Guns on the road

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

We can agree to disagree on that.

13-Year-Old Guns Down Home Invaders with Mom’s Gun. 1 Dead, 1 Arrested.




Brevi tempore!

Of course we can.
But allow me to, respectfully, suggest that the plural of "anecdote" isn't "data".


But perhaps, if you wish to have access to real data, you'll give this study a minute of your time: Sign In

I can't post the full content of the study for copyright reasons (you have to purchase access and the license prohibits re-publishing) but here's a good synopsis as published by Slate:

The most recent study examining the relationship between firearms and homicide rates on a state level, published last April, found a significant positive relationship between gun ownership and overall homicide levels.

Using data from 1981–2010 and the best firearm ownership proxy to date, the study found that for every 1 percent increase in gun ownership, there was a 1.1 percent increase in the firearm homicide rate and a 0.7 percent increase in the total homicide rate.

This was after controlling for factors such as poverty, unemployment, income inequality, alcohol consumption, and nonhomicide violent crime.

Further, the firearm ownership rate had no statistically significant impact on nonfirearm homicides, meaning there was no detectable substitution effect. That is, in the absence of guns, would-be criminals are not switching to knives or some other weapons to carry out homicide.

These results are supported by a host of previous studies that illustrate that guns increase the rate of homicides.

Sources: Dr Michael Siegel, Department of Community Health Sciences, Boston University School of Public Health, 801 Massachusetts Avenue, 3rd Floor, Boston, MA 02118

[McDave]

Originally Posted by SCOTTinNJ

I know very little about shotguns, but what is the real benefit of a 12g vs 20g? Wouldn't 20g be plenty of stopping power and a bit easier to handle for the smaller, weaker, or older crowd?

Depending on who you compare me to I may qualify for all three.

Reminds me of the Texas Ranger who was asked why he thought it was necessary to carry a .45. His answer: "because they don't make a .46."

Remember why you're getting this thing. If you get a short barreled pump shotgun, it's good for one thing and one thing only: the remote possibility that you might have to use it to save your life. The learning curve is short; you're not going to have to shoot it that many times to learn to use it at short ranges. More important is if you have the mental capability to use it at all if the unthinkable happens.

If you were asking if a 20 gauge would be better than a 12 gauge for shooting a lot of trap or skeet, your ability to perform for many shots would be an issue. When you're only going to have to perform for one shot, I would say get the 12 gauge. Or, if you think you might be unable to perform mentally or physically for that one critical shot, then you probably are better off with no firearm.

[r carl]

Originally Posted by Airtandem

I recently saw a 410 double barrel about 12 inches with pistol grip that was stock. Now, where was that and who was the manufacturer? Would that be classified a pistol or a shotgun?

Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

Of course we can.
But allow me to, respectfully, suggest that the plural of "anecdote" isn't "data".......

......This was after controlling for factors such as poverty, unemployment, income inequality, alcohol consumption, and nonhomicide violent crime.
I]

And yet, how does the "adjusted data" deal with the drop in violent crime and homicides that has accompanied rise of legal concealed and open carry?

If what you say is true, why do overall rates and trends demonstrate the opposite?




Brevi tempore!

[NWRVR]

Originally Posted by NWGetaways

Come on people. It's just not true. You (or someone in your family) is much more likely to die from a gunshot wound if you have a gun in your possession than not.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...nsive-gun-use/


Using Guns In Self-Defense Is Rare, Study Finds

Quote: in 2010 “there were only 230 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm” reported to the F.B.I.’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program. Compare that with the number of criminal gun homicides in the same year: 8,275.

Quote #2. Maybe if more of those 8,275 homicide victims had a gun for self-defence that number wouldn't have been 8,275.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by NWRVR

Quote: in 2010 “there were only 230 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm” reported to the F.B.I.’s Uniform Crime Reporting Program. Compare that with the number of criminal gun homicides in the same year: 8,275.

