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Old 05-11-2012, 03:26 PM   #99
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You obviously have never ever been in a situation where your life changes in less than 3 seconds. I can not find the words to respond to you politely, so I will just let you continue to live in you imaginary world.
mojo, it was blatantly obvious to me (and others) that "Friday" was in law enforcement. You did not glean that without further inquiry.

What bothers me is that reactionary "shoot first, ask questions later" mindset. Figuratively....and literally.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:43 PM   #100
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On a Lighter Note.....eh????

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As for violence in Canada; it occurrs at the same rate as in the US. They just use fists, feet, sticks of wood, hatchets, etc.
And don't forget those potato peelers and stale Timbits. When loaded into a slingshot, the latter is a more-than-adequate weapon. Works really well on those annoying Canada geese that like to defecate on our gardens, parks, beaches, or worse....fly into the engine of a passenger jet.

That's why my friend carries this kind of "heat" when he's flying. I'm sure he could successfully ditch on the Fraser River....but he'd rather not.

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Old 05-11-2012, 03:53 PM   #101
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We were recently stopped, questioned, and searched by the Illinois State Police. They were definitely looking for guns and drugs. Lots of questions (separately) about where we were going an why. What I did for a living...

After I told the officer that we didn't have any weapons on board he asked in I owned any guns. When I responded with yes, he asked for the address where they were located.

When they completed the vehicle search with the 2 of us and dog sitting on the side of the interstate I was told that the reason they stopped us was for following to close. I was given a warning and we were released.

I since been told that if they had found a gun in the vehicle that I would have gone to jail in Illinois.

So the next time you see some innocent looking couple and their dog sitting along the road with the cops going through their vehicle, call the ACLU.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:57 PM   #102
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We were recently stopped, questioned, and searched by the Illinois State Police. They were definitely looking for guns and drugs. Lots of questions (separately) about where we were going an why. What I did for a living...

After I told the officer that we didn't have any weapons on board he asked in I owned any guns. When I responded with yes, he asked for the address where they were located.

When they completed the vehicle search with the 2 of us and dog sitting on the side of the interstate I was told that the reason they stopped us was for follofing to close. I was given a warning and we were released.

I since been told that if they had found a gun in the vehicle that I would have gone to jail in Illinois.
That is a sad "state" of affairs.

The main reason Illinois will never see any of my tourist money.

Btw, none of his business what you have at home.



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Old 05-11-2012, 04:56 PM   #103
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It's the same reason for carrying a fire extinguisher.
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Originally Posted by mojo View Post
This is all speculation. The point is that your statement that:

"how could a person be so unaware of their surroundings that they'd be a victim" and, if that person was so unaware, would a gun, bat, or whatever really have changed the outcome?

is a poor assessment and the fact that it is being made by a law enforcement officer is truly amazing.

I don't think anyone here has brought up the topic of saving the world. Where many of us travel there is no phone service, 911, or law enforcement. It is about being prepared.
You're missing my point... what I am saying is, if someone is unaware of a developing situation, adding a weapon to their side of the equation isn't necessarily going to change things. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. You kind of lopped off the important part of that quote (which I've added back in bold above).

I guess you need to decide what problem you are trying to solve, and evaluate the options. "I don't feel safe" might be the problem. OK... what would make you feel safer?

I've been a cop for almost 10 years... I've been to countless home alarms. I've never, ever, been to a house alarm that was a B&E. All false alarms. This is not a rare thing by the way (business alarms are different... maybe 10% are actual B&E's).

But, last year my aging folks wanted to get an alarm for their house. I told them it was an expense that didn't really pay off... 10 years of monitored alarms is $6000. Even if you get robbed every year you'll save money just using insurance.

But, other people scared them into thinking they weren't safe. So, they got the alarm. Now, they dutifully close all the windows and doors at night so the alarm doesn't chirp at them when they try arm it. Maybe they feel safer, but what have they replaced by getting an alarm? They've given up a feeling that their neighbours are looking out for them, that the people that know them wouldn't steal from them, that every chirp from the alarm mean someone is likely waiting to murder them in the kitchen.

