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Old 09-23-2016, 12:19 AM   #57
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The other brands likely have the same failures / rate - at least from our previous experience - that holds true. The AS we have owned have had their own set of problems, but the mother ship and dealer stood behind them ...the same can't be said of our experience with SOBs. If we needed another, we'd buy AS again! WE hope to keep this until our funerals. Are AS too big to be buried in??? LOL
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Old 09-23-2016, 06:34 AM   #58
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I was in the same position

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTara View Post
Everyone keeps on talking about the "Depreciation Hit". I have been searching for a used 16' or 22' Bambi for the last year and the cost analysis shows that a brand new one is the same price as a used one.

Cost of trailer: MAYBE I can get a couple thousand dollar savings. Most people on Airstream Classifieds is MORE expensive than a new one of the same year/model/accessories

New functionality: Solar connector at batteries (would have to figure it out). Aluminum cover for the propane tanks - would have to pay for it.

New Stuff: Back bumper, rock guards, auto jack (extra regardless of what I buy)

Financing: This is where the game comes in. A new trailer can be financed at a lower percentage rate than a used trailer. (love those tax right offs for the interest)

Trade in Allowance: Trade in numbers fluctuate by how much you are buying. Buying new, better trade in allowance

Stuff thrown in: Discount numbers on accessories fluctuate by what you are buying.

Relationship with your local dealership: Invaluable and when you buy a new one, that relationship goes up.

I was running the numbers on a used 2015, new 2016 or a brand new 2017 (16'). Surprisingly, my monthly payments were LOWER on the 2017 (note a 40% down on the vehicle and Excellent credit) and the exact same accessories.

Oh and I get a 2 year new warranty and I am buying, hopefully, for life.

Someone needs to explain to me this depreciation hit everyone is talking about.

Tara
I was in the same boat as you (new vs used) and for me it came down to this huge selling point of the slightly older 16's vs new. The new 16's have a small window in the back and since most of the sites I would go to were back-in sites, view was criteria #1. I looked out the back of a new as well as a used (with panoramic windows and was immediately sold on the panoramic view.

At the end of the day; you can't go wrong with either, it comes down to preferences. Happy Shopping.
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Old 09-23-2016, 09:03 AM   #59
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Vernon , Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vis0rd0wn View Post
I was in the same boat as you (new vs used) and for me it came down to this huge selling point of the slightly older 16's vs new. The new 16's have a small window in the back and since most of the sites I would go to were back-in sites, view was criteria #1. I looked out the back of a new as well as a used (with panoramic windows and was immediately sold on the panoramic view.

At the end of the day; you can't go wrong with either, it comes down to preferences. Happy Shopping.
The double panorama are so very rare. I have seen a couple cross the sales sites. There is one I was eyeing but it sold so quickly.

Do you have the dark wood inside yours? One of my main reasons for passing on a couple of the 16' dual panoramas is they look so very dark inside.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:11 AM   #60
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2015 27' FB International
Wheatley , Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTara View Post
Everyone keeps on talking about the "Depreciation Hit". I have been searching for a used 16' or 22' Bambi for the last year and the cost analysis shows that a brand new one is the same price as a used one.

Cost of trailer: MAYBE I can get a couple thousand dollar savings. Most people on Airstream Classifieds is MORE expensive than a new one of the same year/model/accessories

New functionality: Solar connector at batteries (would have to figure it out). Aluminum cover for the propane tanks - would have to pay for it.

New Stuff: Back bumper, rock guards, auto jack (extra regardless of what I buy)

Financing: This is where the game comes in. A new trailer can be financed at a lower percentage rate than a used trailer. (love those tax right offs for the interest)

Trade in Allowance: Trade in numbers fluctuate by how much you are buying. Buying new, better trade in allowance

Stuff thrown in: Discount numbers on accessories fluctuate by what you are buying.

Relationship with your local dealership: Invaluable and when you buy a new one, that relationship goes up.

