Newbie Questions - pre purchase anxiety

[lealea75]

Hello all!

We are deep in the process of looking for an AS and doing research here.
But now I am more confused about whether or not this is the best decision. Although I am handy (and my brother is a carpenter and my dad is handy with pluming and electrical things), I am beginning to question my sanity and regretfully admitting my husband may be right

Is it totally illogical to think that we can find a 70's model that will be not have to be completely rebuilt? I am having nightmares about full monty rebuilds. I know I am not up for that. I am totally up for a bit of repair work and not at all intimidated by the looks of shabby upholstery, carpet etc as I know I can handle that, but the idea of shell-on vs shell off, replacing sub-floor, etc is freaking me out!

I guess what I am trying to say is that I wanted the camper to actually get out and camp, not sitting in the driveway for years for me to rebuild...

ok, talk me off the ledge or give me a push
thanks

[AnnArborBob]

It is possible to find a 1970's vintage Airstream that does not need a major restoration but such units rarely come to the open market as the owners of such units usually have plenty of "friends" who are standing by to buy the unit the moment the owner wants to sell.

If you do find a unit of this vintage that you like, that appears sound to you, and that has been used recently, contact one of the experienced inspectors in your area by using the drop down menu on the right side of this Forum's main page and have them take a look at it.

Beware of so-called "barn finds" and units that have sat unused for several years. Like anything else, Airstreams deteriorate over time if not used regularly, maintained and stored properly. Many folks have excitedly purchased an older Airtream with the intention of "fixing it up" only to realize what a major undertaking that can be. You will find a lot of "half finished" restoration jobs out there. If you have the skills, time and money, buying such a unit can be a good thing as the current owner will be motivated to get rid of it and is likely to have stripped out the junk exposing the bare floor so you can better assess the condition of this most important part of the trailer.

If you really want an older "camping ready" Airstream, be realistic and prepared to pay the price.

Good luck!

[PaulnGina]

If you are considering an Airstream, broaden your search to an Avion. With patience, you'll easily find what you are looking for: a nice trailer at a reasonable price.

What size trailer have you been looking for?

To give you an example: I knew I wanted a 34', rear-bedroom Avion. I patiently watched Craigslist (via SearchTempest.com) until a REAL DEAL showed up. Had to go 1,000 miles one-way to get it, but it's now OUR 1987 Avion 34W, and I bought it for $4,000! It needed lots of detailing (which I have done and am still doing), brakes, shocks, tires, roof sealing, misc other little stuff....... no "gutting", "shell-off", fumigating, etc. I haven't totalled all of the expense (luckily, I work CHEAP!!), but I would guess I've spent at least another $4,000 over the initial $4,000 cost, and we have a VERY nice trailer now. It's built differently than an Airstream (like a tank!!!), but still has that beautiful silver glow!!

Try this link: PaulnGina's 1987 Avion 34W - Photo Gallery

It ought to take you to some pictures of our trailer.

Deals ARE out there, but patience is the key.

[moosetags]

What you are looking for is a pretty tall order unless you are prepared to pay top dollar.

Even paying top dollar does not insure a good campable Airstream. As Bob said, if you are looking at an Airstream that has not been on the road and camped in in fifteen or twenty years, you probably don't want it.

Restoring a forty year old Airstream can easily turn into a decade long process.

Brian

[msmcv51]

My question to you if I may, what is your price range. I have heard that some of the 70s trailers were built when Beatrice Foods owned Airstream and you need to be very carful of those years. On the other hand the mid 80s to very early 90s were some of the best built. This may be hearsay, but it is what I have heard.

[mandolindave]

For some, their Airstream itself IS their hobby. To me it's a tool that I use for music festivals.

How much can you afford, and how anxious are you to get out and enjoy it.

Do you really want a cool vintage camper, AND be able to use it soon. It can be done, but it will cost a bit of money

[lealea75]

Using the camper is the top priority. I would prefer to not finance it and that i why was thinking that an older model might be better...but newer with all things working is obviously becoming more appealing

[adonh]

Mid 70's Airstream will be 40 years old. If you are looking for a "stock" unit they are out there, but yes they will need some serious updates, remodel and refurbishing. Ask Duke.

[Landrum]

Have you considered looking at a slightly "newer" Airstream? Late 80's? Obviously the newer the AS the more likely to find one that only needs cosmetic updates.


