Airstream Factory

[J. Morgan]

A fully automated build requires design considerations and modular assembly, if Airstream were to move to a fully automated assembly, they would no longer be traditional Airstreams.

There is a lot of truth to what Andy stated above. There is a kind of customer who is never satisfied, this kind will always feel that they have paid too much and were delivered too little. Often these kind receive the very best that can be reasonably delivered, but are never satisfied. (Forbid it if there is a real problem that one of these have to work through)

This used to be about 5%, it is rising though, maybe 10% now.

These kind live and die by the mantra that "the customer is always right", and every issue is an opportunity for an adversarial confrontation where they intend to see the mantra play out.

The real problem is, is that these kind ruin things for the reasonable customer, as the companies are forced to live in an adversarial environment.

[dkottum]

I remember a Jan 2012 Forbes magazine interview with Airstream president Bob Wheeler about Airstream. Pretty good hints here about how they might use a larger factory, including world wide expansion and a move toward a line of light weight Airstreams. Here's part of it telling of the future:

"FORBES: I’m going to ask you to look into your crystal ball, into the deep future: Where do you see Airstream headed in the next decade? What are you hopes and dream for the RV industry and for your company in particular?

BW: I always feel and I feel more so than ever that the best years of this company are head of us. But this is our 80th year. The big opportunity certainly there’s opportunities for growth in North America. We need to add more dealers in areas that are underserved. We have a whole plate of exciting new products that could change people’s perception of Airstream. But then there’s always growing markets where there’s demand but no supply. We have a distribution in Europe that is very limited that can grow.

We’re in discussions right now in China. We think Brazil is a good opportunity. Australia. These are places where people know the brand and are just as passionate about Airstream as American consumers. But the only way they can get the products is through grey market, or they have to buy one in the U.S. and import it themselves.

So that represents a tremendously exciting opportunity. Our goal is so that anyone in the world that wants an Airstream has access to one. That’s pretty bold and far-fetched. The industry is going to face some challenges in the next 10 years. CAFE standards enforcing smaller vehicles with less tow capacity.

The U.S. RV industry has to get serious about lightweight. Travel trailers in particular, and the tow vehicles people are buying. They’re going to have to follow the path that European RV industry has taken. I think the European RV industry is 15 years ahead of us here in the U.S., simply with the things they’ve done in areas like light-weighting."

[m.hony]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

"Quality" often means different things to different people.

In a sense building a trailer that is still routinely in use after twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty years and more is in itself its own kind of quality, a rare quality these days, that many Americans in their impatience don't really admire, value, or often even recognize.

Just sayin.

That is correct.
It takes using the trailer to find the problems and get them corrected.
Then camping in a problem free trailer takes it to the next level of enjoyment.
With routine maintenance we can camp in our Airstream trailers indefinitely.
I don't think that can be said of wood framed or fiberglass sided or rubber roof trailers.

[Gene]

I'm glad some owners have trailers with no problems. I wish we had had the same experience. We had lots of issues and because the dealer where we bought it was so bad, we took to the Airstream service center where they did very good work while it was still under warranty. It is not just a few people who have had problems—there have been many threads on the Forum with many people reporting poor quality and workmanship.

I asked Wheeler several years ago whether they had quality control engineers. He said yes, but I then asked him where they were when they built our trailer. I asked him if the service center people and the factory people met to discuss issues which the mechanics well knew from fixing things. He said yes they did meet, but I suspect the factory people did not listen. Wheeler was hired to cut costs and some of his cost cutting was a disaster—OSB subfloors and front or rear end sag cost company a lot in warranty repairs, for example.

Yes, the basic design, created decades ago by Wally Byam, is very good. They tow easily and last a long time. But that doesn't mean present management can't screw it up.

They will not move south. They are in rural Ohio and there are plenty of workers who will take jobs at low pay. Thor Industries is very anti-union, but they can always find workers who will never be able to afford an Airstream.

I don't think the company has been a very good steward of Byam's dream.

