Newbie worried about the quality/problems

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by NorCal Matt

I didn't mean it confrontationally, but I feel like if you make sweeping statements, you should at least hint at backing it up. This is from someone who has only owned Thor products. I really don't know to what you are referring. I'm willing to hear it.

Personally, I haven't found anything that comes close. Good luck to the OP!

If an AF reader has to ask for specific quality examples, they must be an infrequent reader or living under a rock. When microwaves fall out because they are unattached, or water pours from walls because the pipes are not connected, I think those are obvious quality problems. I just read the daily highlights and I am convinced the claims of poor QC are justified. Most of the problems could be found by just looking carefully at the vehicle to start, and I would expect the manufacturer to do that BEFORE he sends it out of the factory.

When you increase your manufacturing floor space by 50% you have a challenge hiring good people to work in it. Those who have 20 years making your product are either already working there or retired and no longer interested in that work. Training programs might help, but they would only be as effective as the instructors and the students.

I can not accept a 'hand wave' that says anybody who is unhappy with the reports of quality problems is just grousing. I personally would like to see Airstream regain the reputation of quality it had in the past, since that would probably help my trailer maintain value... but I am not blind; I am not wearing blinders, and I am not so naive as to think that because some are accepting the obvious that they are just complainers.

I will agree that we probably hear from people who have trouble more than those who don't (those with trouble become more vocal) so it is difficult to determine what percentage of new units that are seriously bad, but to me, there are too many for me to take a chance.

I don't know (nor care) when Thor bought Airstream. I also don't care when the quality went south, but I believe it is seriously missing now, so I would challenge Thor to fix it, and if not then Airstream will probably go the way of the dinosaur.

[PaulnGina]

I agree with Silver.Sanctuary.

Would not take much to have an experienced, roving "quality" team looking over the shoulders of the workers. Maybe their pay could be commensurate with warranty claims that are identified to be sloppy work.

Some of the problems I hear of on AF are simply inexcusable considering the pile of money people lay out to acquire them.

[NorCal Matt]

Let me ask this. What forum did the original owner of your vintage Airstream complain to when he saw water puddling under his sink? Could it be that you think there is better quality in your vintage because he fixed it before you got it? Maybe not, but it's worth asking.

I'm not saying that there aren't quality issues, issues that people have the right to be upset about, I just question the thinking that it's much worse now than it was. With all the forums and Yelp and other internet venues, I think we all just know about more of it now.

[streamer_a]

Through my work I see the ins and outs of manufacturing at more than one brand. I have lived in a 28' AS International. It was fun and did the job but clearly badly built.

All manufacturers are generally good people and want to build a good product. There is no conspiracy. But there is absolutely a skillset shortage
due to location and under-capitalization. Elon Musk is not running these companies. They are scraping by and hiring welders at $16/hour.

The quality issues I see are basically a result of these things being 100% hand built in rural "factories" (big sheds). They don't even have a/c. Workers are genuinely banging this stuff together in 100+ degrees in the summer. They close the factory a few days a year when temperatures get too hot.

Some parts are milled on CNC machines etc. but ultimately this is an artisan thing. Not rocket science.

Visit the AS or Winnebago factories and the issue is obvious - you're not buying a modern car or anything like it. You're getting a sort of hand made shed thing on a trailer.

Can they provide great fun? Absolutely!

[Ursorock]

I have just sold my BaseCamp and was looking at a 25FB International as a replacement as we are now retired and can spend more time out boondocking anytime of year. I spent many hours fixing issues in the basecamp from replacing cheap componets to fixing leaks and electrical problems. Every trip I cam home with something to work on. This got old. The days at the Airstream dealer going over different trailers and looking at used one made me somewhat nervous about investing in one. One day I googled "best travel trailers' found Oliver Trailers. The engineering and build quality made the choice easy. There are options that come with high quality and superior design. Take a look. I'm glad I didi !

[Magpie Nest]

Not sure if anyone is still monitoring this thread... especially those who might be considering purchasing a (NEST). My wife and I are new owners of a 2019 Nest that we bought just 4 months ago. We LOVE the concept, design, colors, modern look... but the craftsmanship and quality control issues we have already encountered at downright pitiful.

I welcome anyone who wants to explore this topic further to see my post here on the forum:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f368...ml#post2239825

Maybe I am a "one-off" situation and other Nest owners are not feeling this level os disappointment. But if I am not... and there are others who are about to experience these problems, I feel for you.

[Magpie Nest]

Originally Posted by streamer_a

Through my work I see the ins and outs of manufacturing at more than one brand. I have lived in a 28' AS International. It was fun and did the job but clearly badly built.

All manufacturers are generally good people and want to build a good product. There is no conspiracy. But there is absolutely a skillset shortage
due to location and under-capitalization. Elon Musk is not running these companies. They are scraping by and hiring welders at $16/hour.

