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Old 06-05-2017, 06:28 PM   #1
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First Timer Asking for Input on Models :)

My husband and I are in our 30's, no kids, one labradoodle (35 lbs).

We finally realized that we can hit the road at will, since we can both work "from home" as long as there is Internet. Boondocking is a particularly enticing idea, as we don't exactly hate people, but are real introverts who enjoy nature and P&Q. We also love America (hey there, America) and want to see more of it, our own country, rather than spend all our dollars abroad.

We love flexibility, as on many of our trips we end up wanting to leave early or stay a day longer. We love seeing weird, beautiful, and interesting things on long car trips, and recently drove cross-country in our teenie weenie hatchback. So, we think we would love the trailer style.

We don't want an RV, as they seem to have more maintenance, and we'd like to unhitch and drive through national parks or to the grocery store with less drama than an RV entails.

We've looked at non-Airstreams online and now in person, and aren't feeling jazzed about anything but the classic AS brand. They just feel well made, and reliable, and beautiful, and a bit more trustworthy over time.

The pickle now is figuring out which one to choose...

The 16" sport felt claustrophobic, but the 23FB Cloud felt ginormous. The 22FB Sport felt just okay, but a little more closed in than the 23FB Cloud, maybe because the 23FB Cloud had brighter cabinet finishes.

We are driving 2 hours to a second dealership tomorrow to see a 19' Cloud, Cloud 23D, and re-see the Cloud 23FB tomorrow.

The thing is, we haven't found a way to rent an Airstream to test drive, so we don't quite know how to narrow it down.

The only thing I know I need for sure is a little breathing room in the bed area (the 16' would never work) and some counter space over the bathroom sink, which is ideally not the same as the kitchen sink.

This might not be enough information, and we are so very new to this world, but are beyond enchanted and have this feeling that it could be a lifelong love. We might even make it a part-time lifestyle, and just get a small house to call base camp locally part of the year.

So, New Internet Friends, I kindly invite you to donate all the advice you can. Thank you, and thank you again!

PS--We are only open to new trailers, so 2017 or 2018, because I'm not sleeping on a used mattress and I basically want to know where it's been and what happened to it. If it's going to get dirty or damaged, I'm the one who should do it.
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:34 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by RadioWagon View Post
PS--We are only open to new trailers, so 2017 or 2018, because I'm not sleeping on a used mattress and I basically want to know where it's been and what happened to it. If it's going to get dirty or damaged, I'm the one who should do it.
Just as an FYI on this part... many people have replaced even brand new mattresses with one they liked better. You could do the same with a used mattress. There are many valid reasons for buying a lightly used trailer.
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:34 PM   #3
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We are over twice your age (two humans, two dogs), but got a 2007 20' and loved it for 7 years. We got tired of the sideways bed that required crawling over the other person to get in or out of bed. In 2014 we got a new 25' rear twin and are completely happy with it. It seems like a McMansion compared to the 20' but we love having the space and the beds are great. And easy to make!

It's a very individual choice. Just spend a lot of time in the different models at the dealer and see which one feels best for you.

Good luck!!
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:38 PM   #4
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Welcome to Air Forums! You've come to the right place for all things Airstream.

I was confused when I read your post and you said you don't want and RV (Recreational Vehicle) but you want an Airstream. I suspect that means you don't want a motorhome, i.e. a driveable RV. Airstreams are RV's just a like a pop-up camper is an RV, an Airstream Interstate is an RV, etc.

There are many threads on the subject of choosing an Airstream. Search for them and you'll find lots of useful information to add to the responses you obtain here. In general it's a very personal decision and there is no right answer that fits everyone.

Most full-timers or people that find themselves traveling for extended periods probably have 23' - 30' trailers with the sweet spot being 25' and 27'. Don't overlook twin bed arrangements - they typically provide more access to exterior storage and provide a greater appearance of space on the interior. The hallway between twin beds make a very usable dressing area compared to the much smaller aisle on the side of a queen bed.

You're doing the right thing by visiting dealers. Go to Air Forums rallies, look around at RV shows. Don't be rushed to purchase. You can save quite a bit of money buying used and replacing the mattress(es) is no big problem.

Renting an Airstream is not inexpensive but I guess it's better than making a big mistake, particularly if you limit yourself to new purchases. Here's a place that has several rental locations http://airstream2go.com/

Best wishes.
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:42 PM   #5
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As you consider the 23s, may I suggest that you read completely through the two Forum threads dedicated to the two models of 23:

Here's the one for the 23D: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f142...ad-166085.html

And here for the 23FB: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f142...um-166374.html

The two 23s are actually quite different and each has its own devoted following... me, I'm a 23D man
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Old 06-05-2017, 06:46 PM   #6
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I think if you really want to be able to travel for long duration trips and fully live and work in the trailer, then any of the Bambi models are smaller than ideal.