AND, they PAY for this peace of mind.

Buy a gun, carry a gun, hide a gun... some people have more choice in that area than others. But, just recognize the trade-off as an individual, and the collective trade-off as a society that comes with that choice.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:08 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
We were recently stopped, questioned, and searched by the Illinois State Police. They were definitely looking for guns and drugs. Lots of questions (separately) about where we were going an why. What I did for a living...

After I told the officer that we didn't have any weapons on board he asked in I owned any guns. When I responded with yes, he asked for the address where they were located.

When they completed the vehicle search with the 2 of us and dog sitting on the side of the interstate I was told that the reason they stopped us was for following to close. I was given a warning and we were released.

I since been told that if they had found a gun in the vehicle that I would have gone to jail in Illinois.

So the next time you see some innocent looking couple and their dog sitting along the road with the cops going through their vehicle, call the ACLU.
This is a good example of people not knowing their rights, or knowing them and not asserting them. Did they ask to search your vehicle? Did you consent to the search? I'm thinking there must have been some dialogue there, as every police officer knows there is no right to search a vehicle unless it is incidental to arrest. Were you arrested?

Why didn't YOU call the ACLU? Why didn't you stop them from searching your vehicle? I'm going to throw it out there, that you weren't prepared for this situation. You know, or you think you know, your rights - and now that it's done you want people to "call the ACLU". But, you were a sheep.

This isn't a knock against you, or anyone else... but like I've said before, there is a mentality that has to go along with responding to a threat... and very, very rarely does an untrained person go to the proper use-of-force response... because the shock to the senses is overwhelming.

Perhaps these officers used that authority... maybe you don't even remember them asking to check your car, or your mind was in the "what choice do I have" mode because you were overloaded...

I've been debriefed in critical incidents... and it is a real fight to keep the tunnel-vision from setting in when you are stressed...

I don't know Illinois law, but I imagine transporting a properly secured firearm is lawful... a hand gun under the seat, probably not...
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:12 PM   #105
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That is a sad "state" of affairs.

The main reason Illinois will never see any of my tourist money.

Btw, none of his business what you have at home.



Shane
The requirements of any person stopped during a vehicle stop are to identify themselves and provide proof they are licensed to drive, and that the vehicle is insured. Police can ask whatever questions they want. You don't have to answer any of them.

But... be wary that the silent treatment is certainly your right, but the motives for the questions might not be what you think. The more someone talks, the better idea an officer can detect if they are drunk, high, or nervous for some other reason... Some polite chit-chat is certainly your option... but if you think the officer 'cares' about any of your answers, you're mistaken. (unless you say "well yes, I actually left my Glock under a key of coke in the trunk")
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:46 PM   #106
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Sorry Friday, but you are missing my point. And here is your original quote:

"My own opinion and experience is that people need to be situationally aware. The example of someone being car-jacked, kidnapped, and robbed brings up two thoughts... how could a person be so unaware of their surroundings that they'd be a victim... and, if that person was so unaware, would a gun, bat, or whatever really have changed the outcome?"

Two thoughts here.
#1) The only thing that scares me is that a law officer would make the statement "how could a person be so unaware of their surroundings that they'd be a victim." Well it happens all the time. This shows a total lack of understanding or empathy for what a victim of a violent crime experiences.

#2)"if that person was so unaware, would a gun, bat, or whatever really have changed the outcome?" We'll never know, since I was unarmed or prepared the first time. But after training in defensive handgun tactics, threat management and legal use of deadly force, if it should happen again, the situation could be different.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:31 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
We were recently stopped, questioned, and searched by the Illinois State Police. They were definitely looking for guns and drugs. Lots of questions (separately) about where we were going an why. What I did for a living...