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[Jarrod White]

I'll second Paula's recommendation to consider an Avion. Replacing axles, soft floors and shell off restorations are extremely unlikely and rare for an Avion of any vintage. You may have to do some work on systems (ac, fridge or plumbing), seal seams and of course consider updating upholstery or inside but nothing that will keep you from camping quickly.

[Jaxon]

Originally Posted by adonh

Mid 70's Airstream will be 40 years old.

Holy Sheets! The 70's can't be that long ago!

[SIWELC]

WOW! You must have read my thoughts. I'm also thinking a 70s something model might be good to look for, price wise, and thinking about my pocket book. I spotted one several weeks ago that sounded like it might be a good deal. However, I asked several questions in an email message and before I got an answer, someone already bought it. It was too far from where I live to run right over and look at it. I figured, that's ok, I'll just keep looking. I like your ideas of looking at an 80s to 90s model, hoping to find one in better condition, and in need of less work. I'll have to search for an Avion and see what that looks like. I don't think I've seen them yet.

[tintent74]

Welcome to our forum! It's a great resource!

It looks to be like you have thought a great deal about how much work you are willing to tackle. Like others have said, sometimes people have great intentions, but haven't really considered all the work and expense that might be involved. That's why there are so many half-finished "restorations" out there!

Like you say, it will be nice if you can use your Airstream as soon as possible. Maybe camping relatively close to home would be helpful, at first, while you can get more accurate feel for its condition and what changes / fixes you want to make.

We bought a 27', 1974 Airstream Overlander back in 1995, from a dealer who took it in on trade. It was very dirty, and the water lines had been frozen and needed to be replaced. The dealer had decided there was too much labor involved and was going to junk it. So we got a sweet deal.

My husband is handy, so he had no problem replacing the water pump and lines, while I cleaned (and cleaned and cleaned!) We ended up with a cozy camper that we installed on some vacation property as our tin tent. It spent a decade up there, in hot summer sun and cold, snowy winters. Obviously, that didn't do it any good, but the Airstream worked perfectly for us up there. (Airstreams of that era were designed to be able to function well off grid, if necessary, and ours did).

Now we're ready to open a new chapter in our lives and use our Airstream for traveling. The frame was sagging a bit on both ends, when we bought it, so we decided to do a shell-off restoration now and get that dealt with. The last thing we want is to have problems on the road!

My husband is doing the work himself. He did find areas in the frame that needed attention, but it was not nearly as bad we feared. Now the frame is back in great shape, and he will lay down a new deck (the sub-flooring). He'll replace all the insulation and reassemble the Airstream.

Meanwhile, we had the original couch restored, with new foam and upholstery, and we ordered new Airstream curtains to match the originals. We'll also replace the original carpet with something that matches the original (but be of better quality).

Yes, it gets expensive. We've spent about $4k, so far, (including custom curtains and upholstery), but since my hubby is doing all the work himself, we've saved on that. And, we know the quality of the work is up to his high standards, which is important to us.

With regard to whether mid-70's Airstreams are built well (during the time Airstream was owned by Beatrice Foods), he has found that, with a few exceptions, they are. There are things he believes could have been done better on the frame, for example, but those exceptions were not problematic -- especially considering that this trailer is over 40 years old and has had a hard life.

We love the look and design of the mid-1970's Airstreams. So we have chosen to do a real restoration, rather than the gutting / remodeling that is so often called a restoration. In our opinion, the interior design of this era of Airstream was very well thought out and designed. Plus we believe that vintage Airstreams that look as original as possible will hold their value better.. That remains to be seen, of course.

Really, it's all about what you're looking for and what your camping / traveling style will be. For example, we're boondockers. We go camping to be out in Nature. We drag that poor thing over some very rough and winding dirt roads, so it's important to us that the structure be sound. And, since we'd rather watch our campfire than be inside watching TV, we don't care about such things. If it's raining, we cozy up inside with a good book or play games together. But that's not everyone's style, so I think it's helpful to consider your style and preferences.

The internet can be a great resource for getting a feel for price, based on age and condition. As I'm sure you've already discovered, there are a number of sites out there that cater to those who are buying and selling trailers and RVs beyond just craigslist and ebay.