Primarily due to water tank capacity for showering, dishwashing, and daily living.

Secondly due to overall more storage capacity in the 23 and longer trailers.

For long duration trips you will need to bring along tools, clothes, food, outdoor chairs, bicycles, BBQ items, and also you may need dual work spaces.

A twin bed 25 model would offer the ability to shut the partitions and give you each an "office", with one user at the dinette, and the other using a lap desk on one of the beds, or even a small table and chair in the bedroom aisle. But most of all you would have some semblance of acoustical separation for working, conference calls, and concentration.
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:18 PM   #7
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Hi

Take a careful look at the twin bed setups. Getting in and out of most of the single beds is a "two are involved" process. Also consider that the dog needs to be somewhere during this process.

Once you are into the main line of AS products, the price delta between models is not all that great. 23 to 25 is not a big jump. Buying one and trading it in for the "right" one in a year *is* a big chunk of money. Spend a lot of time in each of them. Work out how you will live / fit / operate in this one or that one.

Going up in size gets you more storage and more tank volume. Both are pretty important if you will be out in the middle of nowhere. No, the simple answer is *not* everybody needs a 33 foot Classic. The minor changes between 23 and 25 or 25 and 27 may make a difference to you.

Be careful to look at actual lengths on the various models. There are several that will fool you based on their names. They have to do *something* to give them names so it is understandable. Some are shorter than you would think and some are longer.

Given the cost of one, it's not terribly surprising that they are tough to rent. The insurance alone would be pretty costly to set up. The next best thing is to spend a day (or four) on dealers lots calmly checking them out.

Bob
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:46 PM   #8
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First off, welcome!

Secondly, where is Sutton California? I've googled and apple mapped it and can't find it.

We are also in our 30s with no kids and a smaller dog (beagle). We get out often for long weekends, but neither of us work from home presently.

We started with a 16', and as you have mentioned, it was really small. We decided to skip the next upgrade and went to a 25'. We might upgrade again if we ever retire and go full time, it for now this is a wonderful size for us.

I would take the above advise and look closely at the 25-27' trailers. They offer a good compromise of space (storage, tanks, etc.) to length. It's good that you're going to dealers to spend time in them, just be absolutely sure that you can make the space work for you. Upgrades can be expensive ��
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Old 06-05-2017, 08:47 PM   #9
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We have the 25FB and you walk around the bed with no climbing over. Dog sleeps at foot of bed on floor or in front of the oven. We went 25' because having a real bathroom separate from the shower is more important than you'd think. No matter what, make sure you get an outside shower as it lets you freshen up without using the grey tank.
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Old 06-05-2017, 11:59 PM   #10
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A FC 23 FB owner here. If it fits you, it is a great floor plan.

My concern for your planned use is home work space. I assume you are on a computer a bunch. The dinette could work, but most find it uncomfortable for extended periods of time. The East-West beds are not walk-arounds. There is not enough space on the sides. The configuration does help with making the bed, but some folks like twins for the center aisle access. We find climbing over to not be a problem, but you should give the concept of how it will work for you.

For full timing, I would not go smaller than the 23. Most would go 25 or the 26U and you will find the 27 quite popular.

Sit in all the models and figure out how you would use the coach, store stuff in it, and travel with it.

Start with the FC 20. It is a lot of coach. Then check the 22FB again. This is the travel sweet spot. Narrow and low helps a lot. Then check out the 23FB (no need to look at the 23D unless the 20 is interesting). Now step up to the 25. It has been the favorite for many. Several choices in layout and worth checking each of them. The 26U is different and hits a tone for some folks. The 27 is the next step and may be the point to shift into a used solution as a cost saver. We think some 27s are being traded for 30's. Worth looking if you decide to go big.

The latest 23FBs have 15in tires, 12in brakes, upgrades cushion foam and ducted AC. These upgrades make it a nice small coach. Use it as the bench mark to compare others. The bigger rigs may be necessary for your intended purpose, but maybe the 23 will work for you. Spend a lot of time in each model. You will figure it out.

Spend some time on the Colonial web site looking through their videos.
Spend some time viewing other AS videos. Long, Long, Honeymoon videos are good. There are some full time working on the road folks who make videos too.

Research until your eyes go blurry. The more you learn the better decisions you will make.

