Your opinion is needed!!

[thenewkid64]

Ken,

part of the reason to move away form the MDF and solid woods is to reduce the weight. I was very surprised at how heavy the components that are currently installed were, when I looked at them on the factory floor. 5/8 inch plywood cabinet carcasses, and cabinets that are full box to maintain modularity.

All of this adds tremendous weight when compared to the simpler trailers of the 50's, 60's and even 70's. simple face frames withe shelves that are supported by minimal end walls and made from strong but lightweight materials would go a long way in putting the trailer on a diet.

Speaking to the quality of materials issue is part of the desire to look to the marine industry. the interior of the trailer will not see some of the extremes that a boat would, but it is nice to know that the hardware is over engineered at a minimum.

[Silvertwinkie]

I see, with that in mind, I suppose I wouldn't be interested in such a coach.

[fireflyinva]

It only sounds like a window dressing approach, which in my book, would never cut it.

Bottom line, it's something they can probably sell well, since your description feeds into the current trend for favoring simpler lines--but that's not the same as organic. Organic involves a design that reduces energy consumption, employs sustainable materials, and minimizes waste.

The only thing you mentioned that qualifies as organic in your description is linoleum flooring. The rest just sounds like a selection of more tasteful yet utterly generic furnishings (and leather is pretty much anti-organic).

What do they propose?

-A look, perhaps less tacky than the old "Dolly Parton" styled units and less radical than the avante guard look of the CCD.
-Organic, no.
-Ubiquitous, yes.
-Do "classic as not to be "retro" or outdated" in ten years--impossible (that's what they used to say about avocado green).

It's really a shame that they feel they are married to the current chassis. There is a real market for building in more efficiency as well as for using more natural, sustainable furnishings. It also means lighter trailer, more efficient appliances, composting toilets, integrated photovoltaics, etc.

Honestly, this concept sounds like Vintage Thunder. It's a great trailer, it's a lovely design--but it isn't really organic.

Mary

Brett, I like the way you describe it.

[till]

I for one would love to see some of the older floor plans used again. Even if it is in a newer body style. The newer materials and marine hardware is a good idea also.

[Janet H]

While they're designing - maybe they could make bathrooms for real people. Knee room around the throne - not to high - not to low. Don't mash the potty up against a wall or cabinet! Save the seperate shower for the really long models - weekend users in smaller units might rather have the space for something really important - like say - extra seating or a bigger bed. How about an outdoor shower option?

How organic are we talking here...? Hemp fabrics and cork floors?

[Over59]

Originally Posted by fireflyinva

composting toilets

Mary

Now see what you started

I guess organic means you have to pull it yourself and only eat sticks and weeds.

[crazylev]

Maybe I'm missing something....would this be AS's answer to an "AMG" type limited edition, and probably costly, but incredible detailed unit.

For instance: Substitute weight of MDF, and add that weight back into the frame in tthe form of an additional strut to further reinforce the floors.

The mechanicals would have to be the best of every maunfacturer.

Plywood carcasses would be great. They take screws better than particle board, even if you use threaded inserts in the MDF.

As far as floor plans go, there is probably only so much yu can do in an eight foot wide by xxxx long space.

From a design stand point, thee interior should be light. Although I love my 19' CCD, I've learned anytime you have a small space and add dark trim, the space only seems smaller.

I believe AS now has a Bambi Safari SE with the CCD interior shell, but has the wood venier cabinets. I'm not sure the wood species, though. That seems to be a happy medium.

Designers can be a narcisitc bunch. I know this from working in advertising/design. If you've ever been in a room full of designers, you almost want to head straight for the exits or jump out of a window. Don't get me wrong. Not ALL designers are nuts. My two closets friends are graphic designers...who both agree with me on this one. Since I am a photographer, it is safe for me to say they are pretty weird too.

Given that, the CCD was a great step forward for the RV world, and AS. A departure from the coffin-like fabric and interior designs of SOB's.

So with the new Bambi SE and the new Safari SE, I think that the dreamers at AS are really going the right way.

Way to go!

Jonathan

[overlander63]

Why not use a type of carbon-fiber type frame? That would get rid of a lot of weight, and also use a similar material for the stringers, bows, etc. Everything not visible. They may be able to save over a thousand pounds doing this on a larger trailer, plus it won't rust. dissimilar metal corrosion would be a thing of the past, also, since this stuff is not metal. And, not to stop there, why not a two-part A/C and heat system, with ducted A/C and heat vents?
I may get shot (or at least flamed) for this, but since there seems to be a problem with the end segments, either in finish, or the clearcoat peeling off, why not use a similar material in the end caps? It can be tinted silver, would be more damage resistant, and eliminate the peeling clearcoat? If it isn't clearcoated, it can't peel.

