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Old 06-07-2017, 11:30 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by RadioWagon View Post
Update!

Now we're delving into:

-- What kind of towing vehicle we need.

RadioWagon
I think you'll find far more varying opinions regarding the tow vehicle than you did with the Airstream.

Might I suggest considering when looking at tow vehicles:

MAX PAYLOAD is an extremely important variable to consider. There are many vehicles that have adequate power to pull a trailer. But if you want to actually haul anything along with you (generator, bicycles, kayaks, tools, etc - the list goes on and on), you will very quickly run out of payload unless you have a 3/4 ton truck.

I have a RAM 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi, and it will pull my 23D all day long without a single problem. But the max payload is depressingly low - something like 1,300 pounds. By the time I hitch up the trailer (700 pounds tongue weight), add a few lawn chairs, ice chest, bicycles, a passenger, and myself - I've maxed out my payload on this truck.

Regarding payload: the more options your truck has (heated and ventilated seats, power seats, power rear window, etc), the lower the payload will be because each of those options has a motor something that weighs something and decreases your payload. So choose options wisely.

Regarding the 23D - sounds like you've already decided on the 25 Twin model, but just in case you're still wondering about the 23D - I find that the bathroom is the single thing about my 23D that I wish was different; It's just too small.

If I had it all to do over again (and I do, because why not?) I'd get a Ford F250 diesel extended cab with very few options and a 25 twin AS. Not because you need an F250 to tow a 25 footer, but because I want to take lots of stuff with me and I need the extra payload capacity.

Good luck.
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Old 06-07-2017, 02:32 PM   #42
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Just a note - the weights listed in the AS specs are limited to the standard configuration and dry tanks. They include full LPG tanks, but nothing else.

So expect the tongue weight to grow as you load your coach for daily living and travel. With full fresh water, a load of gear, and a WDSC hitch, a 25 may well have a 1000 lb tongue weight, maybe a bit more. This weight becomes tow vehicle payload, which is why folks are suggesting payload capacity is an important consideration. You address the issue with TV capacity or load out restraint.

Enjoy the process. Pat
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Old 06-08-2017, 06:19 AM   #43
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Hi

Since we now seem to have moved on to payload ...

The only real number to trust for payload is the number on the sticker on the truck you buy. The standard printed flyers all are based on a "no options" number. If you ever see such a truck on the lot, grab a picture, you found a *rare* item One way to address this is to special order a truck (or SUV) with just the options you need and none of the "fluff". Drop the 4WD, dump the moon roof, don't get the power seats, take off the power running boards, and you save quite a bit of weight.

Another option is to limit what you haul along with you. Yes, that's just as tough as deciding you won't have a moon roof. Take a hard look at this and that, make decisions. Weight things and add it up. Make more decisions.

It is probably a good idea to have a little wiggle room in whatever numbers you come up with. You don't really want to go through the weigh scales on every trip. How much room depends on how consistent you are in how you pack.

The full set of numbers to watch are:

The combined weight of the tow vehicle, the trailer, and every thing in both of them. (GCWR).

Tow capacity of the tow vehicle (the thing everybody looks at).

Payload of the tow vehicle (what we are talking about now).

Front axle weight

Rear axle weight

Derating of all the above with altitude. (will you be in the mountains?)

It's all stuff that drops into a spread sheet pretty easily. The only real gotcha is the one I started out with. You really don't know the weight of the specific vehicle you are buying without checking the sticker on it (or taking it to a scale). That drives the payload numbers and impacts axle and GCWR numbers.

Anything you buy as a tow vehicle should come with an dealer option for a tow package. If possible, you want a hitch, a 7 way connector and a trailer brake controller. All can be installed after the fact. Often buying them as a package gets you some tweaks here and there in addition to the connector or controller.

One thing I would *not* add on a custom order TV is the built in NAV system. None of them are very RV specific. (Why have a truck NAV that does not understand truck lanes ... yikes !!) Get one from your favorite supplier (I happen to be a Garmin fan). You will be much happier. (You will not be totally happy, all of them have various subtle bugs ...)

