion, but with an Airstream, newer is almost never better. We've had a 29' 1992 Excella Classic and now a 1987 Excella 32'. Both of them were used for cross country trips and at least half time. Both were excellent, reliable, comfy and everything works. The only new thing that would tempt me would be a 30' ultra loaded Classic - now that would be an upgrade!

J. Morgan · 06-26-2014, 10:35 AM

The delay on my thermostat is six seconds. I bought it off the shelf at home Depot. It is powered by the transformer in the air conditioner.

Stock my trailer was equipped with two thermostats, one for the A/C and one for the heater, it is still essentially the same.

There would be a power issue that would need to be overcome if it was desired to use only a single thermostat, but this would be easy enough to rectify.

The delay built into thermostats is to prevent the compressor from coming on too soon after it has cycled off to allow for pressures to normalize so that the compressor does not have to struggle to start against high pressure. Your lag time seems extreme to me.

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LawChick · 06-26-2014, 10:37 AM

By the way, we're camped now in Dulcinea, the 32', with 4 grandchildren & quite comfy! (Camped on Petit Jean, tho, close to home, so parents can be summoned if we tire of these rascally rascals!

PharmGeek · 06-26-2014, 10:59 AM

Can a summon babysitter option be on my AS - that would be a nice upgrade

teagues · 06-26-2014, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

The delay on my thermostat is six seconds. I bought it off the shelf at home Depot. It is powered by the transformer in the air conditioner.

Stock my trailer was equipped with two thermostats, one for the A/C and one for the heater, it is still essentially the same.

There would be a power issue that would need to be overcome if it was desired to use only a single thermostat, but this would be easy enough to rectify.

The delay built into thermostats is to prevent the compressor from coming on too soon after it has cycled off to allow for pressures to normalize so that the compressor does not have to struggle to start against high pressure. Your lag time seems extreme to me.

Thanks J. You've got me thinking. I am warming up to the idea of a second thermostat, assuming that I can figure out the wiring. That, or I'll devise some sort of bypass so that I can force the AC to start immediately when I really need it to.

I read that the 3 minute delay on our "comfort control center" is intended to protect the compressor. I get the idea. The delay we see is extreme, but here it does not really matter if it's 3 minutes, 3 seconds, or 3 years. The thermostat is powered by the house DC system, so unless the battery switch is on "store" (and not a chance that it will be), the thermostat has no idea if we lose shore power, or when it comes back on.

dznf0g · 06-26-2014, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

The delay on my thermostat is six seconds. I bought it off the shelf at home Depot. It is powered by the transformer in the air conditioner.

Stock my trailer was equipped with two thermostats, one for the A/C and one for the heater, it is still essentially the same.

There would be a power issue that would need to be overcome if it was desired to use only a single thermostat, but this would be easy enough to rectify.

The delay built into thermostats is to prevent the compressor from coming on too soon after it has cycled off to allow for pressures to normalize so that the compressor does not have to struggle to start against high pressure. Your lag time seems extreme to me.

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It is designed for two minutes before coming on the first time and two minutes between compressor cycles. Too long is your opinion, not the manufacturer of the A/C unit. at least CCC #1 is two minutes.