I was running the numbers on a used 2015, new 2016 or a brand new 2017 (16'). Surprisingly, my monthly payments were LOWER on the 2017 (note a 40% down on the vehicle and Excellent credit) and the exact same accessories.

Oh and I get a 2 year new warranty and I am buying, hopefully, for life.

Someone needs to explain to me this depreciation hit everyone is talking about.

Tara
ha....I can only agree, some AS owners in the Classifieds are asking more or less the same than a new one would sell for (figuring in an almost guaranteed 20% off the retail price). Go figure...
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:10 PM   #61
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2004 22' Safari
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Airstream Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Matt View Post
I didn't mean it confrontationally, but I feel like if you make sweeping statements, you should at least hint at backing it up. This is from someone who has only owned Thor products. I really don't know to what you are referring. I'm willing to hear it.

Personally, I haven't found anything that comes close. Good luck to the OP!

If an AF reader has to ask for specific quality examples, they must be an infrequent reader or living under a rock. When microwaves fall out because they are unattached, or water pours from walls because the pipes are not connected, I think those are obvious quality problems. I just read the daily highlights and I am convinced the claims of poor QC are justified. Most of the problems could be found by just looking carefully at the vehicle to start, and I would expect the manufacturer to do that BEFORE he sends it out of the factory.

When you increase your manufacturing floor space by 50% you have a challenge hiring good people to work in it. Those who have 20 years making your product are either already working there or retired and no longer interested in that work. Training programs might help, but they would only be as effective as the instructors and the students.

I can not accept a 'hand wave' that says anybody who is unhappy with the reports of quality problems is just grousing. I personally would like to see Airstream regain the reputation of quality it had in the past, since that would probably help my trailer maintain value... but I am not blind; I am not wearing blinders, and I am not so naive as to think that because some are accepting the obvious that they are just complainers.

I will agree that we probably hear from people who have trouble more than those who don't (those with trouble become more vocal) so it is difficult to determine what percentage of new units that are seriously bad, but to me, there are too many for me to take a chance.

I don't know (nor care) when Thor bought Airstream. I also don't care when the quality went south, but I believe it is seriously missing now, so I would challenge Thor to fix it, and if not then Airstream will probably go the way of the dinosaur.
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:21 PM   #62
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I agree with Silver.Sanctuary.

Would not take much to have an experienced, roving "quality" team looking over the shoulders of the workers. Maybe their pay could be commensurate with warranty claims that are identified to be sloppy work.

Some of the problems I hear of on AF are simply inexcusable considering the pile of money people lay out to acquire them.
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Old 09-23-2016, 09:28 PM   #63
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Let me ask this. What forum did the original owner of your vintage Airstream complain to when he saw water puddling under his sink? Could it be that you think there is better quality in your vintage because he fixed it before you got it? Maybe not, but it's worth asking.

I'm not saying that there aren't quality issues, issues that people have the right to be upset about, I just question the thinking that it's much worse now than it was. With all the forums and Yelp and other internet venues, I think we all just know about more of it now.
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Old 09-23-2016, 09:43 PM   #64
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2012 28' International
Waukee , Iowa
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Through my work I see the ins and outs of manufacturing at more than one brand. I have lived in a 28' AS International. It was fun and did the job but clearly badly built.

All manufacturers are generally good people and want to build a good product. There is no conspiracy. But there is absolutely a skillset shortage
due to location and under-capitalization. Elon Musk is not running these companies. They are scraping by and hiring welders at $16/hour.

The quality issues I see are basically a result of these things being 100% hand built in rural "factories" (big sheds). They don't even have a/c. Workers are genuinely banging this stuff together in 100+ degrees in the summer. They close the factory a few days a year when temperatures get too hot.

Some parts are milled on CNC machines etc. but ultimately this is an artisan thing. Not rocket science.

Visit the AS or Winnebago factories and the issue is obvious - you're not buying a modern car or anything like it. You're getting a sort of hand made shed thing on a trailer.

Can they provide great fun? Absolutely!
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