Lots of fun !!!

Bob
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Old 06-08-2017, 10:14 AM   #44
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-- snip -- I would *not* add on a custom order TV is the built in NAV system.
While we are Garmin fans too, the non-built-in screen is problematic. It is just one more thing to manage. An integrated navigation unit transmits information to the heads up display. That is very helpful in keeping eyes on the road in critical traffic situations. We really like the integrated systems.

As the electronics get better, the integration of third party devices, specifically smart phones, improves. The navigation provided by a smart phone works reasonably well, but may not be transmitted to the HUD. My guess is that manufacturers who respect the needs of customers will continue to integrate function and that should be helpful.

The use of two devices can help to get more and better information, but it does take a bit of care to not be confused and is safer with both a driver and navigator partnership in play.

You can function well with a third party system. It can be a cost saver and represents one of those pesky compromises that we consider in the process of configuring our rigs.

Enjoy the process. Pat
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Old 06-08-2017, 11:21 AM   #45
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I went through this recently and ended up with the F250 custom order for all these payload reasons. If you are thinking Ford, I put together a spreadsheet showing payload for a given option set.
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Old 06-08-2017, 01:46 PM   #46
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What rlhendren and uncle_bob said regarding payload is right on. Research and understand payload and estimate what you might be putting in a truck or SUV that adds to the weight - things like a generator+fuel, BBQ s, chairs, etc as well as the two of you and your dog and tongue weight minus what the weight distribution hitch moves back to the trailer. Then when you look at the door sticker you will know if the vehicle will work for you.

BTW, we have a 23D that we love but figure in a year or two we will need to move to a 25 to 28 footer.

Have fun.
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:18 PM   #47
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First Timer Asking for Input on Models :)

Radio-

As it sounds like y'all are going to full or at least 3/4 time in your Airstream, and love the 25fb twin......

I strongly recommend looking at a 27fb twin if you can. We absolutely love the fb twin, and the 27 (really 28' long) is a stretch of your favorite. It gets you a double door wardrobe, a bigger pantry, longer kitchen counter, and a foot of clear space at the foot of the beds. I think you'll cherish the extra room as we do when it's nasty outside......

Also, we're finishing up 10 nights at 4 different Alabama and Georgia state parks, with absolutely no site selection problems at 28' long.

Anyway, I know everyone loves what they own, but I hope this helps.
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Old 06-08-2017, 02:49 PM   #48
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Re: Weight... You guys are like Rocket Scientists. For reals. BIG thanks.

We're busy researching Internet access and other logistics issues now, which brings me to a big and pressing question: A home base.

Basically, paying for a house we don't live in much isn't appealing. But we would function better if there was a still, fixed point with a one-room house where we could stop awhile if we want (and have a clear legal address).

We're intrigued by some of these little RV neighborhoods I've heard fairytales about, but they are a dickens to find online, and it's confusing figuring out if they apply to us and our class of AS.

Ideally, we'd have a little plot of land somewhere, with a small (maybe 300 square feet? less?) "Florida room," "Carolina room," "casita," whatever-we-call-it that has a few basic living amenities, can store out of season clothes, host the handful of guests we reveal our secret location to, and catch our breath a bit so we don't get road weary.

The trick is, how does one find these places? I found one called Juno Ocean Walk in Juno Beach, Florida, but lots there are tiny and seem to start at $99k (What!!). I have found others, but they only allow Class A vehicles and are pretty snobby about it to boot. Those puppies start at $250k.

Is finding a little RV neighborhood that isn't a dump even feasible (aka, nice people there by choice vs. meth labs all in a row), or do we have to buy land somewhere and start from scratch? Then you get into all kinds of woes with land permits and whether having a trailer on it is allowed.

If anyone could even give me suggestions for the best terms to search by, that would be helpful, as I can't seem to lock down a single terminology set that applies to what I'm looking for. If it even exists. It seems like many of these spots are real, but maybe don't know how to make websites.