Now, an AS is not a four season trailer. The insulation does not stop the heat transfer provided by the ribs. Therefore plan to follow the seasons. Also, the appliances are the same as SOBs. The difference is the shell and the trim. Look under the drawers at how the furniture is installed before you make your final decision. You might use the acceptance check list to review coach condition as part of your investigation. Would not start with that, but would do it before you pick a coach.

Budget money for upgrades. Solar, bigger batteries, some storage, and a better mattress are likely in the first two years.

Hope to see you down the road. Pat
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Old 06-06-2017, 12:10 AM   #11
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I full-timed for 2.5 years and LOVED it! You have some fun times ahead. I also knew NOTHING about RVs when I started, and by that I mean when I hit the road. I learned as I went.

I cracked up when I read your post, and nvestysly already pointed this out, but an Airstream is indeed an RV.

: )

There are many types of RVs.

Enjoy your shopping, go for your new mattress, but consider vintage--it's too cool not to! I just bought a 1962 Airstream and am thrilled. I have a photo of President Kennedy stepping out of my exact model.

But if I could afford a new one I'd be thrilled too.
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Old 06-06-2017, 02:14 AM   #12
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Right there with you! We are heading to Colonial this weekend to spend a few hours sitting in various models. We want a 23D it's narrow body and size for maximizing campground options and we want a 27FB for the flexibility of space and longer term living. And we love the 25FB because it strikes a balance between the two!! Choices choices choices. We've learned a lot from watching the Colonial Airstream videos and Loloho as well. Good luck!
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Old 06-06-2017, 04:28 AM   #13
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My wife and I have a 2017 Flying Cloud 25'FB Twin. We are retired and love to spend time with our grandkids. Like you we found the 16' to be to small, the 25' is just right for us.
What you said about sleeping on a used mattress reminds me of a conversation my wife and I had when we first starting talking about RV's.
She said we can't afford a new one, I said ok we will buy a used one.
She then said "I am not sleeping on some mattress someone else has been sleeping on". I then said "ok we will continue to rent a hotel room."
Like SeaLevel said.......you can buy a new mattess.
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Old 06-06-2017, 04:52 AM   #14
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My advice? Buy the biggest one you can afford and tow. Many people fall into the trap of thinking smaller is better only to upgrade later on at significant expense.

Sure, smaller trailers work for some people, but no one ever complained of having extra space on a very hot or rainy day. My wife and I learned that lesson while boating, and 1 year ago decided to get into RVing. Never had towed anything before. Got a 30' and we don't regret it one little bit. At least go take a look at them before you make up your mind.

Good luck!
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Old 06-06-2017, 07:14 AM   #15
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My advice? Buy the biggest one you can afford and tow. Many people fall into the trap of thinking smaller is better only to upgrade later on at significant expense.

<< snip>>

Good luck!
My opinion too
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:11 AM   #16
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Thanks, thanks, thanks a million! To everyone!

I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't use the right lingo, but definitely got turned around on some of the "101" websites. I'm going to work on getting it all right, step by step.

The advice on size is helpful, but particularly the advice on spending time in the models and--most of all--really analyzing whether the bed layout works. The bed was the final decision maker for me that the 16' Sport would be more nightmare than dream. I also get kind of nervous dealing with salespeople, but this gives me more confidence to really make myself at home for a bit. It's a lot of money, after all! If I spend forever just trying on jeans, I need to nut up and not be afraid to spend time in something this important.

Also, on beds... I think twin beds might be the ticket. We both move a lot in our sleep, and the dog is always up and down and in and out of bed. Though twins aren't as snuggly, the actual rest factor could go way up. When it comes to crawling over, we might be too old for that ___. My husband and I have very different sleep schedules, so this could be vital.

The only thing is, twins only start in the 25' foot models. We thought the 23' cloud felt huge yesterday, but we'll see how it feels again today at the second dealership now that we have more perspective. It's helpful to hear that we should think carefully about how each individual layout feels more than get hung up on the footage, and really consider what it would be like to be more or less trapped inside on terribly hot or monsoon days.

So, here's my really big question about trailers in general, esp. if we fall in love with a 25' twin bed model... How do you learn to drive these safely and comfortably? We are literally at ground zero. As in, we have been driving a cute little VW hatchback for years, sharing one car and being fine with it.

Because ours is the "bad" VW diesel, we are going to trade it in by early next year for a buyback, which is part of what makes the next six months a good time to transition into Airstream mode. We can upgrade to a truck for very little money, since we basically get the money back for almost the full value of our turbo-polluting VW diesel.

I have never driven a truck, much less pulled a trailer. How do you learn? How do you get used to it?

