Guns

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by Mrjkq

Better to have & not need, than need & not have. I've never fired any gun I've owned in self defense & never want to....but I will if it's me or him (her).

We seem to be getting more to the "should we carry" rather than focusing on the OP's question regarding a shotgun.

I carry and have a license to do so that is honored in most of the western state where I live. I would not carry if I intended to go to Canada.

I do not carry a shotgun, however, since a shotgun is more difficult to maneuver than a pistol.

You can get bird shot rounds for most standard pistol calibers. These can be lethal at close range, and disperse some, but not like a shotgun.

Remember, most states will judge use of deadly force on whether or not you feared for your life or the life of someone else. You can't run out and shoot somebody stealing your tow vehicle or generator if they are going the other way and you are not in immediate danger. (I am sure there is variance on who gets charged with crimes from state to state).

In addition to carrying a 40 Smith and Wesson with 135 grain hollow point bullets, I use some RF motion alarms that are battery operated and have a base station that is also capable of being battery operated or operated with a DC wall wart if you are plugged in. These motion sensing units that produce the number of high pitched beeps consistent with the number of units you have 'registered' with the base station and can wake you during the night and alert you that somebody is lurking outside.

I have had alerts in the middle of the night and decided that I needed to put my sensors up on tables to only get tall targets (deer would likely still trigger, but at least I eliminate rabbits and coyotes). I can use a high powered flashlight to try to scare folks away, but I rely on my AS door dead bolt to keep me safe.

If for some unlikely reason I did venture out of the trailer when I identified somebody in my campsite [I would rather let them steal things than face a lawsuit for shooting and injuring somebody], I would carry my firearm in the event somebody pulled a gun on me. If I feared for my life, and only if I feared for my life or the life of my spouse (kids grown and don't camp with us), I at least have the option of defending myself.

There are daytime scenarios as well, but I find it hard to imagine a shotgun being in any of them... in many states, brandishing a weapon is also a crime, but carrying a shotgun pointed down may be a deterrent in some cases.

So in addition to all of the questions regarding background, training, familiarity with firearms, etc. that really focus on whether or not you are endangering yourself more by being armed than unarmed (all good questions), you probably don't want to use a shotgun if you opt to carry. Shotguns are typically not concealed or concealable, so different laws may apply, allowing you to be legal in more states... and IF you do go with a shotgun, get a self-defense version with a legal but shorter barrel (easier to handle in tight quarters) and a higher capacity for loaded shells.

Just my humble opinion.

[21Airstream]

The problem with a shotgun is the ammo. With the exception of rifled slugs, you're firing several lead balls that have a tendency to spread at distance. This is one of the reasons LE is moving away from shotguns.

I absolutely agree with not shooting someone if you don't have to.


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[ejritz]

I've done a bit of reading on this in the north country. If travelling in Canada, be aware that firearms laws are considered federal jurisdiction and the standard (coast to coast) is to keep them double locked (trigger/action locked and container/cabinet locked) when not in use. Hand guns are considered restricted, and short handguns with less than 4.1" barrel, are prohibited. Most gov't campgrounds have an outright ban on guns. There are probably some additional complications, paperwork, etc. bringing a gun across the border. Shooting at a range or club tends to be more easily justifiable than other purposes, and at some point in the recent past they sometimes asked to see your invitation to the club in order to legally transport 'restricted' guns -- transport of restricted guns requires a specific permit denoting destination.

Shotguns and hunting rifles tend to have fewer restrictions, relatively speaking.

Do expect to spend considerable time reading the gov't web sites about crossing the border and regarding permits (under the RCMP). Although the firearms act does allow for it, don't expect to get a carry permit... as they are rarely granted to non-LEO. Hunting seasons tend to vary by county and fall under provincial jurisdiction under the ministry of natural resources. (Do note that hunting licenses are therefore separate from firearm licenses.)

You might also consider bear spray, which is usually less complicated, fraught with fewer legalities.

[21Airstream]

Years ago a Canadian LEO told me shotguns are the easiest firearm to legally carry in Canada but on the few trips I've made into Canada I've been unarmed. Rule #1 for me is to obey the law. Their country, their rules.


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[Scorge-ION]

Something nobody's addressed: holster. If you confront somebody with a shotgun in your hand, he can hurt (shoot) you legally in self-defense. If you have a holstered pistol or revolver, how can you be accused of "brandishing" a weapon?
I've responded to "bumps in the night" but never had to actually shoot. A strong flashlight works far better. If it's a deputy sheriff or a neighbor needing help (like a neighbor needing help with a cow) I'm not going out there with a gun in my hand; I'll have a flashlight in my hand, instead.
A while back I read a news story about a home owner who was shot and killed by a LEO. The LEO was investigating reports of a prowler. The home owner had heard something and was standing in the shadows with a pistol in his hand. The LEO saw the form in the shadows with a gun and shot him. Do not repeat this mistake!
Having said that, a pistol or revolver is very difficult to shoot accurately. Practice.
Yes, this is my first post, Hi, there, I'm
Dave, The Scourge of the ION.
Please say that squinting like Clint, with your upper lip curled back in a sneer, and speaking out of the left side of your mouth.
Now, say that again without giggling at yourself!

