**What They Say!**

[pinkflamingoes]

No one tells you this part! This is the EXACT reason I just talked my husband out of looking to buy property with a cabin on it. I told him I would settle for some land that we could park the trailer on, but that I'm not interested in taxes, insurance, maintenance, repair, for going to a cabin in the woods in the same place vacation after vacation. If we did have the money falling out of our ears, which we don't, I'd still want to fix up the airstream, pull it onto that land which requires no maintenance, but have the option of going many many other places I haven't seen if we want to. We may still buy the land, for investment purposes, but unless vacation property is for investment income, it's usually not worth it. There are probably exceptions but nothing I want to jump into!

Originally Posted by sovereignrwe

The more research we did, the more it became clear that our weekends would be spent driving to and from the cabin, and once there, working on general maintenance items for a good share of the time. Yes, it was an investment that would show a return, if you ignore the time invested in upkeep.

[71_safari]

Well, some great reasons to own an Airstream, and I love mine. But there are many reasons that an Airstream, or for that matter, the RV lifestyle might not be everyone's cup of tea. And no one seems to be interested in mentioning them, so I will. For example, and just to present both sides of the coin here, a few tradeoffs of RV travel in general that I have discovered in the past few years are:

a) Well, you have to pull it (trailer), or drive it (motorhome) or carry it on your back (truck camper). They are big and cumbersome. I have owned several types of RV's, and with the exception of my Westfalia, which I am not really counting, none of them have been as speedy, maneuverable or as much fun as travelling by car (or motorcycle) alone. You have to be really aware of what you are driving, especially in towns. It is a major hassle to stop suddenly or turn around and go back for a photo of something you just passed. Parking can be a hassle, especially in crowded areas (duh!).

b) When you really want to enjoy the road, or go off-road for that matter, they are not much fun. Unless I plan to stay put somewhere for a few days I often prefer to take my car or motorcycle and do the motel thing. I am not particularly worried about germs, (c'mon, they are everywhere!) and the fuel savings, time savings, and driving pleasure more than make up for the difference between a $60 motel room and a $20 campsite. I often find great little lodges to stay in for a few dollars more that I would never try out if I have the trailer behind. I can fly down twisty two lane roads. If I take the SUV, with a tent, a whole new world of camping off road in National Forests and BLM land opens up. If you want remoteness, that is where you find it, not in a campground or RV park.

c) With an RV, I have found that one has to plan more carefully in order to ensure site availability along the way, or risk a hassle. This makes it very difficult to be spontaneous, especially in the peak seasons. It is especially difficult to find a trailer-sized spot in a state park or other campground at the last minute, whereas tent sites are frequently available. It can cause stress. Often you end up in RV parks with hookups, which may be fine for some, but are not to everyone's taste.

d) One can become focused on RV travel, to the exclusion of other modes, such as car camping (with tent), backpacking, bike touring, going overseas, etc. All of these other modes of travel have their own rewards, but once you have an investment of this size, you naturally want to maximize it, for obvious reasons. I have found in the year I have owned my trailer I have not done much other travel, partly due to the investment in it. With the trailer in the driveway I am less tempted to just throw a tent and camping gear into the car, or on the bike, and hit the road like I used to. I haven't flown anywhere except for business. I miss doing those things, you might not.

e) RV's in general require a whole new set of skills and knowledge to maintain and use. They tend to cost a lot to own, keep and maintain. As a result, they also tend to engender a certain lifestyle, frequently (but not always) based on comfort and convenience. It seems everyone is always trading up, both RV and tow vehicle, especialyy with other brands (SOB's), not so much Airstreams. But it can become a major, depreciating investment which will exclude other options unless you are really well off. Many compare to a cabin on a lake, but last I heard, most lakefront real estate, in most parts of the country, is going up in value, not depreciating.

f) There is also the whole issue of fossil fuel consumption which goes against the grain of those who tend to think environmentally. Gas or diesel, it takes more fuel to travel with a small home behind you than not. When parked, they use a lot less energy than a second home or cabin, but when moving you are fighting the laws of physics. On the road, my motorcycle gets 40mpg, the car gets 30mpg, the SUV gets 20mpg, and pulling the trailer, 10-12mpg. Most RV's get somewhere around that, or less. Yes, a diesel will do a bit better but not that much better. Of course a flying vacation is the worst, but some folks won't do that either if they can avoid it.

g) One certainly meets many great folks this way, but I have not found this to be the exclusive domain of the Airstream trailer (although you guys are the best!). Many special interest groups qualify, especially if they support a particular hobby or lifestyle, and have an internet forum. I have met and maintained friendships with folks from my motorcycle touring group, sailing club, and from owning both Westfalia and Alaskan Campers. And I have never met as many perfect strangers as simply travelling by motorcycle, which is similar to the Airstream - everyone had one, wants one, or knows someone....

