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01-19-2016, 03:44 PM
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#381
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Rivet Master
2014 31' Classic
2015 23' International
2013 25' FB International
Apache Junction
, Arizona
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,223
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Improper maintenance by a mechanic with an attitude could result in a dangerous situation down the road.
I have mentioned that on our new 2015 23D International Serenity one wheel bearing was already scored from lack of grease at less than 2,000 road miles and the other three needed grease. The recommended service interval is 10,000 miles, so after the wheel bearing failing along the way the damage would be blamed on the owner.
Frankly, a dealer is less than worthless if they can not even do a simple visual inspection as part of the required PDI - like noting the lack of the Airstream brand name on the back of our trailer and a wad of plastic covering for the side wall on top of the bedding. After not noticing these simple issues, I was left wondering what else they missed. Fortunately, I had the wheel bearings and brakes checked while having the modifications done to our trailer.
This forum is where folks comment on their experiences to serve as wakeup calls for the other readers. Many of the reported issues I also found on my trailers and got the issue corrected before it became a major expense. Many of the suggestions have been put into my note book as a solution to a problem if I t ever happens to me or another camper near us.
The forum is well worth the annual $20 fee to help support this treasure trove of information.
__________________
WBCCI Life Member 5123, AIR 70341, 4CU, WD9EMC
TV - 2012 Dodge 2500 4x4 Cummins HO, automatic, Centramatics, Kelderman level ride airbag suspension, bed shell
2014 31' Classic w/ twin beds, 50 amp service, 1000 watt solar system, Centramatics, Tuson TPMS, 12" disc brakes, 16" tires & wheels
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01-20-2016, 09:58 AM
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#382
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2 Rivet Member
1965 30' Sovereign
West Allis
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 70
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Design vs Quality & CampInn Comments
Amazing how this thread keeps going. I keep thinking that the AS folks must be chuckling.
Design is what catches the eye, Quality is what is seen and felt upon closer examination. It takes both, IMO, to get the customer to purchase, to keep them coming back for their next unit and to recommend their purchases to others.
Regarding CampInn. I've been following CampInn since their inception. These are small trailers but not short of features. Not really simple, but well designed.
The first unit was built because a man is planning a tour of Rout 66 with his family and could not imaging striking a tent over and over during his vacation. Investigating small trailers, he found the teardrop and figured he could build one just as good or better than what he could purchase. This should sound familiar to anyone who knows the Byam backstory.
During the trip, people keep admiring his trailer and asking where he got it. Once home, he and a engineer co-worker decide to build a few. Then a few more. Then their "Day-Job" company relocates and they make it a full time gig...out of a airplane hanger behind his house. Later they expand to new new "factory" digs, within the same small town of Neceedah, WI, and grow their workforce.
Along the way they keep quality up and customer satisfaction second to none-as news articles and web comments indicate.
The two founders still work in the shop, communicate with workers and keep orders and lead times manageable. They hold yearly owner get-together's "CampInns" and people come from all over.
They sell factory direct and are probably one of the most expensive Tear Drop designs sold. They have less expensive models, but customer's preference leans towards the "loaded" models. Used units retain good resale.
They have continued to be successful for many years-even through the recession-because they build a good quality, eye-catching, vintage design with modern amenities. They make changes when it makes sense, when enough customer's request them and when improvements will benefit the customer.
It's a neat success story from a couple of go-getters that saw a need and filled it.
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01-20-2016, 11:24 AM
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#383
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2 Rivet Member
1965 30' Sovereign
West Allis
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 70
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Shacksman, thanks for the Holiday Post. http://sierranevadaairstreams.org/me...ay-trailer.pdf
Interesting read.
This information is as valuable today, as it was in 1954, given the complaints within this thread.
The review section, as written with comments:
THE BIG DIFFERENCE
The big difference between Wally Byam's "Holiday" is that it was designed by experienced trailer travelers to be used by experienced trailer travelers.
ARE THEY STILL DESIGNED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE AVID RV USERS?
It was not designed by a trailer manufacturer to make a good appearance on a sales lot and to be sold to inexperienced people who do not really know the good from the bad.
MAYBE THIS SHOULD SAY: BY INEXPERIENCED DEALERS TO INEXPERIENCED PEOPLE? THERE ARE GOOD, EXPERIENCED DEALERS OUT THERE WHO HAVE ACCOLADES, NOT COMPLAINTS, AS EVIDENCED BY THIS THREAD
When Wally Byam designed this trailer he knew that many of them would be
sold to people who would go on his tours. And if anything was not good these people would be right there to tell him about it. Many manufacturers never see the folks who buy and use their trailers.
HOW TRUE, BUT NOT FACTORY DIRECT BRANDS OR AS JC VISITORS-LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD
Wally Byam lives with his customers. His trailers have got to be good. Everything in the "Holiday" is practical, good and top quality, yet reasonably priced.
