Newer is Not Necessarily an Upgrade

[J. Morgan]

And take note, even with the well known and well documented problems with Airstreams they are still highly sought after and maintain their value quite well when compared with competing products.

The company is in it to make money, and it seems as if they are. There is always a point of "good enough", this point is decided by the buyer.

For me good enough was a couple of old Worn out Sovereigns that I enjoyed returning to useful service for not a pile of money, and only doing work that needed to be done to end up with the trailer I wanted.

Other people have different wants and desires, other priorities, etc.

What I have noticed is that owners of new and old trailers alike gripe about build quality issues, but in my estimation there are more complaints from folks who have newer trailers, and a lot of the complaints are about things that are supposed to be new and improved.

Just an observation. Am I wrong?


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[J. Morgan]

Of course when things work just fine there is seldom a mention of this in a forum like this so the very existence of this forum does incite a negative bias.

Sound reason is a requirement of meaningful discussion!!

I also find that we will generally lend support to things we like. I like my Airstreams even though they are lowly Sovereigns. I don't have a lot of money in them so maybe they are easy for me to overlook their flaws and really like them?

By the way, if one looks back over my comments, it can be observed that at times I have conveniently been on both sides of the issue,,,, electric toilets and computer thermostats excluded, I hate these things either way. They are just too stupid to endorse.

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[PharmGeek]

Oh I hear ya....no, I cannot speak for ALL new owners...they could very well be a "demographic" that is slanted toward crying about the problems they failed to anticipate...

When I found my recent leak issue, I did not lose it, and I am still having a blast and am still happy with my airstream...reading on here I knew it was a possibility and it was part of my expectations.

My dealer told me the other day that he believed new buyers poking around surveying under the flooring for moisture is extremely rare..."1 in 75 are probably doing such a thing".....if that is true (and I have NO idea if it is) then it seems to me that 74/75 buyers are going to be at risk for floor rot down the road.

This is sad too cause the AS folks and the dealers are not detailing these 74/75 to use moisture meters etc etc...the process of discussing such a purchase with AS and a dealer it seems to me does not involve much worry about leaks...therefore they do not worry about such things?

Why is that? The whole process of buying a new one did not include much useful information on preventative maintenance and detection....only my talking with other owners has helped me do that.

I will gladly share quality problems online and do so no no cry like a baby for sympathy, but to inform others and help others find problems early and get them fixed...and I suppose by informing AS and my dealer they can improve their process and their product?

I kinda see you point though J. Morgan about how superficial and other distracting elements could distract from a core important quality standard. Makes since.

I hope that as a community we can always demand quality from a company we all seem to adore at the core of it.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

What I have noticed is that owners of new and old trailers alike gripe about build quality issues, but in my estimation there are more complaints from folks who have newer trailers, and a lot of the complaints are about things that are supposed to be new and improved.

Just an observation. Am I wrong?


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I suspect people that purchase old trailers expect to have to repair things, purchasing brand new they don't. Also IMHO a lot of folks don't do their due diligence and feel betrayed and upset when something does go wrong with their sizable investment.

FWIW my 1975 came with a couple of hidden issues. I still think I got a decent deal and when I finally get done with it I am sure I will be happier than I would be with a brand new unit with issues.

Warranties for the most part aren't worth the paper they are written on, unless you are running short of toilet paper. For me the best warranty is no warranty because I am going to usually fix it myself and usually be ahead of the game.

Most manufacturers really don't care about quality, good enough, get the money and move on. Not all manufacturers are that way, but a good share of them are.

Aaron

[xrvr]

I feel most Americans will find fault, either actual or imaginary, in everything. Most cannot be satisfied with any purchase or gift. That is how we have been taught and had it driven into us by the press and media. Everyone is a victim. I am not saying AS do not have problems. What I am saying is so often these problems are blown out of proportion. How many vintage owners find things that were wrong with their trailers for years and yet someone camped in it all those years. New upgrades raise the level expectation of the consumer. Can these upgrades pass the muster in a few years? Electric toilets and such , I believe, will not be in these trailers in ten or twenty years, being replaced with what we consider vintage, meaning simple items. So I believe the new stuff is upgrades, but only temporary until the need to replace comes around and restorers find it is better to replace with the older, less jazzy things. Jim

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

Most manufacturers really don't care about quality, good enough, get the money and move on. Not all manufacturers are that way, but a good share of them are.