I am not knocking RV travel, especially Airstreaming, as I have really enjoyed my travels in the Safari this year and met many new friends. It is a wonderful concept, with many benefits, that requires no justification. But I do want to point out that this form of travel, really a lifestyle, does have some trade-offs, especially from the perspective of someone who likes to travel in other ways, too. Night and day differences in some ways. Hence the reason some people don't understand it. Just wanted to present both sides.

cheers,

-john

[j54mark]

Originally Posted by 71_safari

f) There is also the whole issue of fossil fuel consumption which goes against the grain of those who tend to think environmentally.

This is a far more difficult issue than one might think. There is the energy costs of building, maintaining, and heating/cooling those motel rooms and all the ancilary facilities. This is why rationing and price controls always come a cropper - it is just too difficult to figure out what is and is not efficient. Price, I can figure. Environmental impacts I can't.

Originally Posted by 71_safari

But I do want to point out that this form of travel, really a lifestyle, does have some trade-offs,
-john

Oh boy does it ever have trade offs. I really do not understand how anyone who is not "handy" can deal with an RV. New, old, it doesn't matter, there is a just a lot of stuff that can and will go wrong.

And anyone who buys an RV and dreams of paying for it in travel savings is likely going to be disappointed.

Not everything appeals to everyone and we have no more right to criticize those who choose NOT to use an RV for travels than they do us. Likewise, not all RV'ers have the same uses. One thinks of the many planned RV communities around the country where the unit is purchased, towed on site, and left for years and years. Or the people whose job takes them here, there, everywhere, who use an RV to have something like a "home".

It's not always a travel lifestyle. In our own case, we don't use the Airsteam for "travel". We use it for a get away. We don't go to meet people. We don't seek adventures. We just want a weekend or a few days in a low maintanence, low pressure environment.

Yes, there is a cost involved, but I find it reasonable. The truck I have to have anyway. The coach was bought used, and has actually appreciated - something I did not expect, nor do expect to continue. Vacation properties do appreciate, sometimes. Sometimes they depreciate. Either way, there is a significant interest cost in the money tied up, the taxes, insurance, and the maintanence.

Choices. We're all different. That's why, in a free society, we have choices.

Mark

[gadgetat]

This whole thread struck a chord with me in a big way! My apologies in advance for what will most likely be a long post…..

Back in 2001 my wife & I set off to attempt a “Thru-Hike” of the Appalachian Trail. At the time I sneered at “Weekenders & Campground Campers”. I initially had the “Thru-Hiker” arrogance that today completely turns me off.

While we found many things to enjoy while hiking 750 miles of the AT, my personal thinking changed greatly. My best memories from the trail are of the trail towns we stopped into along the way, the kindness of strangers in each of these towns, and the people who lived in these places we were passing through. I've found all the same since we have become Airstream owners as well.

Each time we departed trail towns my heart sunk a little. Not just because I was walking away from tasty pizza and a never ending supply of Mountain Dew (although that did make me a little sad too). Erin and I would walk away back into the mountains talking about coming back and spending more time in each place! As we walked we found more and more places that we wanted to spend a longer time in, and the demands of a Thru-Hike didn’t allow for enjoying any one place for a long term.

Also as we made our way we met many great “Trail Angels” at road crossings who offered their help, their food, and their friendship. Many of these fantastic individuals usually had a trailer in tow, or were in their motorhomes enjoying a view when we walked out of the woods. We found more kindness among the “Weekenders” than I’d ever imagined.

On one of my toughest days in the Smokies one trail angel saved the day. There was only one road crossing in the entire park, and it was located at New Found Gap. We’d been sleeted on, rained on, sleeted on some more, and generally frozen to our cores. I really started asking myself what we had gotten into. But I also knew we’d get to New Found Gap and find a way down to Gatlinburg for the evening.