Gene

[TG Twinkie]

You could say that ALL RV's are hand made. Since most are assembled one piece at a time. Very little automation.
I fail to see what makes A$ so expensive.
It is certainly not the equipment such as water heaters, refers and the like. Since they use the same items you find in most SOB's.
it isn't the flooring materials or the plumbing materials. Not the propane tanks etc.. It's not the axles or tires.
Aluminum is one of the least expensive materials on the market today. That is why soda and beer cans are made of it.
So! What makes them soooo expensive?
It is that WE are willing to pay. And PAY BIG for that 9 letter word.



Sent from my iPod touch using Airstream Forums

[westernjeep401]

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie

You could say that ALL RV's are hand made. Since most are assembled one piece at a time. Very little automation.
I fail to see what makes A$ so expensive.
It is certainly not the equipment such as water heaters, refers and the like. Since they use the same items you find in most SOB's.
it isn't the flooring materials or the plumbing materials. Not the propane tanks etc.. It's not the axles or tires.
Aluminum is one of the least expensive materials on the market today. That is why soda and beer cans are made of it.
So! What makes them soooo expensive?
It is that WE are willing to pay. And PAY BIG for that 9 letter word.



Sent from my iPod touch using Airstream Forums

Are the production people represented by a bargaining unit?

The AS is a luxury coach, and I suspect that the margin is...must be....significant enough to wash overhead. So, my thoughts are the price is reflected in high production overhead (this doesn't necessarily equate to "quality"), and management desire to make a profit to justify whatever their metric is for same.

Having started at the bottom of a bargaining unit workforce, and eventually making transition to management, I started noticing patterns of behavior. Monday and Friday production was always hampered by absenteeism; other production folks would have to "pick up the slack" (can still remember my buddy complaining the slackers got the slack, the workers get the work). Sometimes it was not their usual station, or even close. So what strikes me is something that happened years ago with me...a fittings guy, who was less than dedicated to good workmanship, would always blow Monday and Friday. The bargaining unit contract stipulated that the supervisor could only counsel IF the days were consecutive during the work week, unless there was a doctors note. As a welder, I had no idea how to fit a wall...and the result looked something like my AS lavy door.



It became clear that our product sucked. I wondered who, in the private sector, would tolerate this? I guess I have my answer...me.

[RVDreamer]

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie

So! What makes them soooo expensive?
It is that WE are willing to pay. And PAY BIG for that 9 letter word.

An Airstream trailer takes almost 5 times longer to produce than most inexpensive SOBs. You are not paying for materials, you are paying for labor.

It is Wally Byam's design that is the problem. Back in the day, labor was cheap and you could spend weeks constructing an Airstream and it didn't add much to the unit. Now production can't spend anymore than 5 days or the price per unit goes through the roof.

If the construction process could be automated the price would fall substantially.

But because customers like the original design the price stays high. Obviously the units could be improved with better QC, better materials and better appliances, etc but the price is never going to be competitive with an SOB.

[m.hony]

Originally Posted by Gene

I'm glad some owners have trailers with no problems. I wish we had had the same experience. We had lots of issues and because the dealer where we bought it was so bad, we took to the Airstream service center where they did very good work while it was still under warranty. It is not just a few people who have had problems—there have been many threads on the Forum with many people reporting poor quality and workmanship.

I asked Wheeler several years ago whether they had quality control engineers. He said yes, but I then asked him where they were when they built our trailer. I asked him if the service center people and the factory people met to discuss issues which the mechanics well knew from fixing things. He said yes they did meet, but I suspect the factory people did not listen. Wheeler was hired to cut costs and some of his cost cutting was a disaster—OSB subfloors and front or rear end sag cost company a lot in warranty repairs, for example.

Yes, the basic design, created decades ago by Wally Byam, is very good. They tow easily and last a long time. But that doesn't mean present management can't screw it up.

They will not move south. They are in rural Ohio and there are plenty of workers who will take jobs at low pay. Thor Industries is very anti-union, but they can always find workers who will never be able to afford an Airstream.

I don't think the company has been a very good steward of Byam's dream.

Gene

That resembles my experience.

[m.hony]

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie

You could say that ALL RV's are hand made. Since most are assembled one piece at a time. Very little automation.
I fail to see what makes A$ so expensive.
It is certainly not the equipment such as water heaters, refers and the like. Since they use the same items you find in most SOB's.
it isn't the flooring materials or the plumbing materials. Not the propane tanks etc.. It's not the axles or tires.
Aluminum is one of the least expensive materials on the market today. That is why soda and beer cans are made of it.
So! What makes them soooo expensive?
It is that WE are willing to pay. And PAY BIG for that 9 letter word.



