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m.hony · 01-30-2016, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

It would change the game for Airstream. Mr. Wheeler, are you reading this? These wooden sub-floors are a dang nightmare.

Airstream actually used something like this back in the '70's on the Argosy line for a couple years. I'm no expert on the subject, but I think it was more of a honey comb structure. Every once in a while here on the forums one of those old Argosy's will surface from a new buyer. They are always bewildered by the one-of-a-kind sub-floor. The experts are always quick to tell them what a rare find they have.

Yeah.
No more humps in the floor.
No more bounce in the floor.
And most importantly, no more soft floors/floor rot.

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OTRA15 · 01-30-2016, 07:03 PM

Thanks for the extensive notes and photos, Jim & Susan,

Every sub-floor material has its pros and cons. Aluminum such as here will transmit cold/heat and sound faster, condensate instantly, and corrode in a salty air environment or from tire spray from salt-water puddles (very common where we like to travel).

Modern marine-grade plywood it seems to me could eliminate the problems caused by the old wood-based sub-floors, and the square footage of even a larger Airstream would not break the bank to upgrade to marine plywood IMO. Sound deadening and insulation value (albeit slight) are superior to aluminum. It can be customized by the average skilled owner (cut, patched, etc.) more easily . . . Weight is obviously a disadvantage, unless the aluminum sub-floor gets another floor on top of it.

My guess is that living in an all-aluminum trailer might not be that comfortable sound-wise.

It will be interesting to see what Thor/Airstream announces . . .

cameront120 · 01-30-2016, 07:33 PM

Organic flooring materials will always be the weakest link. An extruded aluminum floor can be protected against moisture and salt and be insulated to eliminate thermal transfer and condensation. I don't know why Airstream is so reluctant to make this change. The cost isn't that huge and I would gladly pay more if I knew I wasn't getting organic structural materials in an inherently leaky design.

dkottum · 01-30-2016, 08:25 PM

Airstream could improve the performance of their plywood floor if they used floor coverings at the edges and insulation under the floor that would allow the floor to dry when it inevitably becomes wet from leaks, condensation or an accidental open window in the rain.

As it is, the plywood is vapor tight top and bottom, with the plywood edges open in the c-channel at the bottom of and inside the wall envelope. Water leaks or condenses and drains down inside the wall where it is conveniently collected at the plywood edge, and readily wicks deep into the plywood subfloor.

Right now I have unscrewed the narrow plastic base at the rear perimeter of our Airstream, and lifted the vinyl finish floor at the edge with some little plastic props to hold the edge up. A temporary "just in case" measure until I can find an attractive, porous material to replace about 2 - 4 inches of the vinyl finish floor around the perimeter. I think that will help, and has when we had some condensation in there last spring. Looking for an attractive, porous "band" material to place here, something to allow the moisture to evaporate if or when it comes in?

'55 Airlight · 01-30-2016, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

Also didn't think to crawl under the camper and "look up". Dang, should've thought of that.

No belly pan, huh? Meh...

Piggy Bank · 01-31-2016, 06:33 AM

Interesting.
Aluminum flooring could be electrostatic coated to be salt spray resistant.
It's done all the time on air conditioning coils installed in coastal areas.

Jim & Susan · 01-31-2016, 06:42 AM

Don't know if it has a closed belly pan area. I didn't look and didn't think to ask.

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m.hony · 01-31-2016, 07:27 AM

Enclosed belly pan on many so trailers means some black plastic fabric tarp of some sort- cheap- cutting corners-

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Wingeezer · 01-31-2016, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.hony

Yeah.
No more humps in the floor.
No more bounce in the floor.
And most importantly, no more soft floors/floor rot.

Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

We've enjoyed our Airstream since we bought it used about 6 years ago.

Recently I have give some serious thought to buying a new RV as the last one we will likely buy.

Having considered all classes of motorhomes, decided that if we did, it would be another trailer rather than a motorhome, -and an Airstream would probably be top of the list.

But I would never buy a new one unless it had something other than a wooden floor, so most likely the one we have will do us until we are done with RV'ing!

I would really be interested in knowing Airstream's reasoning for not moving in that direction - would there be more to the decision than just a cost issue?

Other less expensive trailers have had composite or aluminum floors impervious to rot.

Given the price of Airstreams, if there were to be a cost increase, I would have thought hat think it would be relatively small on a percentage basis.

I would have thought it would be a big selling point, and more likely to gain than to lose buyers - certainly me!

Brian.

dcasr · 01-31-2016, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim & Susan

Somebody mentioned the Camp Lite brand earlier in this thread. We had a chance to look at a couple of these today the local winter RV show. I wasn't all that impressed with the design (interior layout was "OK", but......) colors inside and out were blah, blah. Small, the longest trailer is 21 feet. In other words, it's never going to be the Airstream that we all own.

But structurally, oh my goodness. Hold on to your hats......

First picture is front view of the 21 footer. The words on the door say "It's all aluminum y'all". Hard to read some of the lettering.

These are being sold locally by the only Airstream dealer in the state (read the banner if can make it out). I was also impressed with the dealer, FWIW. They had four Airstreams on the floor and sales people that actually knew something about them. First time Airstream had an appearance at this show in years. Didn't try to sell you anything. Just provide information. Good experience. But that's another story for another thread.

More to come.

Jim

____________________
Ok Jim, where is Solidarite , Georgia! I live near Stone Mountain, and I can't find Solidarite , Georgia on Google maps or on the internet!