The quality issues I see are basically a result of these things being 100% hand built in rural "factories" (big sheds). They don't even have a/c. Workers are genuinely banging this stuff together in 100+ degrees in the summer. They close the factory a few days a year when temperatures get too hot.

Some parts are milled on CNC machines etc. but ultimately this is an artisan thing. Not rocket science.

Visit the AS or Winnebago factories and the issue is obvious - you're not buying a modern car or anything like it. You're getting a sort of hand made shed thing on a trailer.

Can they provide great fun? Absolutely!

This would explain A LOT! My post above, and the link to the thread, would fall right in line with the premise that the production line process is just "ran through" and little-to-no attention appears to be given to Quality Control.

Such a disappointment. Because I REALLY want to love this Nest.

[Gene]

Recent stories about Boeing's SC plant indicate sloppy workmanship evidenced by trash found in all sorts of storage areas, hidden amongst wiring and such. That was seen as an example of shoddy workmanship and sometimes dangerous behaviors as things like metal shavings can cause electrical problems and other things could interfere with the hydraulics.

People have been complaining about trash found in Airstreams for years and years—in walls, hidden areas, etc. When I opened the access plate for the fresh water tank plumbing, a large piece of cut aluminum fell on my face, fortunately deflected by my glasses. It could have caused nasty cut. The workers have no pride in their work or working conditions including pay are so bad they don't care.

[KK4YZ]

We keep our 23D in covered storage and haven’t seen leaks while on travel. But reading these stories i worry what kind of hidden leak or floor rot we’ll find down the road.

I’m a soon-to-be retired engineer and believe quality is designed into the product and reinforced in the manufacturing process. While at Jackson Center last year, we took a tour and all they could talk about was meeting their manufacturing volume goals and what new shipment records they were going to set.

All one has to do is look at the “care” with which they designed the AV system and the components they chose and you will see an attitude exposed...one that doesn’t exude quality, I’m afraid.

[Magpie Nest]

Originally Posted by Gene

Recent stories about Boeing's SC plant indicate sloppy workmanship evidenced by trash found in all sorts of storage areas, hidden amongst wiring and such. That was seen as an example of shoddy workmanship and sometimes dangerous behaviors as things like metal shavings can cause electrical problems and other things could interfere with the hydraulics.

People have been complaining about trash found in Airstreams for years and years—in walls, hidden areas, etc. When I opened the access plate for the fresh water tank plumbing, a large piece of cut aluminum fell on my face, fortunately deflected by my glasses. It could have caused nasty cut. The workers have no pride in their work or working conditions including pay are so bad they don't care.

Thanks for the comment. I guess I am just finding myself much more disappointed than most, as I went into the AS buying process honestly feeling like I was buying a quality product. There’s a preconceived notion that when a company boasts “Made in the USA” it implied craftsmanship. I mean, am I wrong to believe this?

I’m not naive either. And I don’t don’t live in some fantasy world where I do not realize that failures in manufacturing happen. Absolutely they do. But that is where the company Company in question can make a huge impact on its current, and future, customers by showing a little integrity.

[Magpie Nest]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

We keep our 23D in covered storage and haven’t seen leaks while on travel. But reading these stories i worry what kind of hidden leak or floor rot we’ll find down the road.

I’m a soon-to-be retired engineer and believe quality is designed into the product and reinforced in the manufacturing process. While at Jackson Center last year, we took a tour and all they could talk about was meeting their manufacturing volume goals and what new shipment records they were going to set.

All one has to do is look at the “care” with which they designed the AV system and the components they chose and you will see an attitude exposed...one that doesn’t exude quality, I’m afraid.

Sadly, this is seeming to be so true!

[Magpie Nest]

I’ve posted this on the main thread I have running about all my concerns, but since this has also gained a few readers, I thought I would share this here too:

I am honoring my agreement with AS to not make the video live on YouTube - for now - but I have decided to post it here to give anyone who wishes to view it a chance to tell me: Am I wrong? Are these not defects? Is this something that others think the the dealer should, or can, fix?

youtu.be/1ZNn0HTLn-c

Due to spammer issues, the forum won’t let me post the video as a link. If any care to see the video for themselves, you can just copy/paste the address above.

[ZOZ]

We bought our first AS. After comparing AS with SOBs, it was an easy desision.

Our AS has had zero major problems on several long and short trips. Everything mechanical or electrical works.

The shower leaked. I fixed it with tub and tile sealer. The overhead locker door pulled out from it's bracket. Instead of three screws the facory used I put in another in the vacant bracket hole. No issues since. The window OceanAir shade plastic bracket broke on a trip. AS sent me a new one. I attributed that to overfilling my Goodyear GYE tires. One of my window screw outside cap was missing. The AS dealer gave me one NC. That's it. So far.

