New less expensive Airstream

[Rocinante]

Nice! However, for every picture I was wishing they had more / bigger windows. The Nest has that. Hmmm...

[BoldAdventure]

Airstream's prices are reflective of most products made in America. And they speak volumes about the hidden reality you don't notice on a day to day basis because of cheap imported goods. Inflation in America is staggeringly high and our wages haven't improved in 3 decades. This is hidden/offset in part by free trade. But you'll notice that actual things made in America cost three to four times as much as their slave labor made counter parts.

Let's not forget they're paying American workers, decent salaries. If you'd like, they could move operations to Mexico and get some hard working Mexican citizens to build Airstreams for $1 an hour. And probably save $30-40K off the price of an Airstream.

Another factor is Aluminum metric ton commodity prices which have been on the rise over the past two years.

Nest is very interesting. I'm not 100% convinced it's about the younger market, being someone that is under the 35 crowd but above the 25 crowd. But it might be appealing.

Most of my generation, and the generations coming up behind me the "millennials" tend to be urbanities. (I really cannot relate to that wanting to live in a city crap.) And they tend towards cool, trendy things that are small and eco-friendly. But they also have to be hip and cool.

Lots of people our age and younger are restoring classic Airstreams, because they're hip and cool. It's environmentally friendly to use an already built product. And HIPSTERS.

I don't know too many buying new. We looked at new originally, but I was already reading these forums, and realized that I wouldn't be getting the value out of a new Airstream that I would out of used. I feel for the money spent on my 2007 I have a greater return on value.

But the Nest might meet the hip/trendy consumerist desires of a younger generation that wants to get outdoors.

[PKI]

First thought was - white whale vs shiny bullet. The next was surprise at how many rigs were big truck and small trailer. Expected to see lots of small TV rigs. The one thought that raved praise was the potential to put the trailer in a standard residential garage.

Keep thinking of an image we saw in Yellowstone. It had just started raining and a couple with a small trailer was outside cooking. It was a dismal image, but they did not seem to be upset.

Will be interesting to see if the small solution brings in customers to catch 2ftitis over a couple of years with their fibreglass Airstream or develops a new owner group that drives change from a different perspective.

Travel safe. Pat

[jcl]

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

Nest is very interesting. I'm not 100% convinced it's about the younger market, being someone that is under the 35 crowd but above the 25 crowd. But it might be appealing.

Most of my generation, and the generations coming up behind me the "millennials" tend to be urbanities. (I really cannot relate to that wanting to live in a city crap.) And they tend towards cool, trendy things that are small and eco-friendly. But they also have to be hip and cool.

I don't think it is exclusively about the younger market at all. We are 55+ and like the idea of the Nest. Our travelling is just that, travelling. We don't set up for a longer stay, we are always moving. Something that tows better, can be towed by a standard vehicle, that has some design quality, is interesting to us. The pricing of the Nest (current/previous offer) was aimed at those who wanted a more premium product, and didn't equate size with quality. Still to see if build quality matches design quality. But a simpler product is easier to build.

It might not be coincidental that we are urbanites. We did the suburban/commuting thing. No more. Now we live in an urban centre, with lots of amenities close by. The building we are in has lots of people with a similar outlook, of a variety of ages. We walk and bicycle more than we drive now. We are down to one vehicle. We haven't ever thought of it as city crap. It is a choice. Sure, there are some hipsters downtown. They like to drink coffee. But does that mean that I shouldn't drink coffee? Acceptance of personal choice is key. And if the Nest doesn't appeal to current large Airstream owners, well, that wouldn't surprise me at all. That group isn't the target market. Airstream already has their money. Some of us want a premium product that is smaller. We don't tend to calculate the value of products such as these by $/kg.

Jeff

[Gene]

Chuck, thanks for the analysis of the issues around purchasing. It is possible the purchasing at Thor divisions is informally coordinated. Thor must have a reason to not have central purchasing—it may range from "we never did that before" to carefully reasoned analysis of any cost benefits. I think that sharing info between purchasing agents probably happens and is easier to accomplish with computer networks (assuming that Thor invests in up to date computers and networks).