Once you have a feel for the era, floor plan, condition and price you want to pay, I think patience will be helpful. And, in addition to your dad and brother, perhaps there are people on this forum that live near enough to you that they would be willing to help you check out a potential prospect, based on what they've learned.

One other thing: See if you can find a copy of the original Airstream price list and list of options and upgrades for the exact model you're considering. That will be a huge help as you check out your prospective purchase. You'll be able to better identify whether you're looking at a basic model or not, and whether a higher sticker price may be justified.

We only recently found the list for our year, length and model. Wow, what an eye opener! Fortunately for us, we learned that whoever originally purchased our Airstream had added almost every option and upgrade available, increasing their overall purchase price by a huge amount. ( I wish I could remember where we found that list. If I do, I will let you know.)

There were tons of options and upgrades available, and they were often expensive. We were not aware of even a fraction of them, before we saw this list. Some options were biggies, others were minor. As just one example, having two steps on the entry stairs, rather than one. Even "minor" conveniences like that can add up to a big difference in comfort and convenience.

It sounds like you have your eyes open, are doing your homework, and you don't seem impulsive, so I think you'll do fine. We went into our Airstream adventure knowing nothing, and it has worked out fine for us. Part of that was dumb luck, and part has been my husbands skill and expertise. Just remember, if what you buy doesn't turn out to be a good fit for you, you can always sell and try again. A hassle, to be sure, but your first Airstream doesn't have to be a "forever" purchase.

I hope there is something in here that you'll find helpful. Again, welcome to the forum!
.

[Landshark]

In 2001, we bought our first Airstream, a 1977 Safari, from an A/S dealer. We paid a fair amount, but the dealer guaranteed that all systems were go and it was ready to take out. It was in quite good shape: curtains and soft goods inside were like new, everything worked properly and we have had a great time with it.

It had belonged to an older guy who used it to go fishing, and when he passed away, the heirs didn't want it and so it wound up on the dealer's lot.

Maybe we were just lucky, but we kept our eyes open to relatively local ads, and we have been successful twice now. So wait, possess your soul in patience, watch the local ads (so you can see for yourself just how good/bad it is), and sooner or later it will turn up. And be sure to call on the ad immediately!

I know of a local single-owner 70s Overlander, with its original tow vehicle, both in mint condition, sitting in a back yard that I found by just driving around. You can find them that way, too. I'm keeping my eye on that one and contact the owner 1-2 times a year to see if he's ready to sell yet.

Just be patient, keep your eyes open, and don't settle for less than you want in the way of condition.

Vivian

[JimGolden]

What length do you want? If you're looking for a mid 70's trailer, you need to be extra careful of anything over 27' in length. They had a 4" deep frame back then. It was fine for a 20 footer, OK for a 25 footer, and barely passable for a 27 footer. But if you got a Sovereign or Excella 31 footer and the owner towed it with out of balance wheels and kept his blacksmith tools in the back, you are likely to have frame sag and body separation. (Look up SAG and SEPARATION on these forums). They changed the frame mid year 1985 to a deeper one which pretty well fixed the problem. So if you could swing it, I'd look for a 1986 or newer.

Now that being said, I think the older 31 footers were some of the best looking trailers ever made. The 28 footers looked good too, but I think the 31's had the best proportions. It is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE that you could find and old, long one, with an undamaged frame and no sag or separation. If you do, that is GOLD. Fix it up to however you like. But realize that you better get your tires balanced, it wouldn't hurt to pull your brake drums off and balance those as well, keep all heavy stuff in the front while traveling, and take it EASY on bumpy roads.

The easy answer is get something 1986 or newer. Or get an older one shorter than 28'. But, you can get an old long one that is not broken, just inspect it carefully.

For Separation, have your 200lb friend get on the back bumper and bounce up and down. While he's doing that, you squat down at eye level and look at the juncture at the rear of where the body meets the frame. If you see a gap opening and closing, you have "Separation" where the body tie down rotted away from the frame. You either run away (recommended action) or negotiate the price down to about $50. For Sag, at the front of the trailer, sight down the length of it along the beltline trim. If you see it angle downward aft of the axles....she's got sag. Run away from that; unless you are willing to do a full on shell of resto with a new frame.

Summary: check the frame for Sag/Separation. Better to "walk away" from a trailer that has either/both of these. Go '86 or newer and you eliminate 95% of these two issues.

