Newer is Not Necessarily an Upgrade

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Piggy Bank

OK J Morgan, I can answer one of your questions. Why someone would want a fancy thermostat. (these are residential, not RV stats)

Look up EcoBee WiFi thermostats. I have one (disclosure, I work in the HVAC industry and sell them as well.)

https://www.ecobee.com


With the EcoBee I can add in a 4 event 7 day daily schedule (awake, work, home, asleep) and optimize my energy savings by doing this. I can add in vacation days up to a year in advance to turn up the AC if I will be out of town for a week. I can adjust my system from my phone...........

But really, how much of this do we really need in a trailer thermostat?

And beside this, my contention wasn't so much with the functionality, (even though I don't like to have to get out a book to reset temperature, ), but my contention was with the mind meld between the thermostat and the A/C unit via Cat 5 cable....

All of the things you mention could be done with a thermostat that is conventionally connected to the unit.

Or.... couldn't all of the control we really need be accomplished with simple controls mounted to the interior shroud of the unit?

Now, my 72 has a wall mount thermostat for the A/C, but the 75 I bought has the console mount controls. The functionality of the 75 is just as good as the 72, it turns out I dont need a wall mount at all, and really what does the five foot space between the unit and the thermostat accomplish in a trailer with a 26' footprint anyway?

(Btw I am sitting in my cool Airstream right now while taking a break from the heat....

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by m.hony

As much as I love my trailer, it is still way overpriced for what it is. For the money, it should be a little closer to problem-free. I hate when people try to dismiss the quality issues saying it is "a hand-built trailer". How many aircraft, boats, luxury cars, and super cars are hand-built and are higher quality than their assembly line counterparts?


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And bacon is overpriced for what it is..... but I still eat it...

Now for a philosophical question...

One of the recurring complaints I see on here is construction debris left in areas covered by cabinets etc... Is this truly a quality problem or is it just a perception problem?

[Denis4x4]

I perceive that if the workers don't clean up after themselves, that there is a lack of pride in doing the job and it may very we'll be reflected in other areas of the AS build.


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[r carl]

Think about this recall on a new truck.

June 25, 2014 — Ford has told dealers to stop selling certain model year 2014 F-150 pickup trucks and told owners to park the trucks.
The recall affects the power steering in 5,675 trucks equipped with the 3.7L and 3.5L EcoBoost V-6 and 5.0L DOHC V-8 engines. The action is an expanded recall from a few weeks ago of 372 model year 2014 Ford F-150s for the same problem.
Ford says they aren't aware of any accidents or injuries, but the defect could easily cause serious problems on the road. The trucks have motor position sensor magnets incorrectly installed in the electronic power assist steering gears. The defect could cause the Ford F-150 to lose all steering control, so just imagine trying to drive the truck on a highway without a steering wheel.
The recall should begin on July 7, 2014, and the automaker is adamant that all 2014 Ford F-150s stay parked until they are fixed.
With questions, call Ford customer service at 800-392-3673 and give them recall number 14S09.

[John&Vicki]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

And bacon is overpriced for what it is..... but I still eat it...

Now for a philosophical question...

One of the recurring complaints I see on here is construction debris left in areas covered by cabinets etc... Is this truly a quality problem or is it just a perception problem?

On the one hand I think it's kind of fun to find stuff like that - when it's many years after construction. It's kind of like archeology. But when you find it in something newer it's just litter. I do think it shows a sloppy mindset and lack of pride which causes concern that those things may carry over into the finished product.

My favorite story along these lines...

A guy in the U.S. bought a new Triumph. After a while he starting hearing a thunking sound when he accelerated and stopped. He brought the car into the dealer and they checked it over but couldn't find anything. The noise wouldn't go away so he kept bringing it back to the dealer. Finally, after removing a quarter panel, they found a Coke can with a note attached, "Finally found it, eh Yank?".

Poppy

[rodsterinfl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi View Post
My vintage is really closer to a hand built trailer than the new ones. Most of mine has been hand rebuilt by now, fifty years. Jim
Yep.

I truly believe that the highest quality Airstream you can buy is not an older one or a newer one. It's a trailer that has been owned, sorted and - wait for it - upgraded (!) by an owner who is a true enthusiast. We have many of them on this forum, true enthusiasts with maniacal attention to detail, we all know who they are. Their trailers are true post-production upgrades.

NOW THIS is one of the most profound ideas I have heard. I totally agree. Yesiree, by the time we rebuild the systems, seal the seams and get it all working, you betcha. This is an Airstream Platinum Line!