If Keystone needs 5,000 Ventline stove vents, Airstream needs 2,500 and Dutchman needs 7,500 for a year, why not make a deal? But if they are only saving 5¢ per vent, the $750 savings for the purchase of 15,000 may not be worth it. As they get better at coordinating, maybe the savings will mount up and matter. Thor is dedicated to the cheapest materials, so it makes sense to buy together since all divisions buy a lot of the same stuff (I just looked for tabs for the Ventline stove vent door, the ones that fall out and disappear and saw that Airstream bought the cheapest Ventline vent available; Ventline, after I contacted them, offered to send me some tabs at no cost. There are no extra tabs anymore, so don't lose yours!). But we don't really know what Thor is doing.

So far as long term purchasing contracts go, whether it is for one division or all divisions, the same thing can happen to squelch innovation. A provision of a contract could void the contract if a substantially innovative technology comes along, but defining that can lead to a lawsuit. In areas where there is rapid change, one should avoid long term contracts. Hopefully the company can be aware of such innovations and avoid a 10 year buggy whip contract. Purchasing agents should endeavor to have good personal relationships with suppliers so that if change comes, they can work it out. Coordinated purchasing may best grow naturally while various divisions get used to it rather than force it from above. By the way, where can I get that super battery you used as an example?

On another item, the rapid increase in prices has surprised even a cynic like me. I was quite surprised at the cost of ours in 2007. I don't know what it costs now (can't be bothered looking it up), but the numbers I notice on the Forum show that Airstream keeps testing the market by raising prices by large chunks.

The test continues because they sell everything they make, so there is no economic reason as they see it to not keep making ever more expensive trailers with cheap materials and components plus poor workmanship. Of course, what they see may be wrong—over the years many people have found the Forum when they started looking at RV's and were interested in Airstream. Many of them decided to buy something else or buy a used one and the company has lost millions of dollar in sales. However, they still sold everything they made with an important exception (disregarding the Basecamp debacle)—sales plummeted from 2,400/year to 700 during the beginnings of the Great Recession. At that point Airstream did reach out via this Forum to satisfy some of the complaints about quality. Bob Wheeler started the Town Hall thread and received a barrage of complaints. Little seem to come out of it except the company did offer to fix some of the most egregious problems of corrosion. Wheeler was probably staggering when he saw the anger that had built up. The legendary thread was eventually closed and later disappeared. Wheeler didn't learn much except that he could ignore the complaints once sales started to pick up.

I still hear from people that Airstream makes a premium, high quality trailer. Decades of poor quality have not been discovered by most people. But GM, which in the 1950's made the best production cars in the world, rested on its laurels for generations while making worse and worse cars and trucks and still being the biggest motor vehicle manufacturer in the world until recently. It can take a long time, even with the introduction of better vehicles from Europe and Japan, to bring a GM to bankruptcy. The day when European and Asian companies start selling RV's in the US never seems to come, but if it does, things will change, probably slowly. Some major US and Canadian companies may eventually fail. If Airstream doesn't have a design patent on its basic design (I doubt they do as there used to be many companies with similar trailers), anyone can copy it. Anyone want to give me $100 M to do it?

Gene

[AWCHIEF]

Something else to add gleaned from our rally discussion with the Airstream marketing rep. NEST has built 4 prototypes. None have been sold. Final contracts were signed the first of this week and the prototypes are in route to Jackson Center or soon will be. The head engineer/designer was part of the package deal and will continue on with NEST development as an Airstream employee.

More Airstream tidbits:
As far as current Airstreams go they have no plans to modify or change from using plywood flooring any time soon.
For folks with early ducted air models. If you are having trouble with your overhead vents falling out they have a fix. Contact Airstream directly for info on that.
They have no intentions of going to a blown in foam insulation as the current product used is state of the art and the best available.
Do not count on triple axle 34s or larger coming back into production any time soon.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

More Airstream tidbits:
As far as current Airstreams go they have no plans to modify or change from using plywood flooring any time soon.
For folks with early ducted air models. If you are having trouble with your overhead vents falling out they have a fix. Contact Airstream directly for info on that.
They have no intentions of going to a blown in foam insulation as the current product used is state of the art and the best available.
Do not count on triple axle 34s or larger coming back into production any time soon.