I close my eyes, and think of a mountain or lake in the living room, and I remember why, and it's all okay.
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Old 06-08-2017, 04:10 PM   #49
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... 30 mins after writing the last post: Is this why people who full-time it don't have base camp, Florida room style residences? I always thought it was purely a financial choice, but maybe it's largely also logistics. You get a storage unit, call your parents' address yours, and live every/nowhere.
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Old 06-08-2017, 05:55 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by RadioWagon View Post
My husband and I are in our 30's, no kids, one labradoodle (35 lbs).



We finally realized that we can hit the road at will, since we can both work "from home" as long as there is Internet. Boondocking is a particularly enticing idea, as we don't exactly hate people, but are real introverts who enjoy nature and P&Q. We also love America (hey there, America) and want to see more of it, our own country, rather than spend all our dollars abroad.



We love flexibility, as on many of our trips we end up wanting to leave early or stay a day longer. We love seeing weird, beautiful, and interesting things on long car trips, and recently drove cross-country in our teenie weenie hatchback. So, we think we would love the trailer style.



We don't want an RV, as they seem to have more maintenance, and we'd like to unhitch and drive through national parks or to the grocery store with less drama than an RV entails.



We've looked at non-Airstreams online and now in person, and aren't feeling jazzed about anything but the classic AS brand. They just feel well made, and reliable, and beautiful, and a bit more trustworthy over time.



The pickle now is figuring out which one to choose...



The 16" sport felt claustrophobic, but the 23FB Cloud felt ginormous. The 22FB Sport felt just okay, but a little more closed in than the 23FB Cloud, maybe because the 23FB Cloud had brighter cabinet finishes.



We are driving 2 hours to a second dealership tomorrow to see a 19' Cloud, Cloud 23D, and re-see the Cloud 23FB tomorrow.



The thing is, we haven't found a way to rent an Airstream to test drive, so we don't quite know how to narrow it down.



The only thing I know I need for sure is a little breathing room in the bed area (the 16' would never work) and some counter space over the bathroom sink, which is ideally not the same as the kitchen sink.



This might not be enough information, and we are so very new to this world, but are beyond enchanted and have this feeling that it could be a lifelong love. We might even make it a part-time lifestyle, and just get a small house to call base camp locally part of the year.



So, New Internet Friends, I kindly invite you to donate all the advice you can. Thank you, and thank you again!



PS--We are only open to new trailers, so 2017 or 2018, because I'm not sleeping on a used mattress and I basically want to know where it's been and what happened to it. If it's going to get dirty or damaged, I'm the one who should do it.


You can always buy new mattress, you know. In fact, I replaced the factory mattress on our new FC with a 10" memory foam (which I trimmed to fit the curved corner with a saws-all). Pure comfortable bliss.
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Old 06-08-2017, 07:44 PM   #51
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Look for "RV resorts". You can but properties with just a pad to park the AS, with a storage unit/garage, with a 1 bedroom cottage, or a 3000 sq foot house. All sorts of favors to suit your taste and budget.
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Old 06-09-2017, 07:18 AM   #52
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Hi

Address wise, there are compelling reasons to pick one state over another for taxes. Having an address in Pennsylvania is not very convenient (regardless of the tax issues) if you never ever go there. Location does indeed matter.

Some sort of large storage locker seems like a reasonable thing to have. Do you need more than that? Only you can make that call. Will the storage guy also supply you an address and mail handling? (some will, some will not). There are a lot of places that will do the "here's an address for your mail" part of it.

How does this all fit in with various laws? Only a lawyer can answer that. Boaters have the same problems. There are a few states where they run into issues if they hang around to long. I've never heard of states going after RV people.

