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Old 11-07-2019, 02:17 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
I am afraid I disagree. With a birth year of 1948, I am clearly a Boomer. I love tech! I cannot get enough of it at home and that was also the case on my sailboat. I was always selling stuff on EBay so I could install the latest electronics. But, those boat systems were really built well, to sail across oceans and very rare problems were supported by the manufacturer and many, many full-service boatyards. I think about this differently on my Airstream. I have not observed a similar level of reliability with anything on my trailer, the support network is very sparse, and the thought of all systems out of service because a computer control panel failed is just scary. Camping may have turned me into a Luddite, at least while I am camping.
Larry
I would agree with you there. I'm 55 and I love the tech in our 2019 Classic. The day I brought it home, I was looking for ways to move more tech into it. Granted, I mostly support the tech myself and the only thing that keeps me from working on the AS at this time is that 3-year warranty. Though I will also have to admit, the horrendous wait times to get warranty work done at the dealer has me rethinking whether I even care about that warranty.

Even if the CZone fails, installing the next level of tech will be relatively easy for me.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:23 PM   #22
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"Less is More" ?

And we bought new cause couldn’t find a used one of the model we wanted within 2000 miles of us. With the discount and the warranty traveling that far made no sense.

With cars I try to find a used CPO one when possible but that’s not always the case as I want a specific model and trim level. Not always available.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:27 PM   #23
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Absolutely keeping up to the competition is corporate Airstream's primary concern everything else is a distant second. I don't know the balance sheet costs of the New vs Old but I'd wager it is close. What are the lifetime costs comparisons only time will tell. It seems to be the major components are Old fridge vs New battery tech.
So brace yourself for the future dear people.
Airstream customers have always been willing to pay upfront for corporates judgment on the product, let's hope thay have done the due diligence correctly.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:47 PM   #24
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High tech systems do absolutely reduce the long term usability of machines.....

40 years from now, a 2018 Camaro will have absolutely no value whatsoever.....the tech does not last, and when the tech dies on a modern car, its over.

However, 40 years from now, the 1968 Camaro will still be a hot commodity, and will run just like it does today......and will retain big value, and can be serviced snd driven forever.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:52 PM   #25
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Many shopping outlets are losing money, even going out of business eventually UNLESS it adapts to marketing to young millennials. I think Airstream is trying to adapt its marketing to accept all generations, not just the Boomers. Popups are disappearing. Jayco, Pimento, Viking, Coleman, Apache, and many others have gone. I think only 3 brands of popups are still out there. I am sure that many brand name TT and RV are disappearing quickly. I hope Airstream will do the marketing to meet all generations' needs.
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Old 11-07-2019, 04:45 PM   #26
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It appears to me that this issue of less is more and the direction the thread is taking is that 'skill set' has a lot to do with your appreciation of technology in its many forms. Other considerations are popping up along the way as well. So far it has been a very informative and thought provoking thread and I will follow along. It will prove quite informative in the long run I am sure of that. I know my limitations and skill sets and thankfully there are service centers at dealers and JC as well, But, I do not want to spend my time at those places I want to spend time on the road enjoying my hard earned dollar most efficiently.
Thanks to lsbrodsky for starting this thread.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:24 AM   #27
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"Do you use 20 year old TV too?"

I do truly hope too. But right now it is only 13 years old so we will have to see in a few more years if I do.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:59 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Rotorhd View Post
I find it interesting that many owners return to Jackson for repairs as a rite of passage to owning a new and very expensive trailer. It seems to me be at odds with everything Airstream is suppose to encompass.

Steve

I agree with almost everything you said, with the exception of owners returning to Jackson Center as a rite of passage. Truth be told, the skill set of many in the dealer network varies widely as does their customer service.

Going to Jackson Center, if an option, you go straight to the manufacturer. They typically Jackson Center has all the parts on hand (no delay waiting for parts to ship) and they have the expertise (they ought to, they designed and built it). So to me, it's not so much a rite of passage, but more of a I spent $xx,xxx or $xxx,xxx on this trailer, do I really want to bring it to a dealer that might not be able to support it in the same manner the factory can? I don't want to sound like every dealer out there is inferior to the factory service, because that's also not true, but those stellar dealerships that provide excellent customer service and out of the ballpark repair/maint isn't an easy task to find. In terms of body segment overlay and replacement, in my opinion (which is worth about a dime on the open market) Jackson Center is probably 1 of 3 places I'd take my Airstream if I needed that services done.

