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Old 06-25-2014, 02:14 PM   #99
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Newer is Not Necessarily an Upgrade

It's because people are too lazy to go outside and light the water heater.
The basic systems require someone to interact with the device. All most people want to do today is to sit in their air conditioned coach; watch TV or be on the net. Anything more than pushing a button is difficult.
Unfortunately, this is the reason for things like electric toilets. Circuit board controlled refers, furnaces etc.
I am one who is lucky enough to have a broad technical background and can repair or replace virtually everything in my coach. I am also smart enough not to take on any body work. No skill or patients in this area.
So as long as the 40 year old refer in my coach does not lose the ammonia charge. I can troubleshoot and repair it. And not have big $$$ going out for circuit boards etc. No electronics in that old refer.
If and when the old Armstrong AC craps out. If I decide to upgrade. I will look closely at installing one of the mini split AC units out there. Should I decide not to repair or refurbish the Armstrong unit. Why replace an old noisy AC with a new noisy AC?
There is a certain amount of comfort in knowing that. If something does go wrong. Chances are, that if I can get parts. I can do the repair myself.
I am intimately familiar with all systems in my coach. Since I have completed all upgrades and improvements myself.
I think that is why I am so critical of A$. It's not exactly Rocket Science to build reliable systems and to at least do above average quality of work. Since the price of an A$ is above average.
I think one reason the auto quality has improved ( generally speaking) besides the competition is that robots do a lot of the work. Robots don't know whether it is Monday or Friday. They don't get the Monday Morning blues or mad at their boss or upper management. Etc. they just do the same job in the same way every minute of every day. They don't have spouses or family issues or get tired of going to work. So the results of the work is pretty consistent.
IMHO
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:14 PM   #100
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I worked as a systems integrator during the client-server era followed by 15 years building internet companies. Many years in the digital world but I find I very often prefer analog - and manual vs. automatic. Roger mentioned electric toilets. I can't for the life of me see anything wrong with flush toilets. I much prefer having a manual awning as opposed to an automatic one. Heck I prefer roll-up windows in a car over electric ones.

Low tech often means there's less to go wrong. And it almost always means you can fix it if it does. The electric, automatic, digital stuff is usually remove and replace with a new component - if you can figure out which component. And it's also usually $$$$.

One of the things I like about my old trailer is how primitive it is. There's not much there that I can't fix given enough time and enough reading here.

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Bingo! We have a winner!

The more things get automated the more complex they become. Making them more difficult to fix and quite often more likely to fail. Many, many years ago I started training as a cabinet maker, the gentleman that was teaching us made us learn the old manual methods FIRST then allowed us to move on to the fancier power machines. I still teach my guys the same way today, learn the basic manual methods then move on to the machines.

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Old 06-25-2014, 02:16 PM   #101
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Talking My long bit on the topic(s)

On AC noise @Pharmgeek,

I do not hear the compressor motor at all on my AC unit. The only indication that it is cycling is a light click sound and, you have to listen for that.

The biggest noise to me is the fan/blower. Remember those old motel units with the mechanism below the window? They were noisy too. Now they make a similarly designed unit for the same spot that is VERY quiet. A resort in Naples has them and they are quiet. It IS POSSIBLE to make something quieter.


@Thread topic and @Zigzag's comment on people,

Yes, Airstream quality is different. I believe it is mostly due to different materials. Did the older ones show evidence of mistakes during construction like the newer ones?

Also, consider the culture. I believe this addresses your point Zigzag on "people and generations." My father is a very loyal what I do represents me attitude with his work. Slower work but very methodical. He also often redesigns a part to be better if he notes weakness- that's his way. He has difficulty understanding why young people today are less committed to the task per se. I say it is because loyalty is gone. It is hard to expect much when a company does not care about you as is proven by the way they often dump workers for falsified reasons. Add to that some people are raised without having to pay for their own way completely and then the "value of a dollar" is lost and everything is more easy come easy go.

Even though this may seem all philosophical, it effects the way of life for people- the depth of their understanding, the experiences of the struggle to obtain, the perception of a free ride (handouts) and, the work ethic itself.