[m.hony]

Just the same as Apple products are overpriced- I think Airstream and Apple could charge half what they do and still remain profitable. Having said that, there is still some reason why 70% of all tablets sold are iPads and 70% of all Airstreams ever made are still camping. The main difference between Airstream and Apple is that by and large Apple products are problem-free...
Both Airstream and Apple will charge whatever they want to as long as we keep buying...
This trailer basically cost 4 times as much as my SOB but is only twice as good...therefore it should have only cost twice as much.
Toyotas seem to consistently cost about 2 grand more than a comparable Nissan model, and they seem to be just a little better-
Harleys always cost a little more than another brand, and are equally reliable it seems, but Harleys have that retro/art deco style like Airstreams- they get us with nostalgia...


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[m.hony]

Airstream still makes the best travel trailer made as far as I know.
I wonder about some of the big fifth wheels like Mobile Suites- if they are quality built. It seems to me any fiberglass sided laminate trailer or motor home will de-laminate- it's just a matter of time- fasters are better than glue in the long run.
Let's face it, we are all captivated by the style and the reputation we always heard Airstream has- everyone says Airstreams are the best campers. Whether that is really true is debatable. Is an Airstream really any higher quality than a Tiffin Allegro Bus?


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[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Birdmaestro

On the one hand I think it's kind of fun to find stuff like that - when it's many years after construction. It's kind of like archeology........
Poppy

When I pulled the sheet of plywood in the bath area to do some work and replace the plywood I found a perfectly preserved red Marks-a-lot marking pin between the plywood and the cross member. it had worn a perfect form fitting hole in the pink insulation and had ridden there for 40 years.

It still worked like new, I used it quite a bit in the remodeling of my trailer. I should have saved it for posterity... but I didn't...

I can't believe it worked after being pent up for 40 years,,,, now that is quality!

[J. Morgan]

How about this philosophical statement,,,

An upgrade that provides no tangible benefit is not an upgrade.

[rodsterinfl]

An upgrade that provides no tangible benefit is not an upgrade.

Fancy!

[SmokelessJoe]

true post-production upgrades.

I hope Poppy will count my Argosy project as such. Enthusiast, yes, maybe - 'Hope I'm not in the MANIACAL group though

Good, intelligent sharing of views here people. A pleasure to follow....

[J. Morgan]

It used to be that the fiberglass laminate stuff was applied over plywood. If the stuff is the same as it was it can delaminate in time, but my experience with this on truck bodies is that it is very durable ant it lasts a very , very long time. However, if water makes it to the plywood it is bad news. The fiberglass "skin" on the ply separates and forms unsightly bobbles, which in time crack and peel.

It IS less susceptible to impact denting and abrasion than aluminum by far. But aluminum looks better.


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[switz]

I vacuum the trailer floor fairly often, but after towing down the road awhile, I still find the helical aluminum shapes from drilling a hole somewhere...

At the factory at the end of the production line, there is a crew that actually climbs inside the bed frames to vacuum as best they can all the construction tidbits. But like everywhere else on the line, there is a finite time space allocated at each stopping point.

The target goal in January was to push from 50 to 53 units per week. So there are approximately 40 hours of clock time in a work week. There are multiple departments doing pre-fabrication of windows, doors, hatches, cabinets and furniture as well as putting the side skins on a huge flat table to pre-drill the rivet holes and openings. Each trailer does not spend very much time at each stop.

The longest build in terms of man hours was the 2014 or earlier 31' Classics with 300 man hours.

[J. Morgan]

One man for nearly eight weeks to build a trailer...

Every cabinet, every drawer, every rivet, every cut, every wire terminated, every weld on the frame.....

I don't know, even with automation this seems thin.

I am thinking that there are are most certainly some items that were pre fabricated and not included in that 300 hours.

I might be wrong, I haven't really been around any factories.


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[switz]

There are over 400 folks making sub assemblies as well fastening together, doing the plumbing and wiring, etc. All the Classic Hickory cabinets have been outsourced for many years and their construction and finishing efforts are not included in the 300 man hours.

[xrvr]

Yesterday a side orde of bacon with my seven grain pancake was three dollars and ninety five cents. Three slices. Overpriced? But is was an upgrade over the pancake alone! Tummy!! Jim

[m.hony]

The hickory cabinets in the Classic seem to be of good quality.
My trailer has many problems, but no problems with the cabinets.
The outsourced cabinet shop must have good quality control. It must be easier to maintain quality control in a factory with less processes.


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[rodsterinfl]

The longest build in terms of man hours was the 2014 or earlier 31' Classics with 300 man hours

I wonder how much of that time was installing ceiling pad and wall fabric insulation?

[ALUMINUMINUM]

“At the factory at the end of the production line, there is a crew that actually climbs inside the bed frames to vacuum as best they can all the construction tidbits.”


Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk