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Old 06-25-2014, 02:52 PM   #113
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I think we should all meet a predetermined location and sit around a campfire and forget what we do not havein common and talk about what we do. Wait, cannot do that, I amso old I will fall asleep before we start talking, and the youngsters will not be there because it is too early! Oh well, such is life. Jim
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:57 PM   #114
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I think we should all meet a predetermined location and sit around a campfire and forget what we do not havein common and talk about what we do. Wait, cannot do that, I amso old I will fall asleep before we start talking, and the youngsters will not be there because it is too early! Oh well, such is life. Jim
Yeah, but then we'd have to find consensus on whether them new fangled beer cans with the dual pop tops are an improvement over the old pull tabs from the 60's.
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:00 PM   #115
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So a warning will notify the driver that the window is down in case it rains. You know, not enough sense to get out of the rain. Senders that turn on headlights and wipers. All common sense things that today's people have to be told to do. We raised em, and we are paying for it now. Jim
You have hit the nail on the head!
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:01 PM   #116
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As long as they are not electric, I am in! Jim
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:06 PM   #117
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Yeah, but then we'd have to find consensus on whether them new fangled beer cans with the dual pop tops are an improvement over the old pull tabs from the 60's.
I thought the new fangled ones you pushed in the small button first.
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:09 PM   #118
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Well, ya know, that dual hole is for the young kids who want to shotgun a beer without any effort at all with carrying a pointy can opener and punching their own hole in the bottom of the can. What kind of lazy generation have we produced anyway!
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:12 PM   #119
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I have had one set of front loaders with computers. (One and a half actually when I foolishly replaced a broken front load washer with a replacement)

I hated them. (I really WANTED to like them though) They balled up my clothes, they made my clothes smell like sour milk, and the computer would blow about every 12 to 18 months.

I gave them to my son and bought the last of the pre Whirlpool buyout top load Maytags...

No regrets with the top load Maytags, and for me a perfect illustration of how new and improved often ain't an improvement.


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Exactly why I waited 3 months for a replacement transmission for my 15 year old Frigidaire laundry center. The new ones have crappy reviews and poor maintenance records. FWIW it is actually badged Kenmore and they wanted nothing to do with it.

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Old 06-25-2014, 03:21 PM   #120
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Exactly why I waited 3 months for a replacement transmission for my 15 year old Frigidaire laundry center. The new ones have crappy reviews and poor maintenance records. FWIW it is actually badged Kenmore and they wanted nothing to do with it.

Aaron
Exactly why I like my new one....no transmission...only a huge brushless PM motor that spins so high a speed that the dryer cycle time almost matches the wash cycle time. Saves energy both ways.

I was always replacing/rebuilding transmissions and cleaning/replacing relays switches and timers on the old stuff. Mine are almost 8 years old and the only thing I have done is put a tub suspension spring back on when it popped off.
They are top-loaders from Australia (unfortunately). A big improvement over conventional top loaders of the prior generations.
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Old 06-25-2014, 03:24 PM   #121
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Exactly why I like my new one....no transmission...only a huge brushless PM motor that spins so high a speed that the dryer cycle time almost matches the wash cycle time. Saves energy both ways.

I was always replacing/rebuilding transmissions and cleaning/replacing relays switches and timers on the old stuff. Mine are almost 8 years old and the only thing I have done is put a tub suspension spring back on when it popped off.
They are top-loaders from Australia (unfortunately). A big improvement over conventional top loaders of the prior generations.
Interestingly enough my MIL has a top o'line Maytag that is on it's third CCM in 5 years. I will stick with the mechanical stuff.

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Old 06-25-2014, 04:35 PM   #122
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My first set of washer and dryer lasted 20 years before I had to replace the bushings in the dryer drum. I used it for a while longer before trading out for my new and improved front loaders.

Right from the get go I stated that some new things are better, but some things that are new and improved are not, no natter how much we want them to be....

Lol how about the new fly by wire electronic throttles they are putting on new cars.

Are these actually new and improved or just new?

Has anyone had to fix one of these yet? $$$$


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Old 06-25-2014, 05:03 PM   #123
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The concept of fly by wire versus control cables in airliners is interesting given the engine failure on that Airbus 380 in Malaysia. They have dual wiring but both cables sets were in the same wire trough. When the compressor wheel came apart, both cables were cut. When it was finally on the ground (took over THREE Hours to get everyone off the plane) they could not shut down one of the engines and finally choked it with fire fighting equipment.