Personally, the peers that I am in contact with are different in many ways. My generation, the last of the Baby Boomers/almost Gen X are classified as indulgers. We are the live high toss it out crowd, as a whole. My parents came from larger families and I, an only child, was raised like they were by my fathers order. I had to buy everything myself. I paid for all of my college, my car, insurance etc. So, for me, work was not an option but, I will tell you that ALL of my friends had their college paid for or at least partially. Some even got cars and HOMES! I could go on but the point is that much of who a person is has to do with how they were raised and some other dynamics- other than just age. It is true that many of our young people are almost soul-less with regard to responsibility but it comes back to being taught. Airstream seems to portray the traditional company standards of loyal workers = traditional quality. We know they have a traditional product! Some things would be better to rethink/redesign- that is for sure.

I am so thankful to be able to own an Airstream, even an eight-year-old one and, I do not owe on it! It sure ain't new but it still is nice! I so admire those vintage streams that are taken care of. The materials used for construction are so beefy. Just like an old car. Look at an Auburn ugh, it oozes with quality. The same with us. We have so much to learn and share across generations. The young and dumb may not know that but there are some young people that will appreciate both quality and the older person who cares enough to share their wisdom. New is NOT Necessarily an upgrade- not when materials and other considerations are noted. In some cases, you cannot even upgrade and have the same thing:
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:27 PM   #102
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Rodster, thanks for the comments, very insightful. Jim. Ps, my mother in law lives in Alva, on the river. Nice area, Jim
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:28 PM   #103
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I assume if and when (or simply when) the "modern" electric macerater toilet in my unit fails to work I will be a wishing I had a manual one!!

Same for the fancy motorized doors on our minivan....etc and so on
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:36 PM   #104
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Guys, they were saying the same thing when they put in the wood/tar cased lead acid battery in the automobile and took away the hand crank. And when they took out the ice block tray AC in the Caddy and replaced it with a compressor and freon....and on....and on.

And they all talked about it on the internet(s)....wait, I forgot, that was just before AL Gore......

Chill baby!
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:38 PM   #105
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I assume if and when (or simply when) the "modern" electric macerater toilet in my unit fails to work I will be a wishing I had a manual one!!
Ha, that is when you have a choice $$$ or this:
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:38 PM   #106
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Not the same. Does a refrigerator or air conditioner or an oven with a computer really work better than the old ones without this stuff?

I don't think the case can really be made that they do.




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Old 06-25-2014, 02:41 PM   #107
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Not the same. Does a refrigerator or air conditioner or an oven with a computer really work better than the old ones without this stuff?

I don't think the case can really be made that they do.




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Don't have one of them there ovens...but my computerized washer/dryer is far superior to any old mechanical ones I've had.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:41 PM   #108
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Ha, that is when you have a choice $$$ or this:

hahahahahahahahahahaha.

I wonder what the demographic breakdown of new owers is....I imagine that 30's and 40's are a tiny fraction.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:42 PM   #109
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ot the same. Does a refrigerator or air conditioner or an oven with a computer really work better than the old ones without this stuff?
Exactly. The argument is not against advancement or innovation but rather quality and perceived refinements. It is related to the price tag of new and the value of new/old. I do not believe there is an intent to bash new model owners either.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:43 PM   #110
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Newer is Not Necessarily an Upgrade

I recently spent two weeks making a 75 Sovereign habitable. All of the original stuff worked but the hot water heater and the A/C.

The water heater froze and broke, and the A/C had been replaced about 20 years prior with a Coleman. The Old Coleman however did work.

As does the stock Armstrong in my 72.....


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Old 06-25-2014, 02:44 PM   #111
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hahahahahahahahahahaha.

I wonder what the demographic breakdown of new owers is....I imagine that 30's and 40's are a tiny fraction.
Me too.
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Old 06-25-2014, 02:47 PM   #112
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Newer is Not Necessarily an Upgrade

I have had one set of front loaders with computers. (One and a half actually when I foolishly replaced a broken front load washer with a replacement)

I hated them. (I really WANTED to like them though) They balled up my clothes, they made my clothes smell like sour milk, and the computer would blow about every 12 to 18 months.

I gave them to my son and bought the last of the pre Whirlpool buyout top load Maytags...

No regrets with the top load Maytags, and for me a perfect illustration of how new and improved often ain't an improvement.


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