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Old 04-13-2013, 09:27 PM   #57
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MStephens, I don't know how you got the idea that I was talking about you specifically, but I was not.
Since it wasn't specific, and it was in a thread I started, I assumed I might have been included in your post. If not, that's fine too. I just wanted to be clear that I wasn't complaining from a position of a non-member. Thanks for clarifying.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:51 PM   #58
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Because of the way the entity is structured, it is IMO impossible for younger, new people to take over and reform it. There's a built in rigidity at the very top that protects itself and assures the status quo.

Amazingly to me, there is no real challenge yet. I'd sure like to see one.
???? Are you new? It seems to me there was quite a bit of serious challenge and not so very long ago. No matter though, the International club won and so it goes. If you call what you still seek to reform a winning posture. ????
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:54 PM   #59
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???? Are you new? It seems to me there was quite a bit of serious challenge and not so very long ago.
Can you elaborate on that?
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:10 PM   #60
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Can you elaborate on that?
Boy, could I ever! But I am hoping there is someone more elequent than I with a good capacity to sum it up susccinctly. Anyone care to do justice to those that have fallen in duty? I must say it was given a very valiant effort met with very dire consequences. It is a shame, and now all but forgotten, and for naught.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:16 AM   #61
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Boy, could I ever! But I am hoping there is someone more elequent than I with a good capacity to sum it up susccinctly. Anyone care to do justice to those that have fallen in duty? I must say it was given a very valiant effort met with very dire consequences. It is a shame, and now all but forgotten, and for naught.
I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but I have no idea what you are talking about in the last two posts.

When I said I was surprised that there had been "no real challenge yet" - I didn't mean in the WBCCI, I meant a new and modern club for Airstream owners that would compete with the WBCCI on a national level.

If there has been such an attempt, I am just unaware of it.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:40 AM   #62
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Just last year at the International rally, there was a motion to do away with the delegate voting, and go to individual member voting, either by absentee ballot, or by electronic means, and I think that would have really shaken up the club in a positive way, and brought newer ideas and activities in, but sadly, at least IMHO, it failed.

However, you would have had to have been there to understand why. It was presented to the delegates that were actually voting on the motion in an at least a ten minute dissertation how the sky was going to fall and the world might actually end if the motion was passed. You need to understand many of these delegates didn't really know what they were voting on, and most were intimidated by the club officers.

It was presented to the delegates that the delegates body would "cease to exist, and the club structure would just go away, and no one knew what would happen". Just one more way how the upper management of the club gets it's way.

However, there is one upcoming club officer that might be more receptive to making some meaningful changes to the club, but it will be several years in the future at best.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:49 AM   #63
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One other item that was planned to be voted on last year was the Motorhome Amendment. That is the one that would allow owners of any motorhome built by Thor Industries, the parent company of Airstream, to be allowed membership in WBCCI.

Many of the officers of WBCCI are for this amendment they say because they are getting older and don't know how long they will be able to hookup and pull a trailer. So, the can't pull a trailer, but they can drive a 30,000 pound truck? I believe they just want a new motorhome, but a new Airstream motorhome isn't available. I do know there are lots of used Airstream motorhomes available.

Anyway, the motion was put on hold and referred to the rules committee because at this time the rules of the club state membership requirement "must own a hard-sided RV built by Airstream", or something like that. So, the executives haven't lost that one yet, so watch for it.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:59 AM   #64
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Boy, could I ever! But I am hoping there is someone more elequent than I with a good capacity to sum it up susccinctly.
I am never eloquent or succinct, but I will give it a stab without crossing the line again. I am no longer a member and will never have another dog in the fight, so what I am about to say will have little bearing or respect from some who read it. I was a member, I no longer am....

There used to be a group of WB members who worked very hard and diligently from within the club to achieve some serious change. Their goal was to shift the top heavy power control more broadly and create an atmosphere where todays Airstream owners demographic benefited more. They were fought with every tool the old guard could muster. People were kicked out of the club, some were sued, but most just got tired of beating their heads against a very thick brick wall. Many members left in disgust. Some left out of protest. You can see when this happened by looking up the totals for membership, there is a rather dramatic drop beyond the normal downward trend. Just about all of the public information has been removed due to a suit brought by previous WB Forum host.
Everyone has moved on and now it seems a new group of people are talking about how to make it better. I hope they have better luck. From my point of view, they are not half as organized or vocal as the previous group was. I doubt they will get very far.