Sent from my iPod touch using Airstream Forums

Part of the high price is that we are still buying.

[AWCHIEF]

Originally Posted by m.hony

Part of the high price is that we are still buying.

True, warts and all.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by TG Twinkie

You could say that ALL RV's are hand made. Since most are assembled one piece at a time. Very little automation.
I fail to see what makes A$ so expensive.
It is certainly not the equipment such as water heaters, refers and the like. Since they use the same items you find in most SOB's.
it isn't the flooring materials or the plumbing materials. Not the propane tanks etc.. It's not the axles or tires.
Aluminum is one of the least expensive materials on the market today. That is why soda and beer cans are made of it.
So! What makes them soooo expensive?
It is that WE are willing to pay. And PAY BIG for that 9 letter word.



Sent from my iPod touch using Airstream Forums

Airstream uses a number of automated processes.

But then, labor costs, advertising costs, that 5 letter nasty word TAXES, many material costs, all the metal costs, segments in 1966 sold for $ 15.00 retail, glass, paints, wire, warranty, Airstream's labor rate for warranty in 1966 was $ 5.00 if you were certified, shipping costs.

Machinery costs, both automated and manual.

Water, sewage, electricity and heating gas, have all gone up.

Then we won't even mention gasoline prices that add to the cost of delivering the coach to a dealer.

Oh yes, many things have increase way beyond Airstream's control.

But, Airstream's reputation is far superior than many RV manufacturers could even dream of.

Purchase an airplane, and see how the prices of aluminum have risen over the years.

Andy

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by m.hony

Part of the high price is that we are still buying.

Same goes for cars and trucks.

They have all gone up ant least in my time, 15 to 20 times.

And we still buy.

Andy

[Gene]

Originally Posted by lgwaldrop

Are the production people represented by a bargaining unit?

No. Some years ago there was an effort to unionize, but management made sure it wouldn't happen.

Having taken the tour twice, I thought it was labor intensive and could use a lot of automation, but automation's initial costs are high. Since they can sell everything they make, there was no economic incentive to change. There is at present one production line.

Costs of production that way are high. Things like taxes, water, etc., are the same everywhere in the upper Midwest, so those things are equal across the board. Across the state line, in Indiana many RV's are made and they have essentially the same fixed costs.

Gene

[ghaynes755]

Delivery charge, flat rate like the auto companies, is now $1300 and change. Last year I think it was just under $1000.

[Piggy Bank]

OK Devil's Advocate here.

If YOU were the head of AS and were give a chunk of capital and 125 new workers and big new barn, what would you do with it?

In you opinion, what market segment is AS currently not serving, or not serving optimally?

IMHO, it would be the need for smaller units with more features. Towable by a Honda Pilot or similar vehicle.

The current underfloor design (due to tank locations, etc.) can't get a twin bed unit in anything smaller than a 25. I think a lot of empty nester/part time retirees would like a smaller unit, say 18-23, with twin beds so there isn't the bed-hop in the current layouts, and still want an eating table available even when the beds are both made. Older backs get creaky and the bed-hop is an inconvenience.

AS used to have the gaucho models and even the rear bath, twin galley models. Bring them back I say.

I don't want to pull a 25, but not sure what to do about the bed-hop.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they came out with a 5th wheel on the other end of the spectrum.

[xrvr]

I can only hope they don't unionize. Then the quality and costs will skyrocket if this happens. Unions are not what they used to be!! Jim

[J. Morgan]

Anyone who has ever run a business that keeps books knows well that while the big lines like labor, material, and insurance take a chunk, it is all of the "little things" added together that get you in trouble.

[Ted S.]

I thought Airstream had a payroll of 350-400 people, an additional 125 people would therefore be a big uptick... They could be working on somthing big...

...iStream?

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by Bigventure

They need a quality control person.

...just one would help !!!

zig zag

I can only hope they don't unionize. Then the quality and costs will skyrocket if this happens. Unions are not what they used to be!! Jim

It would be great if the quality skyrocketed !!!

[xrvr]

Oops! The quality will fall and the costs go up. Sorry about the misstep. Jim