Were you at the big Atlanta RV show last week? If they finally had AS again and I missed it we're bummed. We gave up going after several many years without any AS presence.

Jim & Susan · 01-31-2016, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcasr

____________________
Ok Jim, where is Solidarite , Georgia! I live near Stone Mountain, and I can't find Solidarite , Georgia on Google maps or on the internet!

Were you at the big Atlanta RV show last week? If they finally had AS again and I missed it we're bummed. We gave up going after several many years without any AS presence.

I changed my (our) Avatar after the recent terrorist attacks in Paris as a way to show show emotional support for the people of France. Solidarity with the people, if you will. Solidarity, Fraternity, Eaglitarity from French history, in other words. I don't have French language character set loaded on this computer, so it may not be obvious the meaning. In reality, we live in McDonough on the southside of Atlanta. Trying to stay apolitical here to keep within the rules of this Forum, if you catch my drift.

We were at the "Atlanta Camping and RV Show" yesterday at the Atlanta Exposition Center (I-285 and Jonesboro Road, right off that exit.) Side note, that building was the very first Home Depot, if anybody is interested. Before that, when I was a young lad, it was a department store called Treasure Island, as I recall. Sort of a discount type store. But none of that is important to folks outside the Atlanta megalopolis.

Southland is the new Airstream dealer in Georgia. They're up in Buford. I really was impressed that they seemed to know the product and had an appreciation for it. Nice folks. We haven't really had a dealership here in years, especially one that had any understanding of the legend, if you will, of Airstream. I wish them much success. http://www.southlandrv.com/

Jim

Denis4x4 · 03-02-2016, 03:26 PM

Just got my Airstream Life and found it interesting that there is a story titled AIRSTREAM'S FIBERGLASS COUSINS. Included in the story are pictures of the 1953 Airstream "plastic" trailer and the 1955 Wally Bee 'glass prototype. If this is a hint of what the lower price AS might be, the WBCCI can charge admission for the meetings that will determine whether or not these trailers will be allowed in the club!

vintageracer · 03-02-2016, 04:30 PM

34 pages of complaining about Airstream flooring and leaky trailers. Virtually all products in our modern world today that have been made for many years with a long term legacy like Airstream are NOT manufactured as they were in the past. I hear folks all the time say "They Don't Make Em Like They Used to"! I for one am glad "They Don't Make Em Like They Used To" as nostalgia certainly has it's place in restoration however NOT in a modern manufactured product. A 1953 Corvette does NOT look like or drive like a 2013 Corvette. Airstream trailers still look similar to their 60+ year old brothers and still many of the same problems that existed in a 1953 Airstream trailer continue to exist in a 2013 Airstream trailer.

When will Airstream decide that nostalgia only goes so far when your target market is "Fat, 65 years of age and up" & when your competitors and making superior product priced tens of thousands LESS?

From "My" perspective Airstream's marketing plan for the future success will be on the downside as the "Fat, 65 years of age and up" crowd continues to die off and the younger generation RV'rs buy RV's that do not leak and have floors that do not ROT!

KJRitchie · 03-02-2016, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

We've enjoyed our Airstream since we bought it used about 6 years ago.

Recently I have give some serious thought to buying a new RV as the last one we will likely buy.

Having considered all classes of motorhomes, decided that if we did, it would be another trailer rather than a motorhome, -and an Airstream would probably be top of the list.

But I would never buy a new one unless it had something other than a wooden floor, so most likely the one we have will do us until we are done with RV'ing!

Other less expensive trailers have had composite or aluminum floors impervious to rot.

I would have thought it would be a big selling point, and more likely to gain than to lose buyers - certainly me!

Brian.

Can you list a few trailers that don't use a plywood floor?

Kelvin

Nuvite-F · 03-02-2016, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintageracer

When will Airstream decide that nostalgia only goes so far when your target market is "Fat, 65 years of age and up" & when your competitors and making superior product priced tens of thousands LESS?

From "My" perspective Airstream's marketing plan for the future success will be on the downside as the "Fat, 65 years of age and up" crowd continues to die off and the younger generation RV'rs buy RV's that do not leak and have floors that do not ROT!

They will probably decide that when their order backlog drops back to a reasonable level from the present and they can go back to two shifts at the factory. Notwithstanding the fact that they just raised prices.

**DKB_SATX** · 03-02-2016, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Can you list a few trailers that don't use a plywood floor?

Kelvin

Camplite doesn't.

rostam · 03-02-2016, 05:51 PM

LivinLite uses aluminium floor.

https://www.livinlite.com/camplite-models.php

Its also owned by Thor.

**DKB_SATX** · 03-02-2016, 06:08 PM

Evergreen Ever-Lite uses composite floor and walls.

I guess Oliver doesn't have plywood floors, but wouldn't bet a mortgage payment either way.

vintageracer · 03-03-2016, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJRitchie

Can you list a few trailers that don't use a plywood floor? Kelvin

1978-1978 Argosy 20 foot Minuete

Who owned Argosy when they were in business????

AWCHIEF · 03-03-2016, 08:35 AM

The way manufacturing is going seems it will not be long before Airstream is the only maker stuck in the 40's still using plywood. Unless Airstream makes some big changes in their engineering, materials use and QC I will not be buying a new Airstream anytime soon. But then again I am fat, 65 this month and poor.