[ALANSD]

I think high wuality retro materials like real wood veneers and nice wood accents along with tasteful non floral upholstery would be terrific. We are so tired of going to RV shows and seeing the floral chairs and couches, or white leather with white carpet and marble countertops...I wish you could go camping in an RV that had a fuctional but attractive interior, that had some real warmth. Wood or laminate or cork flooring, the abive idea of zip off covers on the upholstery in denim or some nice liveable material. Cabinets that I might find in my mountain cabin or lake house. That sort of design if practical would appeal to me.

[early]

We are using the birch and it makes the AS seem bigger. Ours was so dark. Rich butter yellows and sage greens are very soothing colors. Nice clean lines. Simple plaids and strips. Cognac colored floors. I agree with the marine hardware, also. Light colored bathroom with big throw rugs, maybe a towel warmer.(just kidding) Luxury with low maintance. I just like classical looks and that's the way we are doing ours, but its all in personal taste. From all the redos I have seen people like different, especially AS owners.

Dawn

[TomW]

Originally Posted by overlander63

Why not use a ...{bunch of awesome ideas }

Terry,

Those are fantastic ideas! If Airstream actually incorporated them, I could actually buy a new one!

Gotta go now and give you good karma...

Tom

[thenewkid64]

I should have done a better job with the description of "organic". Organic as in the flow and feel of the interior. Like Frank Lloyd Wright organic, not Mother Earth news/Foxfire organic.....

[Over59]

So I guess that means the toilets will still flush. I think I may have gotten the organic think off on the wrong foot with the grass idea. Still a good idea I think. Really like the carpet and cushion ideas. May be a business there for someone. Selling sets of cushions, carpets, and curtains to people who want a new look after 4 or 5 years. And do something about those awful front sofas. Those are reason enough to not buy one. The first thing I look for in a unit is the front dinnette. It's our favorite feature of the Caravel and will be in the Overlander.
Prehaps you've seen the hard sliding covers for GMC pickups. Why not a table that using some of the same elements

[Foiled Again]

I remember an OLD Volkswagen commercial - "Some people love the Beetle for what it is... and some love it for what it can be" - cut to a wildly designed Dune Buggy... That is the way Airstreamers think.

I Really like my 2005 22ft CCD, but I'm already making a few changes.

First I have the royal blue dinette fabric - pretty and water resistant, but it's one solid color. I'm always going over it with a brush and lint roll because it's a lint magnet, and every mote of dust shows. A fabric that has a variation of tone (tweed, etc.) would look clean a lot longer. I'd definitely vote for removable, replaceable and washable covers on the dinette. I'm a fulltimer and I know that both the fabric and the foam won't last forever. I could see myself "redecorating" and replacing the covers every 2 years or so. I'd be delighted to have the option of buying replacements rather than paying for custom upholstery. (Of course I sew and could do the work myself IF I can find the free time.)

I did NOT opt for the miniblinds - I hate cleaning the things and they'll get very dusty in a trailer. I am upgrading the fabric on the window blinds though - using silver lame - believe it or not. It's a very easy thing to do.

The cushions with their funny little sausage rolls do NOT make a comfortable bed. I am toying with the idea of tossing the originals out, making a two piece cushion - a crescent shaped snap on back piece - same shape as the headrest/pillow that Airstream includes with the bed - and a rectangular seat cushion. Then when I convert it to a bed, pop off the seat cushions and use an AeroBed (or other equivalent inflatable). A thinner back cushion would make the dinette roomier.

The dinette: The bathroom door hits the back edge of the rear seat of the dinette. I put a stick-on piece of felt on the edge of the dinette to keep the bathroom door from getting marred from constantly banging against the dinette. I'm seriously considering moving the whole freakin' dinette forward three inches to allow a full swing on that door, and give a little more room for the desk. This can be done if I move the fire extinguisher - and it looks like there is enough slack in the power box to slide it forward too.

I'm surprised they don't offer the 22 ft with a side gaucho option instead of the dinette. You could use tray tables or a small fold down table for eating, have more floor space and have a comfy single bed.

Like my computer desk and kitchen as is, and the chair is comfortable. I really should order a second one from A/S so I can move them outside - just nest them for traveling.

The bed: As we speak I'm having a custom innnerspring mattress made for mine - OVAL in shape, with two separate foam corner pieces for the side that doesn't go against the curved front end. The current mattress has two rounded corners to fit into the front curve of the A/S and it can't be turned from side to side. It will wear out on the only one side. I'll be able to flip the oval one from side to side for more even wear. Surprisingly the custom shape is only a $50 upcharge from a stock size.