Aaron

So would people say that about Airstream?

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by mikekey

So would people say that about Airstream?

I would... Their quality control is no better than the middle of the road SOB's. They just use better materials in the shell and some components.

Airstream could make HUGE improvements in their QC. I work for a company that has a very low tolerance for poor workmanship. Have a bad enough year and NOBODY gets a pay raise that year and they will tell you why. The company is privately held and does not have to answer to public shareholders, unlike Airstream.

Airstream obviously tolerates mediocre quality and profit matters more than QC.

Aaron

[Larry C]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Oi! Some Airstream owners are Government employees as well, you know! Can we say that the attitude goes from very top to very bottom, but skips the very middle?

There may be a very good chance of that! Interesting concept, hopeflly, most of us people are in the middle?

Larry

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

I would... Their quality control is no better than the middle of the road SOB's. They just use better materials in the shell and some components.

Airstream could make HUGE improvements in their QC. I work for a company that has a very low tolerance for poor workmanship. Have a bad enough year and NOBODY gets a pay raise that year and they will tell you why. The company is privately held and does not have to answer to public shareholders, unlike Airstream.

Airstream obviously tolerates mediocre quality and profit matters more than QC.

Aaron

I can see this. I originally was set on a new Airstream. I like them. But we went to a dealership to look at 2014's and there were things I noticed. Little things the average person might glance over. Kind of made me wonder.

My grandfather had a saying, "The higher the gloss the cheaper the product."

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by mikekey

I can see this. I originally was set on a new Airstream. I like them. But we went to a dealership to look at 2014's and there were things I noticed. Little things the average person might glance over. Kind of made me wonder.

Companies are in business to make money. They do that by charging as much as they can while paying out as little as they can. And targeting the non-savvy buyer who doesn't even realize that the quality has declined.

The fact that dealers are spread so thinly upon the ground works in their favor, too. Buyers in need of warranty repairs can't necessarily afford to travel that far to get the problem fixed, so they do it themselves or find someone local instead of going back to the dealer to get a free repair under warranty.

Since they sell Airstream trailers and Interstates faster than Jackson Center can roll them out the door, if last year's backlog of orders was anything to go by, Airstream has no incentive at the moment to improve their product, and in fact a lot of incentive to low-ball the cost of building one. Even the crappiest one will sell before the year is out.

If they started making trailers they couldn't sell, you can bet they'd listen when someone complains about the quality. So hopefully the effect will be self-limiting; quality will only drop to a certain level but no lower once the reduction impacts sales.

[Fly at Night]

This discussion reminds me of one of my favourite reads.....

John Ralston Saul : Non-Fiction - The Doubter?s Companion: A Dictionary of Aggressive Common Sense

[John&Vicki]

Originally Posted by Fly at Night

This discussion reminds me of one of my favourite reads.....

John Ralston Saul : Non-Fiction - The Doubter?s Companion: A Dictionary of Aggressive Common Sense

I'm always interested in a discussion of assumptions and worldviews, however tangential.

Poppy

[John&Vicki]

One of the reasons that newer is not necessarily an upgrade as that oftentimes, not always but oftentimes, newer is simply advancing form over function - the bright shiny object syndrome. New things are often slicker, shinier, more attractive, which gives them allure that attracts buyers. But objects that are intended to be functional don't always work better.

I really appreciate aesthetics, but I want my tools (I refer to items that exist to perform a function as tools) to do their job well every time over a long period of time. With tools, form follows function.

Poppy

[rodsterinfl]

Yes, this has got to be one of the best threads in a while!

