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Old 11-13-2015, 12:06 AM   #169
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Tim, #3 is absolutely correct, but in some states (NY) the cops and prosecutors do not care. They will arrest you and take you to jail. Sure, you may successfully plead the case to the judge but you see what's happened? You have an arrest record, an overnight jail stay, and a healthy lawyer bill just to prove you were being lawful.
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Old 11-13-2015, 01:12 AM   #170
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There have already been a couple of cases in NYS - notably NYC; and the Federal Courts heavily fined the NYPD and a couple of Sheriff's departments - as well as awarded some hefty damages to the couple of guys who were arrested while legally carrying under LEOSA. Bottom line: The only person who will ever see my weapon is the one about to be shot with it, and then I have a WHOLE lot more 'splainin to do than the status of my CCP.

Upstate NY is mostly gun-friendly if you are legal. I can't imagine camping in New York City; so I'll put my trust in my retired badge and my LEOSA ID card...
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Old 11-13-2015, 06:28 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Ray Eklund View Post
I am obviously much too old and brought up in a rural area of Montana to understand some previous observations and erroneous beliefs possessing a firearm. Pistol, rifle, shotgun... all can be lethal. To man, foul or deer.

I dreamed some Christmas morning that Santa would bring me a two six shooter Roy Rogers pistol and ammunition belt. Too expensive for Santa, but I still dreamed. I had the single shooter where you put a cap onto a cartridge and it would go... bang. Never robbed a bank nor did any other youngster in our Saturday Western frenzy in the woods.

It was common to find one or two rifles in a rifle holder in the rear window of a pickup truck. Many Ranchers would use one or the other for animals feeding off their new born livestock. Not to harm or intimidate anyone out of malice.

I was at a HOA meeting in Colorado where a home owner who could have installed what he wanted, but asked at a general HOA meeting. He wanted to build a Firing Range in the basement of his home. Some board members acted as if it was a crime against humanity. Board members who moved out to the rural area to... think like they were still in Los Angeles or Chicago. The president of the HOA commented "times have changed" and that he would vote against such an outrageous idea."

Not to be unheard I spoke up. "It is not that times have changed. People have changed."

It was approved.

My neighbor did not need to ask for HOA permission. Times have changed because the people have changed. There is an outdoor County police firing range north of our rural Ranch Community. There are the sounds of rifles closer to the Front Range on a ranch, sighting their rifles for the Fall hunt. We think nothing of it. Even in... Front Range Colorado, which is changing to a West Coast philosophy of Liberalism.

Living near the USA and Canadian border in Montana has changed, as well. You could spend Canadian currency in Kalispell in the 1950's. Some cash drawers handled both currencies. Today, probably a Federal Currency offense with punishment exceeding that of an Open Carry of a firearm.

Rancher's in western Nebraska open carry their Colt 1876 45 caliber revolvers whenever they feel the need. Rifles still mounted in the rear window, without a neighbor stealing them.

People have Changed. Remember that. Politically correctness has clouded Common Sense. I have seen Open Carry at a Five Guys burger joint in Castle Rock, CO. I did not freak out or hide the family from harm. Although not the most intelligent thing I have seen in some time, but a concealed weapon would have been more appropriate.

If anyone while camped in the Rocky Mountains wants to use Bear Spray against a 800 pound bear... it is fine with me. You might get one chance at 20 feet or less. Myself... my presence is all it takes to frighten any large carnivore from the area. I pee high up on the side of a tree and kick up dirt and dust with the best of them. I avoid leaving SCAT, but if it would help some of you... I will help you out.

There is no right or righter opinion. Carry a firearm, but have a purpose other than being an overgrown kid that now can afford a pistol belt with two revolvers.

When the US Military cannot trust their own trained soldiers on Base with a loaded weapon... there is something wrong with us. People have changed and it is not going to improve for a long, long time.
Once again your comments are right on target, I agree completely. Keep it up.
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Old 11-13-2015, 06:56 AM   #172
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........snip.
"I dreamed some Christmas morning that Santa would bring me a two six shooter Roy Rogers pistol and ammunition belt. Too expensive for Santa, but I still dreamed. I had the single shooter where you put a cap onto a cartridge and it would go... bang. Never robbed a bank nor did any other youngster in our Saturday Western frenzy in the woods."
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Old 11-13-2015, 07:08 AM   #173
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To the OP question. If you have a desire, take a NRA or other gun safety course, even if you know how to use. Then buy a revolver, not a semi. Reason it's dependable no matter how long you keep it loaded.

Next, I have taught weapons safety in my past, certified. EVERY state has different laws. Someone mentioned SC being anti gun. SC is gun friendly, just not out of state concealed carry friendly as one can have a loaded weapon in the vehicle in plain sight at all times. Just don't get out of the vehicle with it unless you have a residence CCW and SC does not issue out of state CCW permits.

Next, piece of advice to all who carry with a license and have the weapon(s) in the vehicle not on your person or both. Your traveling partner should have the exact same license as you do. Reason, in the event you stop at a fuel station, rest area etc and only you get out of the vehicle and your traveling partner stays in the vehicle with the weapon, that person is deemed to have possession of the weapon, ie it's their weapon and as such they need a proper permit.