It is the kind of "good buy" that careful buyers are looking for.
For those who want a small light weight trailer for vacations, week-ends, and trips, it is absolutely tops.
HERE'S HOPING THIS IS WHAT IS COMING IN THE NEW MODEL-THERE ARE MANY TALENTED PEOPLE IN JACKSON CENTER WHO CAN DO THIS!
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01-20-2016, 01:17 PM
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#384
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Rivet Master
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2013 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2012 20' Flying Cloud
Small Town
, *** Big Sky Country ***Western Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Quote:
Ever more so because as a society we don't train people to work with their hands any more. The elites in education think there are no future jobs in technical work, likely because the don't understand it and don't have a clue how to teach it. However if you don't put a wrench or a rivet gun in a kids hand until he is 19 it will never really be part of him. It used to be that a farmers kids were helping fix the tractor from the time they were 5 and because there were more kids than farms there was this great work force available. However farms are becoming big corporate entities so there is not the same grass routes education of technical skills.
Andrew T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander
While you're both correct that many students do not get the shop class experiences that they would have in years past, in my experience it's not quite as bad as you make it sound. In our school district all high schools offer technological education courses (ranging from woodworking to auto shop to construction to machine shop to electrical to robotics to HVAC, etc.), and many students get some experience with tools in elementary school as well. In elementary schools there is certainly a smaller variety of tools than there was 20 years ago, but there's still something and at least now the girls are involved as well, unlike when I was in grade 7/8 in the early 70's. In Ontario, education in many industry sectors is offered through Specialist High Skills Majors courses (in high school) which provide a broader range of industry-related skills than did previous courses.
The opportunities are there, but many parents do not recognize the value of Technological Education and discourage (or at least don't encourage) their children from taking those courses, a huge mistake in my opinion. In some of our schools 95% of parents of grade 9 students believe that their child will attend university. I guess it's easy to think that if you're child is going to become a doctor, lawyer or stock broker they'll have enough money to pay to have anything built or fixed that they need.
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Well said Davidson !
Many folks are qualified to offer their opinion ***from an elitist or not *** but it is refreshing to see a member take the time to share their current school district's statistics.
As a former auto shop, welding, and math instructor who also chaired both a Vocational Ed and a Computer Science department, I was quite offended by the remarks from Andrew T purporting to explain our current state of AS quality affairs. It was an oversimplification to say the least ...and to speculate that educators "do not understand it" referring to the technical trades is self-serving and offensive to most professional educators.
Perhaps the reason for failing quality across the board in many area might be that society in general has lost many of the values that the older generation has held in high esteem for many years. For some, the adage - if you can't do it, then teach - is correct; but, please don't lump us all in one barrel until you have walked in our shoes.
__________________
2015 25' Eddie Bauer Int'l FBQ / 2023 Ford Lightning ER
2022 Ford F350 6.2 V-8; equalizer hitch + Shocker air hitch
Honda Eu3200; AIR# 44105; formerly WBCCI 2015.1
Terminal Aluminitis; 2-people w/ 3+ dogs
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01-20-2016, 01:35 PM
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#385
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"Cloudsplitter"
2003 25' Classic
Houstatlantavegas
, Malebolgia
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 20,000
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“Education is what people do to you,
Learning is what you do to yourself…..”
Joi Ito
"Apprenticeship.....what you do together"
RLC
"Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you’re a mile away and you have their shoes."
__________________
I’m done with ‘adulting’…Let’s go find Bigfoot.
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01-20-2016, 02:06 PM
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#386
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Rivet Master
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2013 25' FB Eddie Bauer
2012 20' Flying Cloud
Small Town
, *** Big Sky Country ***Western Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Nicely said, Robert ...
__________________
2015 25' Eddie Bauer Int'l FBQ / 2023 Ford Lightning ER
2022 Ford F350 6.2 V-8; equalizer hitch + Shocker air hitch
Honda Eu3200; AIR# 44105; formerly WBCCI 2015.1
Terminal Aluminitis; 2-people w/ 3+ dogs
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01-20-2016, 02:10 PM
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#387
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Rivet Master
2007 23' Safari SE
2016 23' International
Fernandina Beach
, Florida
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 587
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Fun discussion! I encourage anyone working their way through college to get employed as a substitute teacher on their breaks... And volunteer for all sorts of assignments. I did everything from my Father's Advanced Math Class to all sorts of vocational training (not that I was qualified). It'll teach YOU a thing about education... especially at the middle school level.
A well rounded HS education, no matter what track you were on (in my day its was vocational, "business", and Math/Sci College Prep) should include a little of all. I learned mechanical drawing and woodshop. No HomeEc but its OK for guys these days. And everyone should have a least one semester of Auto Shop.
Skilled workers are a great resource to this country in times of war or peace. We just need to provide for more mobility so workers can go where the jobs are. Would love to see Thor get into this game. And you know, there are a lot of soon to be seniors who are going to need cheap mobile housing... its a growth industry for sure.