Or, my take on 1: other subfloors would cost more and be different than what they are used to. 2: Moosetags will be glad to hear that. 3: The pink stuff is about the worst you can buy, but it is cheap and they are used to it (unless they changed?).

Gene

[PKI]

Do not believe pink is on anything except the Flamingos. I thought the current insulation is an environmentally friendly recycled cellulose product. At least it's not pink. But then I am a bit color blind. Pat

[lewster]

Originally Posted by PKI

Do not believe pink is on anything except the Flamingos. I thought the current insulation is an environmentally friendly recycled cellulose product. At least it's not pink. But then I am a bit color blind. Pat

Don't know about that. My hands still itch whenever I go into the walls to change outlets or pull wires. Suer looks like a spun will insulation of some type, and I'm sure it ain't 'cutting edge'!!

[m.hony]

Seems like on the factory tour they said the insulation was a recycled product.


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[ALUMINUMINUM]

NEST in a POKE


I read all forty pages of the Fiberglass Camper website thread showing Nest's history and how it's built. I see it it has 279 likes on its Facebook. The Nest website isn't working today, or it's being taken down. There's still plenty of images and explanations to be found throughout the WWW tho.


I don't understand its purpose relevant to the Airstream name, other than an opportunity for Airstream to exploit its perceived reputation to the unwary. Airstream's name doesn't belong on this thing.


I cringe using the truly exemplary product, Rolex, in this thought, but,


Rolex never put their name on a plastic digital watch to appeal to less affluent wrists.


If Thor wants the Nest, it should assign it to a more appropriate division or create a stand alone Nest division. Yes, a less expensive/entry-level/lightweight plastic trailer is nice. If it is built well, let it become its own Icon, like Scamp.


The “Nest” has a long, long way to go. I'd scrap that 3-piece back door vacuum glued clam design. There's too much proprietary design/manufacture. How do you goose-proof its airplane windshield? What about a design that can be repaired? How's the plastic floor/frame going to be fixed when a wheel drops into a too deep pot-hole or rock and the torsion axle rips away?? Or Your GYM Explodes? Take it to Jackson Center and have 'em screw on some angle-iron and mud it up with Bondo? Will patches and panel repair be vacuum formed? Can I buy a quarter panel and appropriate adhesives? Is it supposed to be a disposable or recyclable thing? Will it go in for a “clam-shell replacement”?


Not all, but most campsites are laid out to accommodate trailers with curbside doors and curbside awnings. The evolutionary history of trailers depicts this. Would you like to crawl through an “innovative” rear entry Chevy Suburban? The Nest's floor-plan doesn't allow for the co-mingling of in and out of doors that most campers enjoy with the door open. With the rear door entry, it just makes a hallway to hang out in. There's no Living area (which a side door can help define). A side door opens the trailer to the under-awning and camp activity. Not saying you can't drag the picnic table over behind the Nest, and erect a free standing tent-awning/shelter over it..


Sitting on folding chairs shoulder to shoulder facing the wall with your back to the room is bad wang sway. Lose the Queen bed, for a double/full, and make a face to face dinette for two with a big window alongside. The Nest's narrow hallway obstructs the by-passage of two persons. As currently designed, if someone is seated at the table, the chair blocks a passer-by. Wonderful big windows only in the bedroom. How does that make sense?



A $35,000 trailer with a $130 porta-potty?? Really?? Inside, the Nest looks like a chest freezer with windows. Don't really need a panoramic view of the back of my TV. NOT cuddly and warm as its name implies. A '63 Bambi is warm and cuddly, and also at 17', weighs the same as the space-age composite Nest..


Nest?? = A bunch of woven sticks in a tree? I like Airstream names... Flying Cloud, Safari, Trade Wind, Overlander… Names with adventure and movement! Torpedo!