I installed the new fantastic fan shades on my AS. This was the only improvement I wanted.

I'm considering a 2020 AS Globetrotter 23FB-Twin. But then I think, gee mine is issue-free. Why would I want to try another that MAY have issues?

It's a crap shoot. But AS's are nuts and bolts and rivets. They are fixable. Life is short. Get the best out of life and your AS as you can.

Randy

[mefly2]

Magpie - you are loading up several threads with your speculations about not getting proper warranty repair ...WITHOUT even giving your dealer or the mother ship a chance to address the issues. Sad situation for you ... but enough until you let them at least try to fix the potential defects. We have been down that road, too, and understand your frustration.
Realize that your (or anyone's for that matter) RV / trailer is like a paint mixer on wheels when you head down the road and virtually everything is subject to those road forces ... often with disastrous results. Give the warranty folks a chance ...
We are on RV #4 ... only one of them has been relatively trouble free. One was a total disaster ... and two were almost usable! It is a crap shoot at best ... advise making cure that you buy from a reputable dealer; otherwise, you have limited support.

[Magpie Nest]

Originally Posted by mefly2

Magpie - you are loading up several threads with your speculations about not getting proper warranty repair ...WITHOUT even giving your dealer or the mother ship a chance to address the issues. Sad situation for you ... but enough until you let them at least try to fix the potential defects. We have been down that road, too, and understand your frustration.
Realize that your (or anyone's for that matter) RV / trailer is like a paint mixer on wheels when you head down the road and virtually everything is subject to those road forces ... often with disastrous results. Give the warranty folks a chance ...
We are on RV #4 ... only one of them has been relatively trouble free. One was a total disaster ... and two were almost usable! It is a crap shoot at best ... advise making cure that you buy from a reputable dealer; otherwise, you have limited support.

Well stated. You make a very valid point. I am reasonably frustrated and it obviously shows.

I have been given an appointment with the dealership to perform a thorough examination of my Nest on May 16th. The service manager has assured he will attend the matter personally.

If I am coming across as speculative as to the dealership’s ability, then I can see that the reader may feel I am not allowing due diligence. Of course, this leaves out a considerable amount of frustration ALREADY piled upon to my overall experience with the dealership to begin with.

Upon purchasing the Nest, the “service technician” assigned to our orientation literally knew less about the trailer than we did. His comment was (as I remember it) akin to, “Wow. You really know this camper... I’m learning from you.” It’s new. I get it. But, that doesn’t instill a great deal of confidence right off the bat.

While sitting with the finance officer, in the process of him excessively trying to encourage us to buy cleaning products, memberships, etc. he also misinformed my wife and I about the length of the AS factory warranty. Stating it was 1 year from time of the original purchase. In light of this fact, he was better positioned to up-sale us on their extended warranty. After learning directly from AS that the warranty was actually 3 years, we asked the the dealer to please cancel and refund our money for the extended warranty. They bucked a little, but in the end, honored our request.

4 months later, and we are still waiting for that refund check. And trust me... that is a whole thread in its own right.

BEFORE we even paid for the camper, we bought a more capable tow vehicle. It was not equipped with a tow package. The dealer assured us they could do the install for us and an appointment was set for the same day I would be picking up my Nest. Upon arrival, (which is a good 1.5 hour drive one way) I was informed that they could do the install of the 7 way because it was “European, and too complicated”.

Frustrated - understandably, I feel - I left with empty-handed... no tow package, and obviously no Nest.

Now, perhaps I am hitting all of this too heavy-handed. Perhaps.

But, if you can’t see my reasoning for being upset AND concerned at the dealer’s ability to fix this problem. Well, then I guess we can respectfully agree to disagree.

Still, you make a valid point. And I can appreciate that. Thank you.

[Gene]

We too had many leaks in the Airstream. Mostly, I fixed them. Some were poor workmanship, some poor design. Our Nash trailer has had no leaks. I guess you can manufacture a trailer without leaks.

I am unsure, Magpie, whether the dealer for the tow vehicle has made it difficult to get a tow package installed, but I suppose it is. The 7-way trailer plug has been standard for quite a few years (there is also a 4-way, but it is for smaller utility style trailers or old travel trailers) and any truck or car dealer should know how to install one. A suspension shop dealing with trailers (many do) would have no problem with installing the plug and may be able to help you with a tow package installation once you get the parts.

You were sold an extended warranty based on false information used to induce you into entering a contract An Airstream dealer that doesn't know the length of the warranty is so poorly organized I would fear going back there. Small claims court may be able to help you.