Best of luck,

[Sodbust]

After seeing under the skin rot of a stick and staple wonder,, or as they called here,, SOB,,, I knew I would never be happy with another non Airstream. I had seen a add for a 72 Overlander and it started at $36.000.. I kept running into it off and on over a 3 year time span. It looked good in the add photos but knew that one had to be careful.

The start of the 4th year of seeing the same trailer between Craigslist,, and eBay the price was down to $9500.. Since the fellow lived a good days drive away I called him and asked if he might discount items and lower the price once there to see it first hand.

Body solid but axles were shot,, with cheap China tires.. A 18" hole in the bedroom wall to get to the power converter as he could not open the outside door.. By the time we discounted for the need repairs the price was down to $6500...

So the point is,, keep looking, and looking again even at the same trailer listed over and over again as it gets too the point they have to sell. We are more than happy with ours.. Mostly cleaning and updating with a gray water tank and oiling up and cleaning the furnace is all we had to do other than axles.

A good jump on the rear bumper and eye ball the sides tells you about all you need to know,, along with a screw driver or ice pick around the edges..

Good luck,, Sodbust

[Air4563]

If you are looking at a 70s model, I would look at a center bath model. The rear bath models have a larger bathroom but were more likely to have rear droop. That being said,have any prospect inspected closely. I have a 75 31 foot which I bought in '87. Over the years I have had to replace many things including refrigerator, ac, water heater, furnace,etc. I now have a unit that has been to Wisconsin, New Orleans, Blue Ridge, etc. I love my AS.The only way I would part with it would be for a 34'.

[goodshepherd]

We sold our '79 this past winter. We had maintained it well and it was a wonderful unit. The person who bought it "wanted" to redo it so he has - but it didn't need to be redone. Yes, it had some "gliches" but nothing that was a complete redo. So - the units are out there - just look around. And, if you are the least bit handy - fixes can be minor and, if you're willing to spend the time, done in a week with only a dollar or two spent!!!

Good luck!!

[lealea75]

Everything you guys have warned about is true! Lol! We are spending the weekend viewing the local trailers. Today's gem was a 1985 25' sovereign. Older couple who claimed to be second owners, lived in one year while building their house, don't really use it, etc...
We arrive at their farm and the camper looks ok on outside, driver's side rock guard was missing, no major dents and very few dings. He gives us the once over very generally. Can answer basic questions, but nothing too specific. He and my husband start the outside once over & I immediately start digging around under the sofa & under beds.
Under the sofa the floor is soft from the broken rock guard ( and actually the window under was broken & replaced with plexiglass) and it has rusted through the black plastic area on the exterior ok. So I understand what that means. I pulled the carpet back a bit but hard to tell how bad it is at this point and how far. I can feel a bit of softness just in front of the sofa facing.
By this time he has water connected and insists on showing plumbing works. I was luckily rooting around under the beds when water started shooting out of the water heater and the plastic tubing. When I pulled the carpet up back there the floor is shot too. See photos.
At this point we have said our "thanks, but no thanks" and have walked away. So, I am willing myself to be patient and continue the search.

[NavyCorpsman]

I had looked at several AS's until I found "THE one". Most had been used as a DEER CAMP SPECIAL, and all were pretty rough, and not worth the asking price.
Take the extra time to find "THE one" you want.
Mine is 37 years old. It has taken a lot of research and effort to find all the missing pieces. But that is what makes it fun! I got a fold out couch and divider curtains from Indiana, original curtains (In Very Good condition) from Florida, along with a pair of obsolete vanity light covers in near perfect condition. I would not have them without the help of fellow Streamers that are passionate about their hobby and way of life.
Owning an old AS transcends having a travel trailer. Anyone can have a travel trailer. Having an old dented AS is better than a new whatever. Its a piece of living American history that has endured the test of time.

A word of humble advice. Even though you have able bodied craftsmen "at the ready" , If Hubby isn't happy, you will be puling a dead horse. I hope you can find on that you can get excited about, together. There will always be something to fix of replace. Knowing that, the "disappointments" wont be as traumatic, and working on them 'together" will be more enjoyable.

Search the Forum Classifieds and look in your area. Call out for an inspector on the forum. We all want to see you get a good deal that you both will be happy with.
Clayton