If AS would bring back the “Torpedo” within the Basecamp format they'd have a hit. The Torpedo is byam's true Airstream, much more an Airstream than when byam riveted his Airstream badge onto Hawley Bowlus' Road Chief trailer, then called it his own, to “not change, only make improvements”. A “New Torpedo” could be designed to fill the $35,000 market targeted by the Nest. We'll call it the “100 Year Anniversary Model”, 'cause we can sell lies.


The nest is simply one man's incomplete, mediocre design dream. There isn't any part of it that hasn't been already done in Europe, except for the unnecessary expensive fiberglass shell mold technique, the propitiatory airplane plastic front window, and the untested plastic frame. Lightweight space-age composites are not necessary to camping. We'll see if it “develops”.


We all know that after 45mph, Drag is what matters more than weight. Nest may look aerodynamic, but it hasn't been wind-tunneled. A 1963 jaguar XKE roadster with the top down has exactly the same drag coefficient as a 1968 VW bus(0.42), which was wind tunnel designed. You know these texting millennials can't drive 55 in their SUVs. With the Nest's 250 pound tongue cantilevered by the optional aft roof mounted AC, and the optional “swing-away rear receiver bike rack”, we know what'll happen…



The Nest should be re-engineered to cost $19,000 as a base, and not named an Airstream. This trailer needs many more years of thought. It's over-priced. Just because it costs a lot to make, doesn't add any value. I guess Thor thinks they can smooth an Airstream sticker on it an it'll sell to you know who and his money.

For me, after all the hype and speculation, it's disappointing, Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Rocinante]

Seems a bit harsh, though informative. However, I don't share your lack of enthusiasm. Did go through the thread on the fiberglass forum for construction of the mold, etc. Pretty cool: http://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/f...tep-63317.html

Meanwhile, a trailer this short will likely have plenty of room behind it in most camping locations. As a result, I'm not sure the side vs. rear (or even front - Bowlus Road Chief!) door would really matter that much to us.

Key problem for us is that we're used to more room overall.

[ALUMINUMINUM]

Regarding being seated with one's back to the room, I meant bad feng shui.

I agree, It sounds harsh in some part, and I chose not to edit that out. Mostly because the Nest isn't an Airstream, and it annoys me immensely if it is to be named an Airstream.

I've been in The Bowlus, old and new, and as much as I admire the beautiful workmanship and finest materials in the New, I can't get with the tunnel design. I won't say it's claustrophobic, just not as roomy feeling as I'd like. Hard to see out into nature. I love the Bowlus.

Yes, I understand the Nest mold. I have an engineering degree in material processing and worked for an engineering firm specializing in foundries. Lucky for me, I couldn't find a fit with Engineer's egos. I'm a pretty fair pattern maker tho, and have vacuum formed fiberglass and plastics. There're better ways to do it than Nest could afford. I think they did a great job on the clam-shell molds, it's just their glass process is adding thousands of dollars to the production costs.

It always bugs me when I see newly engineered fantastic products advertised to be so much advanced in technology, and folks buy into it.

Consumers can believe in the AUTO HAMMER as seen on TV for 19.95 plus S&H, or they can go to the hardware store and buy a 16oz hickory handled Vaughn for twenty bucks.

The AUTO HAMMER operates single-handedly, comes with a packet of proprietary nails that you feed into the handle. AUTO HAMMER nails cannot be purchased anywhere.

The antiquated Vaughn design requires one to hold an ordinary nail where you want it with your other hand.

The list of the AUTO HAMMER's superiority goes on...

[AWCHIEF]

Originally Posted by ALUMINUMINUM

NEST in a POKE


I read all forty pages of the Fiberglass Camper website thread showing Nest's history and how it's built. I see it it has 279 likes on its Facebook. The Nest website isn't working today, or it's being taken down. There's still plenty of images and explanations to be found throughout the WWW tho.


I don't understand its purpose relevant to the Airstream name, other than an opportunity for Airstream to exploit its perceived reputation to the unwary. Airstream's name doesn't belong on this thing.