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by 21Airstream

If the possession of a firearm helps a person sleep, what's the harm?

There are consequences to every decision:

• someone could steal your gun and commit a crime with it
• someone could steal your gun and use it against you
• you could shoot an innocent person thinking they are a threat
• you could be shot by a criminal "in self-defence" because you have a gun
• a child could get your gun and kill/injure themselves or someone else
• you could spend time and money on guns and training that you could have spent on something else
• ...or you could just sleep better

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander

There are consequences to every decision:

• someone could steal your gun and commit a crime with it
• someone could steal your gun and use it against you
• you could shoot an innocent person thinking they are a threat
• you could be shot by a criminal "in self-defence" because you have a gun
• a child could get your gun and kill/injure themselves or someone else
• you could spend time and money on guns and training that you could have spent on something else
• ...or you could just sleep better

There are risks to everything in life. We still drive cars...

[McDave]

I really don't have a dog in this fight, but I do have a question. Let's assume you have your shotgun in your home or AS, and an intruder breaks in. Everything goes perfectly, and ends up with the intruder spreadeagled on your floor and you with your shotgun pointed at his back. You whip out your cell phone with one hand as you are holding your shotgun with your other hand, and dial the police. Soon there is a knock at your door, and a voice outside announces "police!" What happens next? You don't want to put down your shotgun and answer the door, which seems only a slightly worse alternative than opening the door to an armed policeman while continuing to point your shotgun at someone on the floor. Both alternatives seem fraught with danger.


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[CRH]

You tell the dispatcher, what's going on, who you are, what you look like, and what you are wearing. Expect the police to come in and point guns at you until they feel safe and confirm your story....I reckon the police could make entry the same way the intruder did.

[DavidsonOverlander]

Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander

There are consequences to every decision:

• someone could steal your gun and commit a crime with it
• someone could steal your gun and use it against you
• you could shoot an innocent person thinking they are a threat
• you could be shot by a criminal "in self-defence" because you have a gun
• a child could get your gun and kill/injure themselves or someone else
• you could spend time and money on guns and training that you could have spent on something else
• ...or you could just sleep better

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

There are risks to everything in life. We still drive cars...

That is my point. Everything we do is a balance of risk and reward. The problem is that humans don't tend to be good at assessing risk. We tend to think that the things we hear about in the news happen more often than they actually do, but the reason they are news is often because they happen rarely. People are afraid to fly, but they're probably more likely to be killed in a car accident on the way to the airport, or as a pedestrian in whatever city they fly to.

I just don't think that the time and money spent in purchasing a firearm, securing it, and completing the necessary training would be a good use of my resources when the odds of ever needing it are very low. Also, as I pointed out, there are risks to owning a firearm, and while they also probably occur rarely, they need to be considered. Finally there is the issue of using the firearm improperly under the pressure of a threat. We know that police officers and soldiers, despite their extensive training, sometimes shoot an innocent person, sometimes have firearms accidents, and sometimes are shot before they can react to a threat.

I just don't think the world is such a scary place, although some politicians and fringe media outlets would have us believe that it is. Although I've travelled extensively, I've never been anywhere where I've felt like I've needed a gun. All things considered, for me it doesn't make sense to carry a weapon.

[SilverGate]

Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander

That is my point. Everything we do is a balance of risk and reward. The problem is that humans don't tend to be good at assessing risk...

Just ask Ralphie about his Red Ryder carbine action 200-shot Range Model air rifle... as told by Jean Shepherd:

He Nearly Shoots His Eye Out - A Christmas Story

[Len n Jeanne]

We do not own any guns. Therefore we do not travel with any guns. Very rarely have we felt insecure in all of our many camping trips. Sometimes we travel with bear spray, so I suppose we could use that on an intruder, two- or four-legged.

We don't camp in urban areas outside of a reputable-looking commercial RV park or Airstream of Spokane, but we do camp in remote and isolated parts of the West.

The one time we did feel alarmed in a campground actually was sort of funny. It was after dark, raining hard, and we were ready for bed in our jamies. There was a knock at the door. Cautiously, I opened it, fearing the worst. It turned out to be a fellow Airstreamer,, who just wanted to say howdy, and who wondered if we wanted to join the Airstream club when he learned we were not members. He was a retired MD. Nice guy.