When we bought our Airstream years ago the dealership guy who had the ownership documents tried to sell us an extended warranty with all sorts of lies. When I told him "no" several times, he turned to my wife and tried to scare her ("it's an earthquake on wheels"). Coming between a couple like that would be grounds for walking out, but we just told him to stop that crap if he wanted to sell the trailer. Yes, trailer bounce a lot and so do cars and trucks, but they rarely leak, screws rarely back out, trash isn't found inside the walls, stuff doesn't break in a few months. And yes, travel trailers are complex, but look at what's under the hood of your truck, or inside the dash, or all the wires all over it. Cars and trucks made in this country were getting pretty trashy until foreign manufacturers send better made vehicles here and even now US manufacturers haven't caught up decades later. US made no longer means well made.

[lsbrodsky]

You do, indeed, have a right to be frustrated and upset. There are many examples of past posts with people expressing the same emotions. Seems like the posts fit into two categories: either the lack of Airstream quality or the lack of dealer capability. I do not recall posts about the capability of Jackson Center repair. It has been reported that the repair people are some of the most experienced and the newbies work the new builds. Obviously an interesting strategy if that has been true all these years.
Also there are a few dealers where people only have praise for their attitude and capabilities. Problem is, only a few dealers. We all want Porsche-like service, but that is not generally provided. My dealer is 4 hours away, gets good reviews, has always fixed anything I required, but is so slammed that one cannot describe service as reasonable. Who would tolerate leaving their car at a dealer for 11 weeks for a part replacement, especially a part that the factory probably stocks?
In my opinion, people who sing the praises of owning an Airstream without the caveats have the luck to own a newer model that was built right, have acquired it just after everything was fixed, and/or have never tried to repair many of the things that break. In the end, I think we all end up saying something like " I bought this thing to enjoy getting out with family/friends, seeing parts of North America I would not normally see, and hauling around a mini-home for a time. So I will tolerate all of the faults, to a degree"
I know from experience that fuming about the problems can affect both your mental health and the enjoyment that might be there.
Like I suggested before, just take it to Jackson Center and have it fixed to like-new. If they don't fix it, escalate or threaten to, and see what your options are. I just cannot believe that they will initially offer to do anything except repair it. They would be bankrupt if they replaced every trailer with problems.
Larry

[Gene]

The dealer who sold us the Airstream was so bad, we took it to Jackson Center twice to fix warranty issues and a few other things we wanted to add. They treated us well at JC and even didn't charge for a few things they were not legally responsible for. That was a decade ago, so I can't tell you it is still the same, though I have not seen anything indicating it has changed. The strange thing is the factory is sloppy and the repair facility is not. It is like two different companies.

Airstreams are iconic and the basic design is a very good one, though the floor plans could use major updating. Thor Industries has not been a good steward of Airstream. Thor makes tons of profits selling mediocre trailer brands and they are buying other companies. They bought Jayco, previously family owned, a couple of years ago and now that is another brand to avoid. There has been a price war among RV companies and with prices being steady or going down, quality gets worse. Few brands have escaped this. I was recently told half a million RV's are sold each of the past few years (no wonder reservations are more necessary at campgrounds), so manufactures can sell any crap they make. When we decided to get a different trailer with a bit more space, we concentrated on the few companies that had a decent reputation. Given what we could get within Colorado, that meant hardly any brand if we wanted a travel trailer. After we had many, many problems with our Airstream, we contemplated selling it after less than a year. I'm glad we didn't, but the disappointment was always there. We knew very little when we first got into RV's and we paid for it. I hope everyone else's experiences are better.

[Mansderm161]

Originally Posted by Magpie Nest

I’ve posted this on the main thread I have running about all my concerns, but since this has also gained a few readers, I thought I would share this here too:

I am honoring my agreement with AS to not make the video live on YouTube - for now - but I have decided to post it here to give anyone who wishes to view it a chance to tell me: Am I wrong? Are these not defects? Is this something that others think the the dealer should, or can, fix?

youtu.be/1ZNn0HTLn-c

Due to spammer issues, the forum won’t let me post the video as a link. If any care to see the video for themselves, you can just copy/paste the address above.

I watched the whole video and you have very legitimate concerns. It really needs to go back to Jackson center. The dealers, even if they could fix it, would likely take a long time, like months. If you go to Jackson and have the time to wait, everything will get done, plus you can go out and watch them and ask questions. You can't leave it in it's current state with the Texas heat....it would likely just get worse.

[Magpie Nest]

Originally Posted by Gene

. We knew very little when we first got into RV's and we paid for it. I hope everyone else's experiences are better.

Thanks, Gene and Larry.

You both offer up some sound advice and I appreciate that. Gene, your quote above is where I feel my greatest short-coming is at this moment. And in a way, I guess maybe I only have myself to blame. I thought I did my research before making the purchase, but with a camper so new, with so little info out there, I just didn’t know what to look for by way of potential problems. That, and also riding on the notion that AS was a quality-oriented company. Not to say they aren’t! Please, I’m not casting a blanket here... I’m just stating I didn’t anticipate the lack of quality I’ve experienced.