I look forward to the hate I will experience now. You are welcome to send it via "thanks" "PMs" or "email"
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:31 AM   #65
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Maybe the very vocal nature of the old "reformers" and the hate involved in it was part and parcel to the failure of the attempt.

Lynn

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...Everyone has moved on and now it seems a new group of people are talking about how to make it better. I hope they have better luck. From my point of view, they are not half as organized or vocal as the previous group was. I doubt they will get very far.

I look forward to the hate I will experience now. You are welcome to send it via "thanks" "PMs" or "email"
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:35 AM   #66
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Yep, maybe. But the word maybe can go either direction can't it.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:36 AM   #67
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Just last year at the International rally, there was a motion to do away with the delegate voting, and go to individual member voting, either by absentee ballot, or by electronic means, and I think that would have really shaken up the club in a positive way, and brought newer ideas and activities in, but sadly, at least IMHO, it failed.
Ahhh. I see. Thanks Steve. Yes, I knew about that in detail from our club delegate. (I also knew all about the MoHo issue).

I would say that all of that is part of the problem that could be solved with a new, modern club. It's easy to understand why members from 1962 wouldn't want to change, but it's not easy to see why members from 2012 would want to put up with that. I mean, I am sure Wally was an awfully nice fella, but I never met him, he's gone, I'm not, and I want to have some fun and adventure with friends in Airstreams, ya know?

As I said earlier, this is where too much tradition can become a boat anchor.

Thanks again for the explanation.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:51 AM   #68
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BTW, clubs of all kinds fall into the trap of building an exclusive domain for old-timers. This is nothing new. Power structures of every kind seek ways to protect their power. It's the natural flow. What is supposed to prevent this from happening is democratic rule making. Usually, this exists at the beginning of any club, but becomes subverted with "special new rules" that get passed while no one is looking. Pretty soon, you have a cemented in power structure and lots of unhappy plebes.

The answer is universal and always the same -- REVOLT. That is how the air gets cleared and everyone can breathe again. In this case, REVOLT just means write a new charter with democratic rules, and let the people crossover whom will and forget the rest who can take their power into the "beyond" if you will.

When I was first told all these stories about the old-timers grip on things, I sort of laughed and said you gotta be kidding right? Why let them hold sway? There's no land involved, there's no money involved (long ago the AS company did put money in, but I think that has ended), there's no reason under the sun not to simply sit down with pen and paper and make a new Airstream world. It seemed utterly obvious to me as a newcomer. But, there is that tradition thing. And what I discovered is that people are fearful that they will lose all the tradition and won't be able to make new ones. There is some point to that, but I think they make too much out of it. In fact, good traditions worth keeping can even be kept. So, I finally concluded that the real hold back was just inertia.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:53 AM   #69
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I look forward to the hate I will experience now. You are welcome to send it via "thanks" "PMs" or "email"
I hope not. It's been a nice thread and very friendly. I'd be bummed if people started to get nasty with each other for the sake of discussion, right? Your comments were not hateful.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:15 AM   #70
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But, there is that tradition thing. And what I discovered is that people are fearful that they will lose all the tradition and won't be able to make new ones. There is some point to that, but I think they make too much out of it. In fact, good traditions worth keeping can even be kept. So, I finally concluded that the real hold back was just inertia.
You are right, for the most part. It is tradition, but IMHO more about prestige. The officers of the club, from Region all the way up thru International, and all past officers in those positions, are treated like royalty at most big functions, and all the rest of the "regular members" are there to pay homage to the royalty, or so it appears to most of us.

At least, that is the impression that I and many other "regular members" take away from an International rally. Like a good friend of mine once said, "If you don't wear red pants, there's nothing there for you".

Again, don't get me wrong, I love our unit, and it's activities. The Region and International, not so much.
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