Bob
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:06 AM   #53
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So, after hours and hours (and hours) of research, I think what we might do is take the advice of those who thought a cheaper Casita (or the like) might be a good starter trailer. We're investigating now whether it's legal to park it in our driveway, since we have just enough space for a baby sized one. If it's allowed, that would buy us a lot of time on the bigger "base camp / home base" investigation. We could see some of these RV residences in person, and figure out our ideal launch point, and maybe look at land for a really small house.

Thanks for advice on being open to used trailers in general and just getting a new mattress. I didn't think this was possible because the mattresses are all such weird shapes and sizes, but y'all are right--you can get one from Costco/Ikea and saw it down. Everything else I can ammonia within an inch of its life, because.

Starting with a baby-sized non-AS trailer lets us really try things on for size, without making a fundamental and expensive leap that we could regret four weeks in. It lets us explore an investigate our wants, preferences, and needs in the real world, so we can figure out what we actually want and then spend the big trailer money smart.

We'll probably get a bigger truck soon that can handle the 25' trailer in the long term, and investigate the best way to buy a baby RV in the next few months. Super bonus is that we can really road test the internet thing, since husband's job sucks up G's like a Hoover, without putting his career on the line. If it doesn't work, he can take a vacation day, and the world does not end. If it does, we can keep moving toward a bigger transition.

Thanks to everyone for being such a big part of a big journey already--your advice and kind words have been invaluable. I look forward to getting to know y'all better as we go!
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:50 AM   #54
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... And oh my dear sweet lord, Casitas are covered in carpet, wall and ceiling. I don't think I can do it. Not new, not used. That doesn't mean I can't do another non-AS, it just means I would do anything for love, but I won't do wall and ceiling carpet.
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Old 06-09-2017, 11:29 PM   #55
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My wife and I just took the plunge on a new AS and we are both in our early 30's too. We both work off laptops.

- After heavily modifying our new Land Yacht for our 1.5YO, I would start right off with quality; you buy an Airstream because they are just downright cool, not because they are any more reliable than other high-end trailers. There's also no "quality" difference between a 19' Flying Cloud and 33' Classic - the classic just has nicer finishes. Make sure to heavily inspect the trailer you buy because a Classic is just as likely to have blemishes or mechanical issues from the factory as a FC.

- For full-timing, buy the most practical/functional and biggest (in that order) floorpan you can afford, THEN identify the best tow vehicle for that trailer. A little more money now will look like pocket change if you have to upsize in the near future.

- An AS up to 27' is fine for an F150 (1/2 ton), anything above get a F250(3/4 ton). Our Land Yacht was on the cusp as it's an overweight 27FB. We had a Land Cruiser but quickly realized an F250 would remove any anxiousness for both drivers (hence why I say choose the trailer first). You can also carry a bunch more stuff in a 3/4 ton.

- Don't be anxious about driving a trailer. Take your time and practice with it in town; parking lots, gas stations, residential streets. Freeways are much easier. I'm still a newbie but the best advice I got was to keep thinking "size and weight". For size, just imagine your tow vehicle is 2' wider on either side than it really is when towing (because it actually is). Be aware of clearances: Pull under a couple things to get a little perspective on how high you are and pay attention to signs. Airstreams are also lower to the ground so pay attention to larger dips/rises in parking lots or gas stations. For weight just pretend you have really crappy brakesto train yourself to allocate more space. Lastly, take.your.time. If you feel uncomfortable slow down or pull off. Best part about this journey is you're on your own schedule and happen to be pulling a bed behind you

- If you want to do lots of boon docking add 2-20K for solar/gen on top of the trailer. 2K if you are a good DIYer and just want to power electronics or up to 20K if you want lewster to blow your mind and run your AC off the sun

- The best internet solution I could find is a directional or omnidirectional (Surecall) antenna to a Wilson 4G data only booster to a PepWave mobile router. It will receive data from both ATT and Verizon depending on who's the strongest or you can setup rules based on data limits, etc.. I'm shocked no one here recommended this setup when I was researching but it blows the doors off the frequently recommended weeboost system if you really need reliable internet.
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:19 AM   #56
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Hi

Around here, outdoor storage in a secure lot (as in barbed wire / cameras / gate cards) is $25 a month. Indoor storage is $100 a month. Less security intensive lots are cheaper. There is a benefit in any climate to storing indoors. It's an even bigger plus in snow land. Our driveway is (barely) long enough for the truck. It also slopes. We went past the "trailer in the driveway" stage when we moved here. The prior drive was 150' downhill, also a bit of an issue for backing a trailer in ....

