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Old 06-27-2014, 09:20 PM   #211
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This discussion reminds me of one of my favourite reads.....

John Ralston Saul : Non-Fiction - The Doubter?s Companion: A Dictionary of Aggressive Common Sense
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:37 PM   #212
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I'm always interested in a discussion of assumptions and worldviews, however tangential.

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Old 06-28-2014, 11:51 AM   #213
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One of the reasons that newer is not necessarily an upgrade as that oftentimes, not always but oftentimes, newer is simply advancing form over function - the bright shiny object syndrome. New things are often slicker, shinier, more attractive, which gives them allure that attracts buyers. But objects that are intended to be functional don't always work better.

I really appreciate aesthetics, but I want my tools (I refer to items that exist to perform a function as tools) to do their job well every time over a long period of time. With tools, form follows function.

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Old 06-28-2014, 12:52 PM   #214
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Yes, this has got to be one of the best threads in a while!

You have it down Bird man. Form over function drives a lot. Interestingly as I have spent my hard earned dollars on my AS some things like upgrading the TV are nice -went to LED, larger, Smart, etc but in the end I have, a TV. At the lowest level the benefits are less power usage and larger screen. That is easier to justify but if I had simply purchased another TV (same size, etc) there is a sense of no gain or benefit. Years ago an older friend of mine did computer publishing on his grayscale mac SE. That thing was from 1987 but he said it did everything he needed and he knew how to do it all- this was in 2001. A fourteen year-old computer. I wouldn't doubt if he still had it- if alive. He moved.

Same idea with buying the fridge to replace my other one. Nearly $1400 and I have a refrigerator - oh, I had one before anyway. Justified only because of failure- no realized betterment.

Another thought is with basic and advanced models. Ironically a few months ago I purchased a canister vac. I focused in on a brand, Miele, and then started trying to pick a model from their 12 model lineup. It took me a while but in the end I realized that they really only had 3 model lines, the rest of the difference was color, included attachments and, in the upper line, electronic options - like phone answer stand-by, bag change reminder, filter check reminder, on hose suction control, bumper scratch guard, etc. Same power, same motor per se but sleeker look. Crazy. How hard is it to turn the thing off to answer the phone, check the bag and filter once in a while, etc.? Oh, and get this, the price doubles for these features!
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Old 06-28-2014, 01:52 PM   #215
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As much as I love my trailer, it is still way overpriced for what it is. For the money, it should be a little closer to problem-free. I hate when people try to dismiss the quality issues saying it is "a hand-built trailer". How many aircraft, boats, luxury cars, and super cars are hand-built and are higher quality than their assembly line counterparts?


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Old 06-28-2014, 01:57 PM   #216
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My vintage is really closer to a hand built trailer than the new ones. Most of mine has been hand rebuilt by now, fifty years. Jim
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Old 06-28-2014, 02:52 PM   #217
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My vintage is really closer to a hand built trailer than the new ones. Most of mine has been hand rebuilt by now, fifty years. Jim
Yep.

I truly believe that the highest quality Airstream you can buy is not an older one or a newer one. It's a trailer that has been owned, sorted and - wait for it - upgraded (!) by an owner who is a true enthusiast. We have many of them on this forum, true enthusiasts with maniacal attention to detail, we all know who they are. Their trailers are true post-production upgrades.

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Old 06-28-2014, 03:01 PM   #218
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Yes, indeed.
Upgraded with:
Disc brakes
Solar
16" wheels
Inverter


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Old 06-28-2014, 03:14 PM   #219
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OK J Morgan, I can answer one of your questions. Why someone would want a fancy thermostat. (these are residential, not RV stats)

Look up EcoBee WiFi thermostats. I have one (disclosure, I work in the HVAC industry and sell them as well.)

https://www.ecobee.com


With the EcoBee I can add in a 4 event 7 day daily schedule (awake, work, home, asleep) and optimize my energy savings by doing this. I can add in vacation days up to a year in advance to turn up the AC if I will be out of town for a week. I can adjust my system from my phone. So I want to come home for lunch I can start cooling when I leave to office to get it to the lower temperature. If I am cold in the middle of the night in winter, I can adjust the temperature without getting out of bed. This all may sound unnecessary, but it saves about 20-30% on energy vs the typical user in my zip code. And I can get emails to remind me to change my air filter.

And if you have ever had your kids call you at work and say it's so hot in here, you can just look in real time and tell them, no it isn't!

Now I will say that if you are not away during the work day, then you may not need this. And if you can't see well, then frankly the old style Honeywell that clicks audibly when adjusted is better (which is what my parents, one of who has low vision, still use).

But it is nice to be 30 minutes down the road on a Friday after work, remember you forgot to set back the thermostat because you are going to be gone all weekend, and just take care of it from your phone right there.
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Old 06-28-2014, 03:55 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
As much as I love my trailer, it is still way overpriced for what it is. For the money, it should be a little closer to problem-free. I hate when people try to dismiss the quality issues saying it is "a hand-built trailer". How many aircraft, boats, luxury cars, and super cars are hand-built and are higher quality than their assembly line counterparts?


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Wish I'd said this as it sums my feelings exactly for the cost vs. value when it comes to Airstreams.
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Old 06-28-2014, 04:36 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piggy Bank View Post
OK J Morgan, I can answer one of your questions. Why someone would want a fancy thermostat. (these are residential, not RV stats)

Look up EcoBee WiFi thermostats. I have one (disclosure, I work in the HVAC industry and sell them as well.)

https://www.ecobee.com


With the EcoBee I can add in a 4 event 7 day daily schedule (awake, work, home, asleep) and optimize my energy savings by doing this. I can add in vacation days up to a year in advance to turn up the AC if I will be out of town for a week. I can adjust my system from my phone...........
But really, how much of this do we really need in a trailer thermostat?

And beside this, my contention wasn't so much with the functionality, (even though I don't like to have to get out a book to reset temperature, ), but my contention was with the mind meld between the thermostat and the A/C unit via Cat 5 cable....

All of the things you mention could be done with a thermostat that is conventionally connected to the unit.

Or.... couldn't all of the control we really need be accomplished with simple controls mounted to the interior shroud of the unit?

Now, my 72 has a wall mount thermostat for the A/C, but the 75 I bought has the console mount controls. The functionality of the 75 is just as good as the 72, it turns out I dont need a wall mount at all, and really what does the five foot space between the unit and the thermostat accomplish in a trailer with a 26' footprint anyway?

(Btw I am sitting in my cool Airstream right now while taking a break from the heat....
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Old 06-28-2014, 04:42 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.hony View Post
As much as I love my trailer, it is still way overpriced for what it is. For the money, it should be a little closer to problem-free. I hate when people try to dismiss the quality issues saying it is "a hand-built trailer". How many aircraft, boats, luxury cars, and super cars are hand-built and are higher quality than their assembly line counterparts?


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And bacon is overpriced for what it is..... but I still eat it...

Now for a philosophical question...

One of the recurring complaints I see on here is construction debris left in areas covered by cabinets etc... Is this truly a quality problem or is it just a perception problem?
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Old 06-28-2014, 05:03 PM   #223
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I perceive that if the workers don't clean up after themselves, that there is a lack of pride in doing the job and it may very we'll be reflected in other areas of the AS build.


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Old 06-28-2014, 05:08 PM   #224
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Think about this recall on a new truck.

June 25, 2014 Ford has told dealers to stop selling certain model year 2014 F-150 pickup trucks and told owners to park the trucks.
The recall affects the power steering in 5,675 trucks equipped with the 3.7L and 3.5L EcoBoost V-6 and 5.0L DOHC V-8 engines. The action is an expanded recall from a few weeks ago of 372 model year 2014 Ford F-150s for the same problem.
Ford says they aren't aware of any accidents or injuries, but the defect could easily cause serious problems on the road. The trucks have motor position sensor magnets incorrectly installed in the electronic power assist steering gears. The defect could cause the Ford F-150 to lose all steering control, so just imagine trying to drive the truck on a highway without a steering wheel.
The recall should begin on July 7, 2014, and the automaker is adamant that all 2014 Ford F-150s stay parked until they are fixed.
With questions, call Ford customer service at 800-392-3673 and give them recall number 14S09.
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