One thing I strongly agree on is buying a unit that is pre-owned. The price difference is enormous, even after a few years. Once you get past years 4-5, most models have lost approx 30% or more of their initial price paid (MSRP minus 19-20%). The problem for buyers though is that although this method seems to be fairly accurate, the higher costs of new Airstreams has brought the average price of a mint used 8-15 year old Airstream within 50-55% of it's initial price paid (MSRP minus 19-20%), some more rare models like the Eddie Bauer could be even higher than that 50-55% figure.

I terms of the 20 year old TV comment in this thread, I deal with arcade games and many have this same 20 year old technology, however getting CRT based monitors is hard to come by, fewer are made every year. The latency and color quality of doing an LED/LCD CRT swaps is possible, but the LED/LCD panels have far higher latency, so when you play the game, there is a larger disparity between the action and the controls. One could argue the difference in milliseconds is trivial, but it is real. My point is, there is nothing inherently wrong with proven technology, regardless of age. Heck, I far prefer a tube amplifier to a solid state. My Airstream works just fine with a manual awning, far fewer "computers" to manage systems.

Forget about the convenience of all the gadgets and gizmos and think about the weight all these power this and power that add to the overall GVWR, when it's just for conv and lux, not mandatory for operation or camping. Then think of the power deltas. If you never or rarely boondock, great, but if you do, you find bringing a genset is somewhat mandatory because the solar panels are fixed and sometimes you can't get that sweet spot full sun, but hey, you have power recliners and awnings.
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:26 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panamerican View Post

One thing I strongly agree on is buying a unit that is pre-owned. The price difference is enormous, even after a few years. Once you get past years 4-5, most models have lost approx 30% or more of their initial price paid (MSRP minus 19-20%). The problem for buyers though is that although this method seems to be fairly accurate, the higher costs of new Airstreams has brought the average price of a mint used 8-15 year old Airstream within 50-55% of it's initial price paid (MSRP minus 19-20%), some more rare models like the Eddie Bauer could be even higher than that 50-55% figure.
You are being far too optimistic if you expect to get a good older Airstream for 50% of the initial price.

I personally know of 10 year old Airstreams that sold for more than the original purchase price.

A used trailer, car etc., can often be buying some else trouble. I prefer buying new so that it can be repaired/maintained under warranty. As you have said, the price of new Airstreams keep going up, so I expect I will get close to what I initially paid whenever my unit is sold.
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:54 AM   #30
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I am in the middle on hi-tech versus lo-tech.
1) I like to add tech that helps me. Like Victron Bluetooth battery monitor and Renogy Bluetooth charge controller. As times change, these are easily changed out and updated.
2) I have concerns about too much embedded tech. This can be difficult to repair and/or find replacements for in a decade or so.
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Old 11-08-2019, 12:47 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Adventure.AS View Post
You are being far too optimistic if you expect to get a good older Airstream for 50% of the initial price.

I personally know of 10 year old Airstreams that sold for more than the original purchase price.

A used trailer, car etc., can often be buying some else trouble. I prefer buying new so that it can be repaired/maintained under warranty. As you have said, the price of new Airstreams keep going up, so I expect I will get close to what I initially paid whenever my unit is sold.
Am I?

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/198...LLA-5009307628


This was a $100k coach when new.

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/200...%29-5008419321


This 30' slide was new around $75k +/- new.



So yea, maybe not 50%, but pretty darn close. I wasn't talking about full refurbished 13 panel super vintage and yea, there are going to be some that are going to ask a for a pile of money, does or doesn't mean they are going to get it....if you look at my post I think I said 8-15 year old trailer and I stand by my comment.

To each their own. I have bought new and used and honesty, I think you are generalizing. Yes you can buy someone else's problems, but you can also buy something from someone who's eyes were bigger than their wallet and lost interest. Moreover, what are you going to do when the warranty runs out, if the warranty is even fully honored as I've heard that Airstream has denied some warranty work claims.

Each person is different and in the end our votes as to which camp mean less here than when folks vote with their wallets.

I still prefer more simple to more complex and honestly, loved my Sony 32" Trinitron. Sure the picture is nowhere near an OLED, and it's big and it's bulky, but the things just worked, never pixelated moving images. Not saying there is no value in the luxo stuff, just sayin' that just cause it's old or less of a wow factor doesn't make it irrelevant.
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:50 PM   #32
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Lee is more - it simplifies and allows for enjoying the moment.
More can somehow enhance enjoyment of the moment?
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:36 PM   #33
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I can readily fix a toggle switch that simply turns a light on and off. Doing the same thing under computer control has a high cool factor, but if it breaks, you are stuck.

I’ll stick to simple on/off manual switches for stuff like that. Most complex system in my Airstream is the solar MPPT controller, and I can live without that in a pinch.