Quote #2. Maybe if more of those 8,275 homicide victims had a gun for self-defence that number wouldn't have been 8,275.

I'm guessing that quite a few of those 8,275 homicide victims were also armed, but were worst shots than those they were shooting at.

I have also read that every gun owner is law abiding, right up until they shoot 22 kids and 4 teachers.

Cheers
Tony

[jcl]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

And yet, how does the "adjusted data" deal with the drop in violent crime and homicides that has accompanied rise of legal concealed and open carry?

If what you say is true, why do overall rates and trends demonstrate the opposite?

A recent study out of Texas refutes the claim that concealed carry leads to reduced crime.

Concealed guns have zero effect on crime rates - Futurity

[J. Morgan]

When the details of a "study" go contrary to the bigger picture, then in my view the "study" is highly suspect.

Simply put, crime dropped dramatically in the era of concealed carry... Period.

This verifiable and observable trend goes against the reported results of the study.


Brevi tempore!

[BoldAdventure]

I like pumpkin pie. Does anyone else like pumpkin pie?

[J. Morgan]

Does it taste like sewer rat Jules?

"A sewer rat might taste like pumpkin pie, but I will never know because I wont eat the filthy #%^* %}#^."


Brevi tempore!

[J. Morgan]

Lets just be honest, in the "information age" a "study" can be presented to support just about ANY position.


Brevi tempore!

[rmkrum]

"There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics." Samuel Clemens.


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[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by CRH

Yes, a 20 gauge has plenty of stopping power and is easier on the shooter over the 12 gauge. Of course, you can get 12 gauge reduced recoil rounds. We use them at work.

****

The higher the "gauge" the smaller the shell.

10 gauge. 12 gauge. 20 gauge. Are good examples.

A 20 gauge for only self defense is appropriate. Makes lots of noise no matter what anyone might say. Although you would need to hire someone to do sheetrock work if used indoors.

A 12 gauge is more shot gun than you need, unless you hunt geese or duck from a blind. Some States have hunting season for deer using "slugs" rather than buckshot. Probably for East Coast and congested State hunting.

A 10 gauge. That is a cannon with a stock. If you are not braced against something, it will knock you on your buttocks. I was introduced to an older shotgun that was a single shot 10 gauge at 15 years old in Missouri. I stood up in front of the log I was sitting and found myself on the other side after firing it above tree line.
*******

As I had said before... statistics are exactly that. "A random variable that takes on the possible values of a statistic. adverb definition" As a noun "a single term or datum in a collection of statistics".

Now does everyone understand Statistics? Those are the Webster's definition. Mine definition: "Be careful of statistics as both sides of an argument can take the same information and prove themselves to be correct."

[CRH]

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

I like pumpkin pie. Does anyone else like pumpkin pie?

I love pumpkin pie...Even better....Kroger has pumpkin pie ice cream.

[BoldAdventure]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Does it taste like sewer rat Jules?

"A sewer rat might taste like pumpkin pie, but I will never know because I wont eat the filthy #%^* %}#^."


Brevi tempore!

"Dogs got personality. Personality goes a long way"

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by BoldAdventure

"Dogs got personality. Personality goes a long way"

Would you eat a dog?


Brevi tempore!

[rmkrum]

Not on purpose, unless starving. They don't taste that good. Greasy.


Sent from my pocket Internet using Airstream Forums

[Ampman]

Criminals and bears don't care about the statistics and the laws. I'm not going down without a fight and I sleep real sound knowing I have an edge. I may not win in the end but maybe I'll take some criminals with me. To each his own.

[AWCHIEF]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

Would you eat a dog?


Brevi tempore!

I have spent a large portion of my life in regions of the world where dogs, monkeys and cats are considered food not pets. Eat enough street food and you will eat all three.

[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

I have spent a large portion of my life in regions of the world where dogs, monkeys and cats are considered food not pets. Eat enough street food and you will eat all three.

You made me laugh.


Brevi tempore!