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Old 06-26-2014, 06:02 PM   #183
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Something I always told my bosses no matter where I worked. People work down to the level of expectation of their superiors. Jim
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Old 06-26-2014, 06:38 PM   #184
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

Great information. I'm becoming more and more convinced that ultimately I would not be happy with a new AS as they exist. My wife and I like the Eddie Bauer editions. Great concept, meh execution. The movable lounge furniture seems cheap, and I would change it anyway to chairs, plus queen to two singles. Probably laminate flooring. I'm becoming convinced the only way I will be satisfied is with a custom design that I create for our needs. But the major problem with vintage are the layouts. My wife who knows next to nothing about AS said she cannot believe that for decades they made them with other than rear dining/lounges. "Who wants to look at your hitch and tow vehicle?", she said. Here newer FB is far superior for us!

When it comes to improvement due to technology, my education and career was in technology (electronics and computers). I'm retired, but last years spent as a technical writer explaining how to use software. Usability and UI (User Interface) were my passion. I learned to love these two quotes.

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
- Albert Eistein

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Our current van has power doors. I'm paranoid that the motor or cables will break. They sometimes beep and reopen when half shut. They think there is something blocking the door. And they are slow. Our previous van had manual doors. Simple and I could shut them 4x as fast as the power ones. The above two quotes apply!

Maybe AS should make some simple vanilla versions. If major sales come from Classics, then so be it. For me, I don't what to lug around solid wood cabinetry. I want lightweight composite in white. The only wood I want to see is on the floor! LED lighting everywhere, sophisticated charge controller for the solar panels, but simple toilets, showers, fans, a/c, thermostat, stove, oven, frig. State-of-the-art flatscreen and music systems, but hand cranked awnings, jacks, vents, windows. Best of both worlds.

In software, we called it "bloatware" when features were added for the sake of adding them. New Airstreams should be called "Bloatstreams!" Take a 1,000 lbs. out of a new one, then work on the next thousand!

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:51 PM   #185
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"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." What a great quote - and what a great post.

There appears to be a consumer wave forming of major proportions: simpler and smaller. Perhaps it's in reaction to "bloatware" and "bloatstuff" in general. Perhaps it's the beginning of an adaptation to a leaner economic environment. Perhaps it's in reaction to big footprints and high rates of consumption. I'm not an economist or a sociologist and don't have insights into the causes, but the wave is plain to see. A couple of examples that come to mind:

o Tiny houses
This is becoming a full fledged movement. Folks are discovering what most of us here already know - you can live comfortably in a very small space. take a look at Tiny House Design

o Self sufficient frugal living on a small budget
Folks like Mr. Money Mustache - Mr. Money Mustache Early Retirement through Badassity - are retiring early and living well with modest means.

I grew up with Vermont roots - folks believed in and practiced Yankee Ingenuity. Things weren't thrown away, they were fixed. A lot of the old stuff was well made and newer wasn't necessarily an upgrade. I think that's why the remark made by the newer AS owner seemed so off-key to me. His remark was well intended and didn't mean any harm by it. It's just part of his worldview that newer is an upgrade.

And it might be - but it ain't necessarily so.

Poppy
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:36 PM   #186
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I guess some just think if it makes your wallet lighter its an upgrade.
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:50 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cramar View Post
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
- Albert Eistein

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication."
- Leonardo da Vinci
In other words, as all good engineers know and all bad engineers don't, "Form follows function."
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:52 PM   #188
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Quote:
Quote:
Last night I went to dinner with my parents. When my mom ordered a drink she was asked for I.D. For reference, I am pushing 50.
Either yous guys look really young or, they were putting you on for a big tip!

Quote:
I grew up with Vermont roots - folks believed in and practiced Yankee Ingenuity. Things weren't thrown away, they were fixed. A lot of the old stuff was well made and newer wasn't necessarily an upgrade. I think that's why the remark made by the newer AS owner seemed so off-key to me. His remark was well intended and didn't mean any harm by it. It's just part of his worldview that newer is an upgrade.How do you suppose she would adapt to rebooting her thermostat or figuring out how to make a non flushing electric toilet flush?
Case in point- Singer sewing machines. They used to be the one to get. Then when they started making the machine gears of plastic they lost their foothold on the market- in came Pfaff, Huskavarna, etc. The issue was that customers started having multiple breakdowns- the thing was wearing out early.

Quote:
How do you suppose she would adapt to rebooting her thermostat or figuring out how to make a non flushing electric toilet flush?
LOL Yeah and what about having to reboot/reset the toilet and the switch is the store/use button in the Airstream- the one by the door!
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Old 06-27-2014, 05:39 AM   #189
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Case in point- Singer sewing machines. They used to be the one to get. Then when they started making the machine gears of plastic they lost their foothold on the market- in came Pfaff, Huskavarna, etc. The issue was that customers started having multiple breakdowns- the thing was wearing out early.



LOL Yeah and what about having to reboot/reset the toilet and the switch is the store/use button in the Airstream- the one by the door!
I have 3 Singer sewing machines... the newest is a 500a from around 1965. One of the last ones made with all steel gears. I can still buy parts for it.

I live on a small farm, we don't throw anything out if we can repair it. Problem is with much of the newer stuff you can't even get parts to repair it, it was designed to be disposable.

Aaron
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:20 AM   #190
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In other words, as all good engineers know and all bad engineers don't, "Form follows function."
actually, that quote is attributed to an architect.
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:24 AM   #191
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I have 3 Singer sewing machines... the newest is a 500a from around 1965. One of the last ones made with all steel gears. I can still buy parts for it.

I live on a small farm, we don't throw anything out if we can repair it. Problem is with much of the newer stuff you can't even get parts to repair it, it was designed to be disposable.

Aaron
I have collected a several Singer 301, 301A, and one 221 feather weight machines.
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:55 AM   #192
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this is what's great about airforums.. you can end up in another continent from the OP
....

I guess I'd be curious to know, how many 'vintage' owners are running their rig pure stock.
bias-ply tires, no microwave, no grey, porcelain toilet, to name a few... and don't forget the tow vehicle- talk about "upgrades"

AFA the durability issue. Excluding the obvious run of Beatrice-streams that suffer frame failure, I'd put my S/O up against any vintage unit out there. I wholly expect it to be 'on the road' in another 30 years. Whether it's a FLW 'Kaufmann house' situation, is another story...
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Old 06-27-2014, 08:20 AM   #193
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My brother in law is living in my 75 which is pure stock except for a replacement hot water heater and a replacement A/C, and replaced water lines.

It was allowed to freeze, killed the water lines and the hot water heater.

My 72 is different. Nothing stock except the air conditioner, but with the exception of an added grey tank I consider mine more simple and less complicated than stock.


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Old 06-27-2014, 08:33 AM   #194
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Interesting opinion piece in todays NY Times about modern construction written by a professor of engineering at Duke University:

"They Don't Make 'Em Like They Used To" - http://nyti.ms/TCRnMO
Why has the quality of our houses and bridges declined so much?


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Old 06-27-2014, 08:43 AM   #195
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funny, author doesn't mention Calatrava bridges..
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Old 06-27-2014, 10:57 AM   #196
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Capitalism works well when labor is expendable and that happens when craftsmanship goes down.
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