And yeah, I have degrees in electronics, computer science, etc, and am really good at complex hardware troubleshooting when I’m getting paid for it. When I’m out camping, I’m not on the clock...
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:11 PM   #34
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"Less is More" ?

In the interest of full transparency:

All the “Department of Overkill Engineering” stuff I’m doing lately has manual overrides or hand cranks as part of the design...even the front and rear 30 amp power ports that I’m rigging up to make it easy to connect the propane powered inverter generator that lives in the bed of the truck has a MANUAL transfer switch...
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:18 PM   #35
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I agree with Cru-in. I add the tech that makes sense. Who can argue that LED lighting isn’t a godsend for trailers?- more light for less power

We added a flat screen Television/Omnidirectional Antenna/Blueray Player- can’t beat watching Marvel Movies before bed and Perry Mason at breakfast!

Did I try to repair the original pully driven water pump? No, Not interested in staying original if it is inferior.

I did however replace every electrical component on our old Dometic Fridge to bring it back to life. Works perfect now on shorepower; but doesnt draw any electric (no curcuit board) when using L.P.

Shawn
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Old 11-09-2019, 06:23 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsbrodsky View Post
Rather than hijack another thread I thought I would start a new one with this quote from the other thread:
"It is difficult to boondock in a new small AS with an "all electric" fridge, especially with limited roof space for solar panels. The good ol' "Less is More" variety of AS is fading away. Sad IMO.

Peter"

I have only been an Airstream owner for 6+ years but I note some dissonance with Airstream's insertion of technology. I, too, wonder whether "less is more" is better for camping, as opposed to glamping. An example raised in another thread is CZONE and whether it will be supported in the long term since its predecessor was not.
A lot of this stuff is "cool" and maybe Airstream has to add this stuff to keep up with other brands, but it seems that it is making owner maintenance and remote camping more difficult, even obsolete eventually. I would offer this opinion; if you have an older trailer without the newer bells and whistles, you better maintain it and hold on to it.
Any agreement?
Larry
We specifically chose our AS because it has no “gizmos”. Everything is manual, very little can leave you stranded.
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Old 11-09-2019, 11:44 AM   #37
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Quote:
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Hi all first of all what new small model Airstream are you talking about that has a only electric fridge all the ones that we have sold are electric and propane? I enjoy vintage Airstreams but for the brand to continue we need to make and sell new ones,There are many Airstream tastes out there as well as clients that trade there Airstream every few years love them lol..So for those that love and keep their old or vintage trailers love you guys but those that buy new love you more.....
Who is "we" you referred to in your post?
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Old 11-09-2019, 12:23 PM   #38
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Hi all first of all what new small model Airstream are you talking about that has a only electric fridge all the ones that we have sold are electric and propane? I enjoy vintage Airstreams but for the brand to continue we need to make and sell new ones,There are many Airstream tastes out there as well as clients that trade there Airstream every few years love them lol..So for those that love and keep their old or vintage trailers love you guys but those that buy new love you more.....
I’m confused too. Do you make Airstreams?
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Old 11-09-2019, 01:04 PM   #39
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You know, I wonder if Airstream has a "delete" option for a new order? Remember when you could order a car with radio delete or A/C delete or heater delete? I suppose that is too much to ask...but with what they are building now and the cost of same, I assure you that I will never buy new. But they don't care about that.
Larry
Hi

They most certainly do have a delete option. You can swap out an A/C unit for a fantastic fan ( or something similar ). It will add cost to the order over having the A/C since it's non-standard.

If you delete the control system on a trailer that does have one, you would probably get a large pile of wire and no switches for anything. Not sure you want to pay extra for that.

You can get a near empty shell and go from there. Again, the price is about the same / higher than a fully done up trailer.

Bottom line is that doing anything "different" gets expensive.

Bob
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Old 11-09-2019, 03:55 PM   #40
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Not sure how to describe the tech I like and tech I steer away from.

Here is the Tech I like that has been added:
Bluetooth Battery Monitor
Bluethooth Solar Charge Controller
LiFePo Batteries
LED Lights
Backup camera
Electric stabilizers (with easy manual override)
DC to DC Charger (does wonders at improving TV charge of batteries)
Remote Temp Monitor (to make sure RV is cool for the Dog when we are away).

For us, all these items do help us enjoy camping.

If they break, or become outdated, each of them is easily replaceable with a different model. I consider these items discrete, stand alone tech. For example, when the world goes to 5G wireless, we can easily replace the 4G remote temp sensor.

The tech that concerns me is unique tech that is heavily integrated into the RV. Like remote control of blinds, lights, AC, Heat, etc.
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