Federal law does allow one to travel through states where one cannot secure a non resident CCW, ie NY, NJ, IL etc. The weapon must be locked and unaccessible and the ammo must be locked and also unaccessible. One cannot stop except for fuel, to eat or bathroom, in the case of NY one must also have a reservation in another state or be going home.

As to probable cause for a stop, anything at anytime and anyplace can be probable cause. If not they can and will make it up.

Some states have "demand" laws ie when stopped or even talking to a LEO and you are carrying you are required by law to inform the officer "I have a weapon" - "I have proper permits" - "how would you like to proceed" is the way I handle such stops, and I've been stopped as I tend to motor down the road pretty quickly.

My wife and I have four CCW permits, this covers 40 states. Then other states which do not accept the four we have some are like OR and SC where we can have it in our vehicle, just not on our person. Others we go by the Federal "passing thru law"

In addition to the multiple weapons we carry, our main source of initial defense is wasp spray and also bear spray, plus two large dogs, neither of which would hurt anyone, but bark loudly if someone is around and we have gone to bed.

Do not pull a weapon to scare someone, it's a felony in many states. Do what "Bold" did, strap it on and walk around.

Into Canada, long guns with proper permit are fine, as are revolvers with at least a 4" barrel, done it many times. On the form NEVER check the box "personal protection", always check the one for "protection from wildlife".

If you have to draw your weapon we teach for one in a very loud voice "I have a weapon" - " I know how to use my weapon" - "please leave the area". All without drawing the weapon or showing the weapon. Loud so witnesses can hear if they are around.

Last, if you are not comfortable with a weapon (gun) don't get one and don't carry as in all probability you will only hurt yourself or someone else.

My Best to all - Enjoy your Airstreams

Bud
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Old 11-13-2015, 07:31 AM   #174
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Ok, I realize now I don't have to worry about any of this.

The bad guys will read this thread and realize Airstreamers are all armed to the teeth.

Thanks!
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Old 11-13-2015, 07:56 AM   #175
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There is some truth to that. Criminals as a rule DO prefer unarmed victims.

The evidence tends to support this.


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Old 11-13-2015, 09:09 AM   #176
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I am not opposed to a licensing system with proof of competency testing. I know this makes people cringe. But you have to prove you can drive a car at least once in your life.
I cringe. Just as I would cringe if you told me that my competence to reason and articulate must be proven to a government official in order to use my freedom of speech.

Training is common sense before using any weapon but consider the premise underlying your opinion. To do what you suggest gives purely subjective authority over your right to bears arms, to the very powers that the Bill of Rights is in place to protect you from taking it away.

Driving a car is a privilege granted by the government which we may choose to exercise or not. If we chose to exercise it, proof of competence is required and tested. The testing is essentially subjective, as is revocation.

Possession of arms in America is not a privilege, it is among our inalienable rights, revocable by no man and protected from revocation by government by the Bill of Rights. The right to bear arms was included among our unalienable rights, not for hunting nor for self defense but as a firewall. A firewall against government power that decides it has subjective discretion to grant or revoke rights that can be neither granted nor revoked.

If you willingly subject your inalienable right to bear arms to the discretion of a government bureaucrat who grades your "competence", you have surrendered your inalienable right to that government.

Just imagine the American colonists asking King George to judge their competence to own muskets.
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Old 11-13-2015, 09:12 AM   #177
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Americans have the right to carry, driving is a privilege.
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Old 11-13-2015, 09:22 AM   #178
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Then we can apply for our free speech license, our free religion license, and our due process license....


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Old 11-13-2015, 09:28 AM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paiceman View Post
Federal law does allow one to travel through states where one cannot secure a non resident CCW, ie NY, NJ, IL etc. The weapon must be locked and unaccessible and the ammo must be locked and also unaccessible. One cannot stop except for fuel, to eat or bathroom, in the case of NY one must also have a reservation in another state or be going home.
Paiceman, excellent post. Quick question, do you travel through or stop in states like NY, NJ, MD, MA? Wondering how you handle them. What about cities like DC, NYC, or Philly?

Also, for reference, this is the Federal Law you are talking about.

18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle:



Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
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Old 11-13-2015, 11:07 AM   #180
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Ok, I concede, stupid notion.

I did have another thought, we have DARE in schools right. Why couldn't sheriffs have a gun program, teach kids gun safety, how to shoot. Get them exposed at an early age to know this isn't a movie and a weapon is the power of life and death. Might prevent kids from accidently shooting themselves.

Teach them to treat all weapons as loaded, etc.
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Old 11-13-2015, 11:45 AM   #181
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Ok, I concede, stupid notion.

I did have another thought, we have DARE in schools right. Why couldn't sheriffs have a gun program, teach kids gun safety, how to shoot. Get them exposed at an early age to know this isn't a movie and a weapon is the power of life and death. Might prevent kids from accidently shooting themselves.

Teach them to treat all weapons as loaded, etc.
Haha. Around here, heaven forbid if poor Johny Schoolboy bites a cracker into a shape that someone perceives as being of a gun and he's looking at 3 days of detention. And you want them to handle real guns?

(I don't disagree with you).
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Old 11-13-2015, 11:56 AM   #182
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