I cringe using the truly exemplary product, Rolex, in this thought, but,


Rolex never put their name on a plastic digital watch to appeal to less affluent wrists.


If Thor wants the Nest, it should assign it to a more appropriate division or create a stand alone Nest division. Yes, a less expensive/entry-level/lightweight plastic trailer is nice. If it is built well, let it become its own Icon, like Scamp.


The “Nest” has a long, long way to go. I'd scrap that 3-piece back door vacuum glued clam design. There's too much proprietary design/manufacture. How do you goose-proof its airplane windshield? What about a design that can be repaired? How's the plastic floor/frame going to be fixed when a wheel drops into a too deep pot-hole or rock and the torsion axle rips away?? Or Your GYM Explodes? Take it to Jackson Center and have 'em screw on some angle-iron and mud it up with Bondo? Will patches and panel repair be vacuum formed? Can I buy a quarter panel and appropriate adhesives? Is it supposed to be a disposable or recyclable thing? Will it go in for a “clam-shell replacement”?


Not all, but most campsites are laid out to accommodate trailers with curbside doors and curbside awnings. The evolutionary history of trailers depicts this. Would you like to crawl through an “innovative” rear entry Chevy Suburban? The Nest's floor-plan doesn't allow for the co-mingling of in and out of doors that most campers enjoy with the door open. With the rear door entry, it just makes a hallway to hang out in. There's no Living area (which a side door can help define). A side door opens the trailer to the under-awning and camp activity. Not saying you can't drag the picnic table over behind the Nest, and erect a free standing tent-awning/shelter over it..


Sitting on folding chairs shoulder to shoulder facing the wall with your back to the room is bad wang sway. Lose the Queen bed, for a double/full, and make a face to face dinette for two with a big window alongside. The Nest's narrow hallway obstructs the by-passage of two persons. As currently designed, if someone is seated at the table, the chair blocks a passer-by. Wonderful big windows only in the bedroom. How does that make sense?



A $35,000 trailer with a $130 porta-potty?? Really?? Inside, the Nest looks like a chest freezer with windows. Don't really need a panoramic view of the back of my TV. NOT cuddly and warm as its name implies. A '63 Bambi is warm and cuddly, and also at 17', weighs the same as the space-age composite Nest..


Nest?? = A bunch of woven sticks in a tree? I like Airstream names... Flying Cloud, Safari, Trade Wind, Overlander… Names with adventure and movement! Torpedo!


If AS would bring back the “Torpedo” within the Basecamp format they'd have a hit. The Torpedo is byam's true Airstream, much more an Airstream than when byam riveted his Airstream badge onto Hawley Bowlus' Road Chief trailer, then called it his own, to “not change, only make improvements”. A “New Torpedo” could be designed to fill the $35,000 market targeted by the Nest. We'll call it the “100 Year Anniversary Model”, 'cause we can sell lies.


The nest is simply one man's incomplete, mediocre design dream. There isn't any part of it that hasn't been already done in Europe, except for the unnecessary expensive fiberglass shell mold technique, the propitiatory airplane plastic front window, and the untested plastic frame. Lightweight space-age composites are not necessary to camping. We'll see if it “develops”.


We all know that after 45mph, Drag is what matters more than weight. Nest may look aerodynamic, but it hasn't been wind-tunneled. A 1963 jaguar XKE roadster with the top down has exactly the same drag coefficient as a 1968 VW bus(0.42), which was wind tunnel designed. You know these texting millennials can't drive 55 in their SUVs. With the Nest's 250 pound tongue cantilevered by the optional aft roof mounted AC, and the optional “swing-away rear receiver bike rack”, we know what'll happen…



The Nest should be re-engineered to cost $19,000 as a base, and not named an Airstream. This trailer needs many more years of thought. It's over-priced. Just because it costs a lot to make, doesn't add any value. I guess Thor thinks they can smooth an Airstream sticker on it an it'll sell to you know who and his money.

For me, after all the hype and speculation, it's disappointing, Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

A 7 for entertainment value. 😜

[ROBERTSUNRUS]

Hi, OK let me get this straight. After tons of work, a Nest prototype was built for show, but interest in it was poor. So Airstream bought it??????? Is there something that I'm missing?