I like the vinyl floor, though linoleum would be fine too. Carpet - ugh! In a trailer it will get so dirty so fast and will pick up bad smells in no time. I bought two inexpensive throw rugs that run the length of my trailer. They are the same color as the vinyl. I vacuum them or take them out and shake them - and when they get really gross I'll either hose them down or replace them.

I really like the bare interior, but where the bed meets the walls it could use "the rag" just for warmth. I like my dark cabinetry, but the lighter wood with the Safari/CCD hybrid style looks good too.



I'd personally go for a unit with just the kitchen and bath done. Furnish with high-end tatami mats, futon cushions and a low folding table - Japanese decor - cool and very flexible. The CCD comes close to that.

[fireflyinva]

Brett,

I'd say few folks (except, perhaps Art History majors) would associate the term "organic" with Frank Lloyd Wright--though I grant you that he did use that term (for intance, it doesn't come up in the dictionary.com definition of "organic"). I think a term derivative of "prairie," "craftsman" or "mission" would be more recognizeable.

That style is currently trendy. It may bring appeal to buyers who want a fashionable interior, but not the edginess of the CCD (but there is no CCD motorhome, irrc). Again, it sounds like Vintage Thunder (an observation that I notice you didn't disagree with). Dave Winick's past design appears to be in that genre, though I don't know what he has presently planned. So, there may be a real marketing opportunity to hit up the "MOHO" (?) crowd...

However, there is a catch. Airstream coaches already are considered at upper end of price points for stock production rv units (albeit not clear at the top, which is claimed by custom jobs, which I'd consider a whole different animal). The consequense of more deluxe finishings like you mention will make production costs rise still more. There may not be a market for a coach with a significantly higher purchase cost, even with deluxe fittings. Also, it seems that Class A Motorhome buyers tend to seek more traditional interiors (perhaps correllated with their higher cost). But really, establishing price elasticity is something that has to be determined by market research (focus groups, etc.). But effective marketing research is an Airstream strong point.

Mary

PS. 59, can't live without the flush? You poooooor old camping guy! Too bad the original 59 vitreous ones didn't flush either...

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Over59

So I guess that means the toilets will still flush. I think I may have gotten the organic think off on the wrong foot with the grass idea.

Sorry, I just have a thing about not having to mow the carpet in my trailer...

[sovereignrwe]

Why are vintage trailers loved? (rhetorical) If they didn't have the advantage of aluminum and weren't well built, they wouldn't still be here.

There were a lot of great trailers made over the years with great woods, great floors, great countertops, fabrics, etc., and some of them may well have had better layouts and better materials, but most of them are gone. They didn't have high quality exteriors, or they weren't serviceable.

Bottom line: We can nitpick the insides as much as we want. Airstream needs to focus on making the things last, and make them easy to replace the parts when we need to in 25 years. If Airstream can accomplish that, the love of the aluminum will keep them alive, keep the fanatic customer base and customized to individual tastes for years to come. If not, then people will get turned off.

[thenewkid64]

Originally Posted by fireflyinva

That style is currently trendy. It may bring appeal to buyers who want a fashionable interior, but not the edginess of the CCD (but there is no CCD motorhome, irrc). Again, it sounds like Vintage Thunder (an observation that I notice you didn't disagree with). Dave Winick's past design appears to be in that genre, though I don't know what he has presently planned.

Mary,

I understand your points regarding the "organic", I am a student of the FLW architecture and made the connection in my feeble mind. I am not trying to say that I think the interior would reflect a mission or prairie style. Just that the the word organic is being used to define a flow or overall feel.
Besides there are not enough straight lines to follow the FLW style unless we are doing a 34 footer

I did not disagree with the Vintage Thunder statement because in a way it will be somewhat like that. We attempted to keep it light, add some new technology, and use some nice materials in it to give it a "quality" feel. But in this case the whole interior will get that treatment. We were limited by working with the existing cabinets, etc.

I think there are some excellent ideas in this thread and I am sure there will be some more. I will be just as excited as the rest of you to see the final design. But in the meantime, keep the ideas coming!

[bredlo]

The FLW school of thought would be an interesting way to go at this. Seriously, Airstream could go to the Taliesin school in Arizona, and pump those guys for some new ideas. I'll bet with their training in form following function, you would see a result that wasn't based on what types of materials are used... but whether or not it's purpose is worth the weight and space it takes up.

As I start to redesign our trailer, I'm going to be thinking about making everything as multi-functional as possible. Not just sofas that turn into beds, but also bathroom sinks and toilets that fold into the wall to make more room in the shower, (like in old Pullman rail cars,) and traffic patterns at night, when beds could take over almost all the floor space for maximum comfort. Since ours is a 19 footer, we'll have to be extremely judicious about what we put in there, we're not going to waste an inch.