When we hit the road crossing a big man with a booming voice greeted us. “I’m called Pappa John! Are you Thru-Hikers? Come on over, grab some food, get out of your wet socks, and take a break!” Pappa John had a really great truck camper setup in the parking lot, several tables set out with food, soda, and beers. Many of the folks we’d been hiking with were sitting in the lot sharing stories, and receiving great kindness from a sizable group of “Weekenders”. What started out as a terrible day was saved by an act of kindness from a man who enjoyed popping into the Smokies from time to time to give a hand to the crazy hard core Thru-Hiker crowd. My evolution in thinking was well under way.

By the time we decided to end our hike I learned a lot. Many times we’d stop in a beautiful spot and wish we had more time to spend there. But as usual we’d have to keep moving if we really wanted to complete the hike within 6 months. It was very disappointing sometimes to have to “rush through” places we liked. I started thinking about how we could come back and spend more time in each area, really explore it, and really get to know the people who called the place home.

After we returned home I started considering ways we could enjoy the places we’d walked through more. Our first solution was a Eurovan Weekender. In 2002 we spent a month on the road traveling West. When we reached Banff, Canada I decided the Eurovan wasn’t enough. In Banff I realized I wanted to spend at least a month there! We’d need something much more substantial. After returning from that trip I started researching travel trailers, campers, etc. I then found Airstream!

I think I’ve followed the same path as a local New Hampshire writer, Mike Dickerman. His book, “Why I’ll Never Hike The AT”, which is a collection of short stories from the White Mountains, reflects how I now look at traveling in the mountains. Like us, Mike loves hiking and exploring new places. But at the end of the day he likes to return home for a warm shower, a good meal, and his cozy bed (and at home you never have shelter mice running across your sleeping bag….eeek). I now agree 100%, and the home I like returning to is our Airstream! I can still hike, go to remote places, and enjoy meeting all the great people along the way. And now I don’t have to rush through the area!

Plus the Airstream helps keep me close to Pizza and a never ending supply of Mountain Dew, and there are no shelter mice on board! Did I mention the bathroom on the Airstream is much better than any privy we ever used along the trail??? The Airstream is sheer luxury!

We’re now looking forward to putting a pad on our property in Jefferson, and bringing our portable home up for longer stays. I agree completely with all the comments regarding cabins, maintenance, and vandalism made so far on this thread!

Thanks for this thread! I’ll never again knock what I have yet to try….The old AT expression for that was, “Hike your own Hike”. I get it now.

[sovereignrwe]

Great post, Rich!

[TDOW]

I recently described our travels as going everywhere, but always being home. There is nothing more depressing than a sterile hotel/motel room. At the end of the day I'm drinking a cocktail from my favorite glass, lounging in my own bed, and dreaming of what tomorrow might bring. When it does rain, we spend our time reading, solving puzzles, talking, etc. Its also the best night of sleep in the world.

[Stefrobrts]

What a fascinating trip your through hike must have been, Rich, that is truly something most people will never get to do. I have read books about doing that, though am likely to never do so myself, but had not heard about RVrs coming out to meet hikers and offer them some comfort. Very interesting!

TDOW, I agree, there is nothing like sitting out a rainstorm/thunderstorm in a cozy Airstream, surrounded by all the comforts of home!

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

TDOW, I agree, there is nothing like sitting out a rainstorm/thunderstorm in a cozy Airstream, surrounded by all the comforts of home!

As long as there is no hail!

Jack

[gadgetat]

Originally Posted by Stefrobrts

What a fascinating trip your through hike must have been, Rich, that is truly something most people will never get to do. I have read books about doing that, though am likely to never do so myself, but had not heard about RVrs coming out to meet hikers and offer them some comfort. Very interesting!

Stephanie,

Thanks. It was fun, interesting, difficult, exciting, and everything else you could feel. What so many books leave out are the "true true" life parts. Sitting down in a shelter at the end of the day so tired you don't want to eat. Bursting into tears the 5th morning your boots are too frozen to put on (my wife & I both did that one). And then there are the moments when you know that taking the trip was worth it all.

I've found that the experience made me appreciate seeing new places even more. It also left me wanting to spend long amounts of time in random small towns. One other favorite part of the trail was getting into a town, finding the nearest convinence store, getting a Dew, and sitting in the parking lot for what seemed like forever watching people come and go.