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01-20-2016, 04:01 PM
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#388
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,711
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Wasn't Airstream expanding the factory by 50%? Seems like there should be room for a new line of trailers that tours may not cover.
Gene
__________________
Gene
The Airstream is sold; a 2016 Nash 24M replaced it.
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01-20-2016, 11:59 PM
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#389
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1 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
Richmond
, Indiana
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 17
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Less expensive Aurstream
I have been following this forum about a new less expensive Airstream.
I think the group has gotten off course in reference to why the forum started.
I am in the market to buy a camper this year. My ex wife and I bought a new Airstream back in 2001. I have owned a couple of campers myself since our divorce in 2005. I really want to buy another Airstream so I am going to wait and see what they come out with and, most importantly, how much will it cost. I think I see where it will be out in May? I'm hoping it will be worth the wait. If not we'll then I'll buy something else. I'm retiring soon so it will be what I take into retirement.
Vaughn
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01-21-2016, 04:56 AM
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#390
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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My retirement trailer would be (is) a Classic 30!
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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01-21-2016, 08:25 AM
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#391
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Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene
Wasn't Airstream expanding the factory by 50%? Seems like there should be room for a new line of trailers that tours may not cover.
Gene
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They did. They are still several months behind due to still training and bringing new employees up to speed and another increase in the number of orders.
Personally I believe any new non-aluminum trailer will be built off site by a third party. Possibly a current rebranded Thor product.
__________________
MICHAEL
Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
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01-21-2016, 02:22 PM
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#392
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Rivet Master
2017 25' International
Carlsbad
, California
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 706
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While it's off topic from the OP, the conversation about trades people and lack thereof, is truely worthy of discussion. rmkrum, Andrew and Davidson, you're spot on. This issue has frightening ramifications. Maybe start a thread, I'd love to engage in more discussion about our future without enough carpenters, electricians, mechanics and machinists to name just a few.
Uh oh, I sound a little preachy....
but, it's a big deal...
I had conversation with some elementary school educators who were fixated on "high school ready & college bound". "Not all important and rewarding careers begin at a university" I said. We need Americans with skills in the trades too. Ok rant over.
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01-21-2016, 05:40 PM
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#393
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Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi
, Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,278
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Back on topic,
Could this be the new Airstream being tested?😜
__________________
MICHAEL
Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
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01-21-2016, 06:03 PM
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#394
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4 Rivet Member
2006 23' Safari SE
Nevada City
, California
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF
Back on topic,
Could this be the new Airstream being tested?😜
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Where did you see that? The shape is right.
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
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01-21-2016, 06:17 PM
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#395
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Remember, Safety Third
1973 27' Overlander
Catfish Corners
, Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF
Back on topic,
Could this be the new Airstream being tested?
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Interesting, Chief. Any badging on it anywhere?
Oh wait, too many green leaves......unless that's south Florida, that picture was taken in the summertime.
Jim
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01-21-2016, 06:24 PM
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#396
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Rivet Master
2013 30' Classic
Greenwood
, Mississippi
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 12,111
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Looks like a Scamp/Casita/Burro/Escape/Oliver to me...
Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums
__________________
2013 Classic 30 Limited
2007 Silver Toyota Tundra Crew Max Limited 5.7 iForce
2006 Vivid Black Harley-Davidson Road King Classic
1999 Black Nissan Pathfinder LE
TAC #MS-10
WBCCI #1811, Region 6, Unit 56
Airforums #70955
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01-21-2016, 06:54 PM
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#397
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Rivet Master
2007 16' International CCD
Vintage Kin Owner
Somewhere
, Colorado
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,579
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Hooray!! Back on subject.........
I would expect a pano window in front, and maybe (hopefully) a hatch in back. My guess is that photo is not far off what we will see. Wonder what it is.
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01-21-2016, 07:01 PM
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#398
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Remember, Safety Third
1973 27' Overlander
Catfish Corners
, Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,720
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There's a tiny blue emblem of some sort on the roadside aft, just under the window. Anybody recognize it? Maybe we could use that google picture search what-cha-ma-call-it to ID it.
Jim
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01-21-2016, 07:09 PM
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#399
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Remember, Safety Third
1973 27' Overlander
Catfish Corners
, Georgia
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,720
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Yup, right click on the image and use the "search google for image" function. Taken in Pennsyltucky at a state park. Being pulled by a fancy Jeep. Looks like about the right size TV/camper combo to meet the balance discussed. Nice lookin' rig. I would prefer all silver, tho.
Can't do much with the Blue emblem, however.
Jim
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01-21-2016, 07:48 PM
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#400
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2 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
Aledo
, Texas
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWCHIEF
Back on topic,
Could this be the new Airstream being tested?😜
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That trailer is a 16ft. Scamp, molded fiberglass trailer.
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