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Old 11-12-2015, 07:55 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Ultradog View Post
What I find sad is the people who don't like guns and even brag that they've never owned or even shot one think they have some uncanny insight into the things and should be the arbiters on whether other others should have them.

What I will say is that who are in favor of gun rights are not arguing to take away a current right, the same can not be said of the other position.

I think Americans have surrendered more than enough of their sovereignty as things stand now.


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Old 11-12-2015, 07:57 PM   #156
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I have no real horse in this race, but I often wonder of we Canadians are at more risk when traveling in the US due to our license plates, combined with bad guys' knowledge of Canadian gun restrictions!



Brian.


Early on in Florida's CCW days, the rate of attacks on obvious out of state people skyrocketed... Any Floridian could have a gun, but at the time, no out of stater could carry, so they were obvious targets. As reciprocity has increased, the overall crime rate in the state has continued to drop.

According to the latest figures available to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, there are 111 (out of 218) countries that have a higher per capita murder rate than the United States... We come in at 4.7 per 100,000. The U.K. and Australia, which both entirely outlaw firearms, and are island nations, come in at 1.0 and 1.1 respectively, a difference of 3.7 per 100,000 people. Meaning, out of every 100,000 people, .0037 percent fewer people are killed in two nations that have completely taken away their citizens rights to own firearms. Island nations, with a lower population density than the US... Let's look at India, which also bans the ownership of firearms, unless you are well connected, or a government official (hmmmm, I wonder how that happens?). India, with an admittedly much higher population density, is at 3.7 per 100,000. One per 100,000 less than we are. Closer to home, Cuba, which doesn't allow for the private ownership of firearms, has a murder rate of 4.2 per 100,000. That puts them at .0005 percent fewer murders per 100,000 people than the US. Firearms illegal, and an island nation, and barely lower than we are... Now, on the other end of the spectrum, Switzerland, who ranks fourth overall in the world in gun ownership per capita, has a murder rate of .6 per 100,000 people.

We don't have a gun problem in this country. As more and more states have passed "Shall issue" concealed carry permits, the murder rate in America has been in steady decline. Not saying CCW causes the decrease, only that they happen simultaneously. FL issued their first CCW in 1987. Six years later, in 1993, the murder rate in America hit its peak, and started a pretty steady rate of decline, as 11 other states joined FL. By 2014, 41 states joined in with "shall issue" concealed carry laws, and the murder rate hit it's lowest number since 1968, while our population increased by 120 million people.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:02 PM   #157
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I'm saying that there are ways to share ideas that communicate the sharer has enough EQ to care about how the listener feels about the idea. And there are ways to share ideas that communicate the sharer possesses low EQ (thus the perception of incivility) and cares more about being right than building relationships. I'm hoping this reply demonstrates both. Everyone's mileage will vary in terms of preference.
Emotional intelligence is certainly a skill and one that is difficult to master in writing. Especially on something like a forum.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:02 PM   #158
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I am obviously much too old and brought up in a rural area of Montana to understand some previous observations and erroneous beliefs possessing a firearm. Pistol, rifle, shotgun... all can be lethal. To man, foul or deer.

I dreamed some Christmas morning that Santa would bring me a two six shooter Roy Rogers pistol and ammunition belt. Too expensive for Santa, but I still dreamed. I had the single shooter where you put a cap onto a cartridge and it would go... bang. Never robbed a bank nor did any other youngster in our Saturday Western frenzy in the woods.

It was common to find one or two rifles in a rifle holder in the rear window of a pickup truck. Many Ranchers would use one or the other for animals feeding off their new born livestock. Not to harm or intimidate anyone out of malice.

I was at a HOA meeting in Colorado where a home owner who could have installed what he wanted, but asked at a general HOA meeting. He wanted to build a Firing Range in the basement of his home. Some board members acted as if it was a crime against humanity. Board members who moved out to the rural area to... think like they were still in Los Angeles or Chicago. The president of the HOA commented "times have changed" and that he would vote against such an outrageous idea."

Not to be unheard I spoke up. "It is not that times have changed. People have changed."