You have it down Bird man. Form over function drives a lot. Interestingly as I have spent my hard earned dollars on my AS some things like upgrading the TV are nice -went to LED, larger, Smart, etc but in the end I have, a TV. At the lowest level the benefits are less power usage and larger screen. That is easier to justify but if I had simply purchased another TV (same size, etc) there is a sense of no gain or benefit. Years ago an older friend of mine did computer publishing on his grayscale mac SE. That thing was from 1987 but he said it did everything he needed and he knew how to do it all- this was in 2001. A fourteen year-old computer. I wouldn't doubt if he still had it- if alive. He moved.

Same idea with buying the fridge to replace my other one. Nearly $1400 and I have a refrigerator - oh, I had one before anyway. Justified only because of failure- no realized betterment.

Another thought is with basic and advanced models. Ironically a few months ago I purchased a canister vac. I focused in on a brand, Miele, and then started trying to pick a model from their 12 model lineup. It took me a while but in the end I realized that they really only had 3 model lines, the rest of the difference was color, included attachments and, in the upper line, electronic options - like phone answer stand-by, bag change reminder, filter check reminder, on hose suction control, bumper scratch guard, etc. Same power, same motor per se but sleeker look. Crazy. How hard is it to turn the thing off to answer the phone, check the bag and filter once in a while, etc.? Oh, and get this, the price doubles for these features!

[m.hony]

As much as I love my trailer, it is still way overpriced for what it is. For the money, it should be a little closer to problem-free. I hate when people try to dismiss the quality issues saying it is "a hand-built trailer". How many aircraft, boats, luxury cars, and super cars are hand-built and are higher quality than their assembly line counterparts?


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[xrvr]

My vintage is really closer to a hand built trailer than the new ones. Most of mine has been hand rebuilt by now, fifty years. Jim

[John&Vicki]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

My vintage is really closer to a hand built trailer than the new ones. Most of mine has been hand rebuilt by now, fifty years. Jim

Yep.

I truly believe that the highest quality Airstream you can buy is not an older one or a newer one. It's a trailer that has been owned, sorted and - wait for it - upgraded (!) by an owner who is a true enthusiast. We have many of them on this forum, true enthusiasts with maniacal attention to detail, we all know who they are. Their trailers are true post-production upgrades.

Poppy

[m.hony]

Yes, indeed.
Upgraded with:
Disc brakes
Solar
16" wheels
Inverter


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[Piggy Bank]

OK J Morgan, I can answer one of your questions. Why someone would want a fancy thermostat. (these are residential, not RV stats)

Look up EcoBee WiFi thermostats. I have one (disclosure, I work in the HVAC industry and sell them as well.)

https://www.ecobee.com


With the EcoBee I can add in a 4 event 7 day daily schedule (awake, work, home, asleep) and optimize my energy savings by doing this. I can add in vacation days up to a year in advance to turn up the AC if I will be out of town for a week. I can adjust my system from my phone. So I want to come home for lunch I can start cooling when I leave to office to get it to the lower temperature. If I am cold in the middle of the night in winter, I can adjust the temperature without getting out of bed. This all may sound unnecessary, but it saves about 20-30% on energy vs the typical user in my zip code. And I can get emails to remind me to change my air filter.

And if you have ever had your kids call you at work and say it's so hot in here, you can just look in real time and tell them, no it isn't!

Now I will say that if you are not away during the work day, then you may not need this. And if you can't see well, then frankly the old style Honeywell that clicks audibly when adjusted is better (which is what my parents, one of who has low vision, still use).

But it is nice to be 30 minutes down the road on a Friday after work, remember you forgot to set back the thermostat because you are going to be gone all weekend, and just take care of it from your phone right there.

[Denis4x4]

Originally Posted by m.hony

As much as I love my trailer, it is still way overpriced for what it is. For the money, it should be a little closer to problem-free. I hate when people try to dismiss the quality issues saying it is "a hand-built trailer". How many aircraft, boats, luxury cars, and super cars are hand-built and are higher quality than their assembly line counterparts?


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Wish I'd said this as it sums my feelings exactly for the cost vs. value when it comes to Airstreams.