So, if the computer decides to quit and takes the other two mid ocean, how does the crew fly the plane with no control cables? maybe power adjustments for up and down and less power on one motor to cause a turn..... That only works if they have been trained to consider such a possibility. The crash at San Francisco b Asiania was caused by incompetent crew (including the check pilot) who lack real world hand flying experience. Their log books are full of computer flown hours and training over there is not as rigorous as here.

Mean while back at the bucking rivets station at Airstream, they are still doing that process by hand the same way as in the 30s, but using less of the rivets now. I wonder how much a rivet costs relative to the over $121,00 price tag of the new Classic 31'.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:12 PM   #124
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Coming back on topic, Let me give my view on new ASes vs. old ASes relative to the number one issue causing the most heartburn here. Water leaks and the resultant damage from them. Granted there are several design and build issues we can discuss, but I need to hone in on my theory.

Basic premise question. I wonder, when new, if a....say 1960...pick a model, had any fewer shell and leak issues than new ones. We are quick to condemn the water test and sealer application and on and on.

I believe there is a substantial amount of "settling in" of the shell over the first 10,000 miles or so, where a lot of joints, rivets, panels, and mounted items shift and move around to find their "stress relieved" positions.

The shell is assembled in sides, roof and end caps individually, by hand, and then assembled as a complete shell. Each component is made on jig without the use cadcam or robots, which can actually compensate for assembles stresses and pre-stress a sub-assembly with predicted and accurate results....like an auto unibody.

Now we have all these "no 2 alike" components riveted together with sealed seams and without even the benefit of a frame or floor to provide "squareness". Now you plop in windows, vents, A/C, door, etc. and run an empty unit through a water test after rolling a few hundred feet on relatively smooth surfaces. They fix any leaks and then install the inner skin putting new stresses on all the assembly points. Now we hang cabinets, screw down walls and counters to the walls and add new additional stresses.

Now we have a brand new AS with countless directional stresses acting upon already induced sub-assembly stresses, held tight by rivets and bolts and screws. Now we buy it and drive it through the oscillations, vibrations, impacts and even g-forces that driving imparts.

I believe that through these first (for me) 10,000 miles everything is wearing in and shifting and settling in.

This has been evidenced to me several ways. Somewhere around 7,000 miles, the door didn't fit. One proper adjustment and it has been fine since. A few (like 5) random rivet pops...one time each in apparently non stressed areas (unlike front panel with over hitched scenario). When new, the wardrobe door would just barely clear the lower A/C shroud. After a few thousand miles it wouldn't clear by 1/8" or so, indicating a settling of that area of the roof under the weight of the A/C.

Is it any wonder that leaks appear after some use. I now have 15K (hub odometer) on the unit and have everything pretty darned sealed and dry. Of course, there will be degradation maintenance over time, but I think she's settled in.

What could AS do to remedy this?
1) Install 100s of millions of dollars of cadcam machinery to precisely drill all holes and hold and form all sub-assemblies and robot applied uniform sealer, and on and on, like an auto manufacturer? All this for 50 units a week in a good year? Automakers have the advantage of defraying these costs over a 7 to 10 year product lifecycle at 50 - 60 unit an HOUR!!!!! Not feasible.

2) Make the shell out of one piece composite material with no seams. I DON'T WANT a plastic Airstream. Maybe it's a good idea, but it's not an Airstream without panels, aluminum, and rivets. Call it something else. Heck, it might even sell.

I wonder if, in 20 years, I'll still be here (ya'll probably hope not) with my 2007 VINTAGE Classic singing the praises of the good old days when they built them right, when in fact, she's just all settled in and comfortable in her own skin.
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Old 06-25-2014, 05:15 PM   #125
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I guess I'm not paying attention. I've noticed that new Airstreams use fewer visible rivets and I'm sure there's been a discussion on the forum about it, but what are they using to attach the panels in place of rivets?

I gotta admit I like the look of the old ones with more rivets. There's something cool about rivets.

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Old 06-25-2014, 05:20 PM   #126
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I think there may be a pretty good number of the older trailers ( a few in the 40s and more in each decade coming to present) still in existence and operational.

Maybe the fewer rivets is the planned obsolesce so the new units won't still be in use 50 years from now as they will fall apart...... Thus increasing sales????
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