PS, I have a little anxiety boost about the driving element because I test drove a Vespa a few years ago on a whim, and got in an accident after 10 minutes. Before I was handed the keys, I told the dealer again and again that it was my first time and I didn't know what I was doing, and he said it was fine and sent me out anyway. I wasn't hurt badly, but it put that kind of deep fear in me. I'm sure Airstreams are much safer and easier to operate than I'm afraid they are, since all my life I've personally known lots of people who were hurt or killed in bike accidents, but RV's don't really have the danger rep. I just want to make sure we do it right this time, rather than have someone who just wants our money say it's easy and hand us the keys.

Thanks again, to all!

PS, we are located in the Southeast, I just haven't done a forum before and wanted to get comfortable before I put all our real stats on. It looks like people do get together from here, though, and I'm sure we'd love to network once we're really in the clan. It seems like a very cool world, and as I know I'll miss friends the second we hit the road, it would be great to make new ones as we go.
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:24 AM   #17
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You're going about it the right way. Find the AS that fits your style best, then find the tow vehicle that works best for how and where you plan to go, and that works as a daily driver, since you mentioned wanting to unhitch and see the sights. Along with that comes getting the correct hitch setup. Once you do all that right, you will find that it's a very stable feeling combination, and you'll just need to learn how to tow, which can come with practice or by taking a course - or both. It's not hard. I was new to it also and it didn't take long to get comfortable with it. There are lots of good videos on YouTube.
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:00 AM   #18
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< snip > Then check out the 23FB (no need to look at the 23D unless the 20 is interesting). < snip >
May I respectfully disagree (hey, aren't we all ardent advocates of whatever 'perfect' Airstream we happen to have? )?

When we were doing what passed for "Airstream shopping," we looked at both the 20 and the 23D. We found the 'pull out' lounge sofa that makes a bed (that would be "my bed"), to be super easy... much easier than the dinette-to-bed conversion of the 20-footer. And, once the lounge sofa was converted to a bed, we still had the utility of part of the dinette table.

Also, we found the 23D to be much more 'open' and 'brighter' than the 20, and much more conducive to 'entertaining' when friends drop by... scrunching around a dinette isn't our idea of comfortable, and pleasant visiting... for a serious game of Scrabble, it's perfect though... oh, we can do that in the 23D, too.

Also, the 23D has a larger refrigerator... and TWO wardrobes (I thought they were 'closets')... where is the microwave in the 20-footer?

OK, enough of my irritating defensiveness!

PS: Here's how I easily make my bed: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f46/...3d-158474.html
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:02 AM   #19
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Towing - it is a skill. It is not as simple as driving a car. So you are correct to be concerned and take care in your approach. There are schools just like for motorcycle riding. Look under commercial driving schools.

When my brother decided to get a trailer, he talked to his trusted U-haul guy. Not a recommendation that most would consider, but he has a good one. The fellow told him. "Get a truck. Longer wheel base is better than shorter. Drive slower rather than faster. That is safer. Get a weight distribution hitch. You will need it." He had driven an old pickup truck for years, so no learning curve there. Everything else was new. The key ..... go slow! Your problem is that it will all be new.

Thought - you might be best served to buy a small SOB (some other brand). A Casita or similar comes to mind. Lower cost, easier to handle and good resale. A year or two of learning and then move up after you have a better idea. It's like learning to ride a motorcycle. Folks used to learn on little ones. Now they buy a big one and get hurt. It can be done, but may not be best approach.

Using a rental trailer like the type you use to move furniture can be a good way to practice towing. Big empty parking lots are the place to practice. Abandoned might be good. However the school may be your best place to start since you don't have a tow vehicle or trailer.

You really need to know more than the sales person to make the right decisions, so keep reading and viewing. Not everything you read will be correct, so verify all before you believe it. Towing is not terrible difficult. However it takes concentration, attention to a lot of details and attentive driving all the time. You need both hands on the wheel and both eyes on the road. Do your sight seeing on your hikes. Drive as a team. One navigates and the other drives. Miss a turn and come back rather than doing an unsafe lane change. You can do it. Lots of folks do it.

You should look at the Interstate. It may be a better option for you. You say you do not want a Motorhome, but accept the possibility that you are still learning.

The key here is to make a choice that works for you. Good luck. Pat
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:09 AM   #20
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< snip >

Thought - you might be best served to buy a small SOB (some other brand). A Casita or similar comes to mind. Lower cost, easier to handle and good resale. A year or two of learning and then move up after you have a better idea. < snip >
Now, THERE'S a great suggestion! If you could be lucky enough to find a nice relatively late model Casita in great condition, and you could "buy it right," it just might be a "free trailer' ... being able to sell it for essentially what you paid for it even after a year of livin' and learnin'
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