Bob
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:39 AM   #57
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Hi there,
We had the advantage to have a Class C RV before we went with the Airstream so we knew what was really important, kind of important, and not important. As I recall the most important thing was that we have a walk around bed. That by itself narrowed our choices down quite a bit. The 27FB was it for us so we played a waiting game until one came on the used market. We don't full time but our longest outing was nine weeks and we were very comfortable. I did noticed that you you liked the 66" luonge and as a matter of fact we will be making a mod soon to add a cabinet just under the TV. We just never use that whole area. Another thing that I don't think was mentioned is the shower. Hopefully you have stood in it and turned around a few times. You need to be ok with it. I need to sit down and use the sprayer which is ok but not what I like.

As far as towing I would rent a truck and trailer at Uhaul and drive it around for a day. You will get a lot of needed experience. I always thought backing the AS is easier than those Uhaul trailers for some reason. When you do pull the trigger on a TV be sure that you have a tow vehicle that can do the job. Don't get something that "should be ok".

Try a week in a rental RV. (without slides) You will learn a lot.

Lot of good advice on this thread. We have been very happy with our Airstream and have no intention to get anything else. I will say that if we were looking today we would be considering the 28U. Just saying.

Good luck.
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Old 06-10-2017, 05:36 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by RadioWagon View Post
... And oh my dear sweet lord, Casitas are covered in carpet, wall and ceiling. I don't think I can do it. Not new, not used. That doesn't mean I can't do another non-AS, it just means I would do anything for love, but I won't do wall and ceiling carpet.
Have you dropped out of this discussion?

Thanks
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Old 06-10-2017, 06:40 PM   #59
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Have you dropped out of this discussion?

Thanks
Hi

I think they are still in carpet shock ...

Bob
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Old 06-12-2017, 03:13 PM   #60
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Re: The Casita Discussion... Yes. Still in shock over the carpet. There is no emoticon adequate enough to display the shock.

We have done lots, and lots, and lots of investigation since I last posted. We are going truck shopping tonight, just to get a feel for the truck thing. Toe in the water.

I called the RV dealership we liked, and talked to the sales guy we first met there, and he said that any new RV is going to depreciate. I said we were open to used, and he sent me some photos of a used 2017 Winnebago Micro Minnie 2106DS. It’s actually pretty cute. He said the owners used it twice, then bought a 25’ Airstream. So, basically, they’re a lot like us! He didn’t include the price in the initial email, so I asked. He said it’s clean and doesn’t smell like anything. I believe the MSRP was about $25k, and with taxes this one would be $17k.

We’d like to go look at it, but the round trip drive is 3 hours, so that’s a thing. Should we go look at it? Is this a potential good fit and good deal? I think so, but I’m new to sales with wheels.

I’m not going to get excited about this particular unit, but I do like the look of it as a starter so we can field test the Internet and start the weekend warrior thing.

One of the attractions of buying new is that I feel like it’s easier to determine the price and true condition, but I think used has so much potential for what we want to do—get our feet wet in this wonderful world of RVs, with the long game plan of becoming full timers in our true trailer of choice.

When buying used, though, how do you know what you’re really looking at? How do you know if it will be a good RV to flip in a year or two? (I mean, I have a brain and everything, but buying or selling anything on wheels always has a particular dark magic about it. I was never hurt by asking a question!)

I want to bake you all cake for sharing your stories and thoughts and being so helpful. There is no way to thank you enough. So, for now, here is some psychic-thought cake, from me to you. There is a gluten free version for those who need it. Mmm! Tasty!
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