It was approved.

My neighbor did not need to ask for HOA permission. Times have changed because the people have changed. There is an outdoor County police firing range north of our rural Ranch Community. There are the sounds of rifles closer to the Front Range on a ranch, sighting their rifles for the Fall hunt. We think nothing of it. Even in... Front Range Colorado, which is changing to a West Coast philosophy of Liberalism.

Living near the USA and Canadian border in Montana has changed, as well. You could spend Canadian currency in Kalispell in the 1950's. Some cash drawers handled both currencies. Today, probably a Federal Currency offense with punishment exceeding that of an Open Carry of a firearm.

Rancher's in western Nebraska open carry their Colt 1876 45 caliber revolvers whenever they feel the need. Rifles still mounted in the rear window, without a neighbor stealing them.

People have Changed. Remember that. Politically correctness has clouded Common Sense. I have seen Open Carry at a Five Guys burger joint in Castle Rock, CO. I did not freak out or hide the family from harm. Although not the most intelligent thing I have seen in some time, but a concealed weapon would have been more appropriate.

If anyone while camped in the Rocky Mountains wants to use Bear Spray against a 800 pound bear... it is fine with me. You might get one chance at 20 feet or less. Myself... my presence is all it takes to frighten any large carnivore from the area. I pee high up on the side of a tree and kick up dirt and dust with the best of them. I avoid leaving SCAT, but if it would help some of you... I will help you out.

There is no right or righter opinion. Carry a firearm, but have a purpose other than being an overgrown kid that now can afford a pistol belt with two revolvers.

When the US Military cannot trust their own trained soldiers on Base with a loaded weapon... there is something wrong with us. People have changed and it is not going to improve for a long, long time.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:08 PM   #159
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I don't get the connection between perceived incivility and being protected from ideas. But I did perceive incivility when you were dismissive, on numerous posts, of people who voice a different opinion than yours.
Whateverz, go fly away little bird.



























See what I did there? Ok, so maybe I'm not as funny as I think I am in my head. I'm only joking.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:12 PM   #160
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Reading along ...
As a retired soldier with extra weapons training I get a little concerned about the training level of people who own and (especially) carry weapons. But I have no idea what formal training, if any, is necessary to get a carry permit of any level in the civilian world, so I'll leave it there.
If you really want to stir the hornets nest, go to a truck driver forum for this subject.
I get a kick out of this guy.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:22 PM   #161
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Reading along ...
As a retired soldier with extra weapons training I get a little concerned about the training level of people who own and (especially) carry weapons. But I have no idea what formal training, if any, is necessary to get a carry permit of any level in the civilian world, so I'll leave it there.
If you really want to stir the hornets nest, go to a truck driver forum for this subject.
Completely agree. There is no real formal training. Like zlich. I've seen the videos where they do the mock mass shootings and people can't even get their gun out of their holsters.

I am not opposed to a licensing system with proof of competency testing. I know this makes people cringe. But you have to prove you can drive a car at least once in your life.

Wife and I have both had the opportunity to train in both basic pistol fighting and advanced pistol fighting and in tactical carbine.

To be honest, we don't train or even shoot the carbines since having kids. And since being on the road there has been no continuation of pistol training.

It's a perishable skill for certain. We used to go down to a range in Manatee, FL and do drills drawing from the holster. I'd stand behind the wife, yell and use a buzzer, try to create as much as a high-stress scenario as possible.

Just shooting at the range isn't the same as real life. Ask any officer. Your body behaves completely differently under stress.

I heard a saying a while ago, amateurs train till perfect, professionals train till failure. The point being one is learning from those failures. The other never fails and never learns.

I don't claim to have any answers. Or know everything. I just think there could be better ways to protect innocents and not infringe on rights.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:24 PM   #162
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That was me wanting to add to your statement. And you're right. I know I'm a younger guy around these parts, but whatever happened to the days when guys could have a disagreement, even throw a few punches and then have a beer together?

Oh now I see, Bold, you meant to be on the pro wrassling forum.