On our trips with both the Eurovan and Airstream I've captured the same exact feeling many times. Erin & I have popped into rest stops along our travels, looked at each other and said, "Remember sitting in the Dairy Queen parking lot in Bland, VA?" Folks probably wonder who the odd folks are sitting on the concrete parking bricks with big grins!

Many people "section hike" the AT over years. I've met several who have friends or family meet them with an RV. They use it as a base camp. Dropped off at one road crossing, picked up at another. No heavy pack when you're slack packing! Might be a great use of an Airstream.

Two of our friends who finished the trail bought a Class A shortly after their hike (sold their house to boot). Each year they go to "Trail Days" in Damascus. As they travel they seek out hikers along their route to bring to Trail Days (most hikers try to make it back for the big celebration). During the week of trail days more campers, trailers, buses, and Class A's crowd the Damascus area. It is quite the scene. Now I'm thinking about a road trip.....

Rich

[maxandgeorgia]

Fascinating reads. Thanks, all. Rivets and rotted floors are great talk too, and necessary (!), but getting into the "heart" of our "addiction" is equally engrossing. As always, I enjoy and I'm impressed by the diversity of discussion on this forum. A good thread!

[pinkflamingoes]

Thanks for *all* of these posts, they make me feel less alone in my refurbishing insanity.

Gadgetat, I read "A Walk In The Woods" as you probably have too, I think what hit home the most for me when I read it, besides the story about the town with the coal fire underneath it that lasted 30 plus years, is when the author, after miles and miles and months of hiking and blisters and beauty and heartbreak, joy and frustration, stops in a cafe that has a map of the trail on the wall. He sees how he and his buddy have only covered one inch on a line that is about two feet long and realizes he's not even close to the halfway done he thought he was. I FELT his pain.

How far did you get, did you finish? (I know that's not the point of hiking it, I'm just curious)

I highly recommend the book. Bill Bryson, A Walk In The Woods.

[WayWard Wind]

I'd like to say how great it is to see such diversity & acceptance in the forum. No one shoe fits all here. Probably being in a more advanced age than some, we've had cabins by the lake, different SOB trailers, almost to many tents & backpacks to count, along with all the gear for each one. We even winter tent camped at -25, now that's an experiance. We found the good, the bad & the ugly in all. From my experiance I'd have to say our BEST travel, camping, etc, was when we would take our weeks vacation & travel the Boundry Waters Canoe Area in Northern Minnesota. We --the wife & I--could really relax --no phone, no TV, no--have to go do this or that & back then we didn't have cell phones. Rainy days under a tarp with a small fire & a good book, Wolves howling at night, the call of the loons, starry skies like you never see at home. The challenges of the storms, lighting, wind, rough water made one realize, it was just you against nature and it could get bad, if not careful. It was hard to beat. Wow!! Memories of times past. Found it was over when lines begin to form at the portages, junk hauled in & left. Just got totally disgusted at the lack of respect for the Great land. Anyway if you ever get to Northern Minnesota, you just have to take a short canoe trip. It's a great experiance. Now on to Airstreaming!!!
Best,

[mcneon]

I moved up to a motorhome as tow vehicle for my racecar. The paddocks at most tracks are okay places. But, when you're there for a minumum of ten to twelve hours a day, and (if you're lucky and don't break) much of that is sitting-around time, it's awfully nice to have a fully-equipped portable refuge only a few steps away.

At the end of a long, hot day, the shower in my Argosy feels wonderful - and it's not 30 minutes away. I don't have to worry about getting to the motel, cleaning up, and then settling for a mediocre meal in some cheesy restaurant that's likely overloaded with other racers and fans. If there's a Saturday evening social at the track, which our SCCA events usually have, I can imbibe and not worry about endangering myself or anyone else on the walk back to my accommodations. The next morning, I don't have the frantic drive to the track for an 8 a.m. (or earlier) on-track session. Instead, it's start the coffee at leisure and visit with the "neighbors."

I assumed that having an air-conditioned space on 95-degree days would be one of the main benefits, and that is wonderful. At one of my first motorhome-supported races, though, 45-degree daytime highs and rainy, overcast conditions made me even gladder that I had a working furnace. Nomex is warm, but not that warm. Lots of my racer friends must have agreed, too, because the old Argosy was crowded just about all day long.