[AWCHIEF]

Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS

Hi, OK let me get this straight. After tons of work, a Nest prototype was built for show, but interest in it was poor. So Airstream bought it??????? Is there something that I'm missing?

According to the Airstream Marketing rep that spoke to us at the Florida State rally the other day, The owner/designer had the development building skills but not the necessary marketing skills. Airstream feels that they have the necessary network to successfully bring the NEST to market. As I said before the plan is to market the NEST as a stand alone product not necessarily as just another Airstream model. Production will start in 1.5 to 2 years after a new production facility is built and a work force hired and trained.

[cameront120]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

According to the Airstream Marketing rep that spoke to us at the Florida State rally the other day, The owner/designer had the development building skills but not the necessary marketing skills. Airstream feels that they have the necessary network to successfully bring the NEST to market. As I said before the plan is to market the NEST as a stand alone product not necessarily as just another Airstream model. Production will start in 1.5 to 2 years after a new production facility is built and a work force hired and trained.

Which sounds like Airstream is looking to diversify. How can that be a bad thing?

[Rocinante]

It's also a trailer the existing network of Airstream dealers can sell / support. In the end, it sounds like a win win win win, especially for Robert Johans, who will get to see his ideas come to market.

Cynicism aside, it will also allow Airstream to connect in an exciting way with a second unique and interesting group of rabid fans: Fiberglass RV-ers.

[DanB]

ALUMINUMINUM - I think you have brought up many valid points.

I very much agree with you of the use of the Airstream name on this product is not appropriate.

Many manufacturers have done this, Snap-On, Armani, Carhart, and many auto manufacturers. Now I just have a hard time trusting them.

Whats next? "Coleman by Airstream" or "Yeti-Stream, the ultimate boondocker cooler".

[bolerama]

So many entertaining comments! I guess, if you aren't into smaller trailers, you never will be. We have owned our boler since we were in our late 20s, and we still own it. We bought our Airstream in our late 30s, but we still use it like we use our boler. It's just bigger.

The comment about the the sad situation of the couple cooking outside in the rain also applies to the couple with the shiny Airstream cooking outside in the rain -- that's us! Our tiny boler has a 2-burner stove and our Airstream has a 3-burner stove. We use those stoves for boiling water for coffee in the morning. We never cook in either trailer. Why not? Cooking odors for one. Even a 30 ft Airstream's bedroom closet is WAY too close to the kitchen. Second, we are stuck inside for the entire winter -- and winters in Canada are LONG and COLD. I look forward to being outside, and cooking in the rain is part of the experience. It's not bad or sad.

The back door on the Nest is not a negative, nor is the large window over the hitch. The beauty of these small trailers is that once you unhitch them, you can easily push them around the campsite until you find the optimal view! Last August, we were getting ready for bed, and we heard 2 vehicles pull in. Then we heard the sound we are familiar with (the sound of a boler being pushed around a campsite), and we looked at each other and said, "sounds like boler!" We rushed to the window and 2 couples (one young, one retired) were pushing 2 trailers around on 1 site until they both had optimal views of the lake. Now that's camping!

Windows -- I bet the window to wall ratio is similar on a fibreglass trailer as an Airstream. Our boler is very bright and airy -- but not sterile as some have suggested. One feature of the CCD, which we bought, was the white upper cabinets. It was reminiscent of the boler cabinets. I don't like the the woodsy look. But Airstream offers a full line for all different tastes. The CCD was the first model we were interested in. We wouldn't have an Airstream if they all had the woodsy look. Thanks Christopher Deam!

Porta-potty vs toilet vs campground facilities -- my parents also have a 13 ft fibreglass trailer (Trillium). They only use campground facilities and have never wanted a toilet onboard. I think my dad says it best: "What I'm leaving behind is not something I want to take with me." ha ha ha! In fact, we've never used our Airstream toilet to its full potential.

Attached is a picture of me and my dogs in the pouring rain with mosquitoes the size of small birds. Still smiling!

Lisa