Please note, that Americans traveling to or through Canada have to leave their handguns at home, and fill out paperwork for hunting rifles. The official explanation given for the visitors' handgun ban is to protect the personal safety of Canadians.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/iefw-iefa-eng.html

http://www.ezbordercrossing.com/the-...m-into-canada/

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander

That is my point. Everything we do is a balance of risk and reward. The problem is that humans don't tend to be good at assessing risk. We tend to think that the things we hear about in the news happen more often than they actually do, but the reason they are news is often because they happen rarely. People are afraid to fly, but they're probably more likely to be killed in a car accident on the way to the airport, or as a pedestrian in whatever city they fly to.

I just don't think that the time and money spent in purchasing a firearm, securing it, and completing the necessary training would be a good use of my resources when the odds of ever needing it are very low. Also, as I pointed out, there are risks to owning a firearm, and while they also probably occur rarely, they need to be considered. Finally there is the issue of using the firearm improperly under the pressure of a threat. We know that police officers and soldiers, despite their extensive training, sometimes shoot an innocent person, sometimes have firearms accidents, and sometimes are shot before they can react to a threat.

I just don't think the world is such a scary place, although some politicians and fringe media outlets would have us believe that it is. Although I've travelled extensively, I've never been anywhere where I've felt like I've needed a gun. All things considered, for me it doesn't make sense to carry a weapon.

The world's not that scary of a place. That doesn't mean nothing ever happens. I actually "feel" safer in the urban place I live, with very good police protection, than I did when I lived and hiked in the wilds of Colorado. I always locked my doors out there and still do, not because I watch the news and think something will happen right away. I do it because it's easy and because if something DID happen it would really suck. Contrary to what I read on here, most people I know who carry are well versed in firearm use, and are not "obsessed" with it. They never discuss it and you would never know. The "effort" and "resources" they commit to it are about the same as you and I put into our tire pressure or 401(k) distribution.

I'm a defensive driver, probably one of the best around. I drive a HUGE vehicle to work and back. I literally wouldn't even feel it if someone ran a red light and got under my truck somehow. I "feel" really safe in that 6000 lb tank and when the weather is bad and people say they had a crappy commute I literally ask them what they are talking about, the roads are fine. I'm not obsessed with safety, just better prepared. But guess what? I still "obsess" over clicking on that seat belt every time. The guys with the subcompact Sparks and Priuses always take pot shots at the pickup truck and SUV guys for polluting, taking up too much room, etc. and We think they're naive driving something that small to try and save the planet or save $50 a week on gas; it stays civil (like this thread will��)

Montgomery Gentry has a great music video, to the song "you do your thing". It's excellent.

To the original poster's question: some do, some don't. Hopefully you can't tell at the campground who does and who doesn't. Have a plan for if things go south, then don't worry too much about it. If you're not good at assessing risk, maybe study up a bit, couldn't hurt.

[Naper]

There has been many comments on transporting guns into Canada. I would like to point out its the same for Canadians bringing guns into the US. Its not allowed unless you have a valid hunting licence or a written invitation to a shooting competition and then there is a whole mess of paper work to fill out. If a Canadian did happen to get a gun into the US or an American into Canada and get caught with it the consequences would probably be worse than if you actually used it. I believe illegal possession of a firearm in either country is a federal offence.

[r carl]

Originally Posted by LWinters

We re debating purchasing a tactical shotgun to keep in our camper for protection. I am curious to how many campers travel with a gun or have other security methods.

Why?

[Rich Jenkins]

Back on topic, I've found this to be an informative video on how to store a Home Defense shotgun:

https://youtu.be/dyqy8AC3uPQ

[FCStreamer]

Originally Posted by Llando88

Back on topic, I've found this to be an informative video on how to store a Home Defense shotgun:

https://youtu.be/dyqy8AC3uPQ

Very informative. Did not know about the drop safety issue. Thanks for sharing.

[Rich Jenkins]

Someone mentioned training, I heartily agree.

As an example of effective training needed, Tom Givens 'Defensive Shotgun I' is the type of education that (IMHO) anyone considering a shotgun should be taking:

http://rangemaster.com/training/defe...otgun-offsite/

[AWCHIEF]

I gave up a long time ago arguing with anti gun folks. I only hope they never have any reason to regret their decision or need to call the Police to protect them. We all have to make up our own minds on this serious decision. Good Luck to all.

[Rich Jenkins]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

I gave up a long time ago arguing with anti gun folks. I only hope they never have any reason to regret their decision or need to call the Police to protect them. We all have to make up our own minds on this serious decision. Good Luck to all.

Yes sir. I would never argue with a person's personal choices.

As far as extending life expectancy goes, there is a lot to be said for diet and exercise.

Beyond that, paying attention to one's surroundings is vital. I am glad many here are doing that.

In the words of advice from one of my favorite trainers, Mr. John Farnham, "Don't do stupid things in stupid places with stupid people."

Another excellent book, just for reference, is 'Left of Bang' by Patrick Van Horne. Great read about how to increase your situational awareness.

Left of Bang: How the Marine Corps' Combat Hunter Program Can Save Your Life

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1936891301..._xJAsybD2NJQDA

None of this requires a weapon.