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Old 11-12-2015, 08:27 PM   #163
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When we crossed into Canada in September the border agent asked if we had pepper spray. I replied that we did have bear spray. He asked if it was a large can and I replied it was. He said that it was fine.

I guess they don't care for the small canister.
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:40 PM   #164
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"To be honest, we don't train or even shoot the carbines since having kids. And since being on the road there has been no continuation of pistol training.

It's a perishable skill for certain."

Very true. I qualified with a .45 when I was in the Marines, and carried a .45 for a year in Vietnam. Afterwards, I would practice fairly regularly with whatever pistol or revolver I owned. Then came about a 20 year period when I didn't shoot a pistol at all. About a year ago, a friend became interested in shooting and we went out to the range together to shoot our pistols. I was amazed at my lack of accuracy! I couldn't hit much of anything at 15 yards. If I had to put a number on it, I would say I was shooting 12" groups at 15 yards. By comparison, I can usually put 6 arrows into a 4" circle at 20 yards. I would be better off defending myself with my bow! But since that isn't really practical, I decided I'd better keep the pistol in the safe and the Remington 870 by the bed.


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Old 11-12-2015, 08:44 PM   #165
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This thread has gone on farther faster than any tire thread or tow vehicle thread-


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Old 11-12-2015, 09:11 PM   #166
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Humanely dispatching vehicle-struck injured animals (deer particularly) is an important use case.
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Old 11-12-2015, 09:55 PM   #167
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I have a concealed carry permit and hope to God I never have to use my weapon, but I will be armed to defend my home and family from intruders who threatens us with harm. Just remember, if you have to fire, expect half of your assets to be used to defend yourself, even if you miss.
If you legally carry a concealed weapon (or even keep a gun at home for potential defensive use) you would be prudent to carry insurance against this eventuality. Two organizations that I am aware of that offer such are:

Second Call Defense | Complete Legal Protection For Armed Self Defense

and

Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network, Inc.

Your mileage may vary, read prospectus carefully before sending money.
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:42 PM   #168
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For what my opinion is worth, here goes:

1.) For those people vehemently against carrying a weapon while Airstreaming - don't.

2.) For those who wish to carry - do so legally. State CCPs work great for your state and those granting reciprocity. Other states will throw you in jail. It is up to you to know which is which.

3.) Federal law trumps state law. Always. Even in NJ, NY, IL, CA & MA. Federal interstate carry law is very simple:

18 U.S. Code 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms

"Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle:

Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."


4.) The only permit that is good in all 50 states and DC is the Federal LEOSA (H.R. 218) for current and retired law enforcement officers. This includes retired military LEOs (MP, SF, etc.). I'm in the process of getting that paperwork and permit issued.

5.) If you are going to pull the trigger, know the laws on deadly force. There is no such thing as "shooting to wound". You will lose everything in a civil suit and possibly go to jail. You may only shoot if you feel (perceive) that you or another is in mortal danger. You must answer with the same. If you have military or police training, respond as you were trained: double or triple tap, center mass. Period.

6.) If you are trained and proficient with a handgun, carry it (legally). If you are not, gunplay is not something you want to learn OJT (on-the-job). Nothing beats a shotgun. Nothing. 00 Buck wins just about every argument, and shotguns have the least amount of regulatory BS.

7.) Don't bring a pistol to Canada, just don't. Their country, their laws. There is no extraterritoriality to the 2nd Amendment. You can get a permit through the RCMP to "transport" a shotgun. See #6.

8.) To answer the OP's question, it is a matter of personal choice and circumstances. If I'm going on a short trip and staying at friends places or known (safe) campgrounds, I don't pack a firearm. If I'm in unknown territory, or have any intention of camping in a truck stop or Walmart, I do. I carried a pistol for 27 years in military and Federal law enforcement, and (thank God) never had to pull the trigger. That's not to say I never had to draw the weapon. I certainly don't expect or want to have to pull the trigger while camping as a retired geezer; but I also don't want to die wishing I'd had that option. It is a tool, the same as my 12v compressor or my generator. I'd really rather not have a flat tire - but I carry a spare just in case.

Be safe!

Tim
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