After I told the officer that we didn't have any weapons on board he asked in I owned any guns. When I responded with yes, he asked for the address where they were located.

When they completed the vehicle search with the 2 of us and dog sitting on the side of the interstate I was told that the reason they stopped us was for following to close. I was given a warning and we were released.

I since been told that if they had found a gun in the vehicle that I would have gone to jail in Illinois.

So the next time you see some innocent looking couple and their dog sitting along the road with the cops going through their vehicle, call the ACLU.
It's true that Illinois sucks on this topic, but you would not have gone to jail. You must have met Barnie...

1) There is still a lot of legal fuzziness about a motorhome being your home and not a vehicle. STOP! I know both side of the arguement, but a rookie public defender would have had you out in 15 minutes.

2) It is legal in Illinois to transport handguns...they just can't be accessible. That MAY mean out of possible reach...and it may mean unloaded and "in a case". It's also "fuzzy".

3) Don't confuse Illinois with "The People's Republic of Chicago". Rules are VERY different in Cook County.....STILL even after the DC Supreme court case....(which I don't get...how Chi gets away with not adhering to a SUPREME COURT RULING!!!!!)

Anyway, you apparently met a rogue cop.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:40 PM   #108
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Gene, I don't think this is about being maucho or feeling powerful, or even being an angry type of person, it's about being able to be prepared in an emergency.
Not for everyone, but for some power and anger are motivating forces I believe.

I understand the emergency issue and the desire to protect yourself and loved ones. Howe often do those emergencies really happen compared to how many times people are innocently injured by those same guns obtained for emergencies?

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Old 05-11-2012, 06:46 PM   #109
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Arizona does not require a permit for concealed carry or open carry so what happened in Tucson? Why didn't anyone take down the kid that shot Congresswoman Giffords?
I recall that several people in the area had guns, but didn't use them. One was cautioned to put it away after the shooter was subdued because when the cops came they might shoot him. Because the shooter had an assault weapon, there was hardly any time to act before he exhausted the clip. He was in the middle of a crowd and if anyone had tried to shoot him, they would likely have hit bystanders.

I am not aware of hearing about people with concealed or unconcealed guns ever stopping bad guys although there was at least one post in this thread about that—the guy (Sodbust?—I read it this morning so I am not sure) who chased off some bullies from a bar. I'm sure some good guys have saved someone, but with all the talk how if everyone carried a gun it would prevent or reduce crime, I'd think I'd have heard about this happening, but never do.

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Old 05-11-2012, 06:50 PM   #110
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Aaah, Illinois. What to say, what to say. Umm, I"ve said it.

It is very difficult for your average, law-abiding citizen to be anything but polite, respectful and compliant with a uniformed officer who carries a loaded gun and has arrest powers. That's just reality.

If you have nothing to hide, being honest and cooperative seems to be the best course of action. Yes?



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Old 05-11-2012, 06:57 PM   #111
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Aaah, Illinois. What to say, what to say. Umm, I"ve said it.

It is very difficult for your average, law-abiding citizen to be anything but polite, respectful and compliant with a uniformed officer who carries a loaded gun and has arrest powers. That's just reality.

If you have nothing to hide, being honest and cooperative seems to be the best course of action. Yes?



Maggie
YES, and even if you are "hiding" SOMETHING, being old(er), polite and cooperative still works!
(and maybe making them believe you're completely honest)
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:59 PM   #112
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Thank you Friday and Fly at night for your comments!
As Canadians on this Forum we have been looked at as stupid and weak by some members. That is so far from the truth. For those Americans who have come to our defense I thank you. Oh and for the record, I have scared away Black bears in Banff National park by banging two pots together. Did not need a Glock or a Winchester. We share a lot of the same common freedoms and rights Americans do and some of them are just simply not needed in our society. Go ahead and throw rocks if you like. In the meantime I am going to look for a way to fix my ceased exhaust fan vent.
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