Racetracks, I've discovered, can be wonderfully peaceful places early in the morning, before engines are fired for the day's main activities. I really enjoy the contrast, and it's something I used to miss out on.

Then there was that time I was headed home with a racer friend in his GMC MH when we encountered severe storms about two hours from home. Without a moment's hesitation, we pulled into the closest rest stop, shut the rig down, and slept like babies for about two hours in some very comfortable beds. True luxury!

Bob

[overlander64]

As a Free Wheeler, I find traveling in either my Airstream or Argosy roughly equivalent to living in an older neighborhood of bungalow houses with old-fashioned front porches with swings. Opening the awning and setting up the lawn chairs produces much the same results as sitting on the front porch swing - - before too long a neighbor will stop by to visit.

One of my friends who can't understand why I insist upon traveling by RV whenever possible focuses only on the "cost" pulling and parking the RV. When I traveled using the "motel" method, it was rare to really get acquainted with any of my fellow travelers; while with the Airstream or Argosy, I return from virtually every trip with a few new friends.

Another friend just can't understand why my preference is for traveling by RV rather than taking group tours. After trying the group tour routine, I found a major difference between that travel method and RVing - - unlike my Caravans and Rallys with the WBCCI, a group tour is regimented and it is difficult (if not virtually impossible) to "opt-out" of a portion of the tour - - with WBCCI Rallys and Caravans, you have the option of choosing what you wish to do in regard to participation.

Kevin

[maxandgeorgia]

AEMilliman, you speak to my mind tonight. We are starting to talk about reserving a site for a few weeks to a month in Grand Marais this summer in the AS, putting us in reach of so many of those Northern Minnesota pleasures you describe. We cannot do long canoeing treks now, but we'll paddle Loon Lake or a slow part of the Brule, drive to Gunflint and maybe Saginaga... spending time in the region fills the mind and rests the soul for the rest of the year. I only wish we had discovered this magical land when we first married and would have been able to do the deep canoeing you speak of! Thank God for books that can take me there. Just tonight I picked up North Writers (A Collection) and was reading a piece by William O. Douglas about a trip made with Sigurd Olsen.

[mandolindave]

I head nay sayers off at the pass, and tell them that I have become
"Trailer Trash". But my Mom reminded my brothers and sisters that
Airstreams are the Caddilac of trailers. Then I reminded them that I was
her favorite...............Then they pounded me

[WayWard Wind]

Thanks Maxandgeorgia for the understanding post. The Gunflint trail was where we made our last canoe trip. Kinda went over the top when we had to pull in early, due to a storm, at a closed camp site. After the storm we discovered why it was closed. The BWCA volunteers had used it as a drop off point for collected junk, as they went around picking up after others. You wouldn't believe what all was there. Anyway I was going to mention that I have the complete collection of Sig's books & even as we AS travel I carry some for night time reading. For me, he has a way that really speaks to the quietness of the land. My good wife made me a beautiful wall hanger with a quote from Sig--"My wilderness world has to do with the calling of Loons, Northern Lights and the great silence of the land"--end quote. I might also suggest that another good book is "Canoeing with the Cree", by Eric Severid? Written in I believe 1933, but it's still a great book that can take you back to a wilderness solitude. Hope you make it to the Gunflint as I just know you'll have a great time.
Best,

[DEO]

SilverTwinky…

*** What they Say ***

This is a really interesting question. My Airstream peeks out slightly from behind my house. The comments I have received from my neighbors are pretty much about how much they would love to have one and how cool the Airstream is. In my work I travel over 100,000 miles a year around the world and for the most part my wife and I vacation via air a few times a year. I certainly spend my fair share of time in hotels / motels / resorts which believe it or not ….it is a lifestyle I really enjoy. I view my Airstream and truck as another recreational activity which provides a different venue for fun. I have only taken a couple of significant trips with it and attended 1 WBCI rally but so far I really think the whole RV thing is a lot of fun. I don’t think I will give up tent camping completely and I don’t think I will stop vacationing in Hawaii (of which I do as often as possible) . Most of my friends and associates are very interested in the “Airstream thing” more so than the idea of RV’ing. I think my wife and I cycled through many of the reasons stated earlier in this thread (bring all your stuff with you, no hotel checkins checkouts, RV vs. a sailboat). The reason we ultimately got into this is all of the above. After spending a year reading and discussing in the forum here I am considering purchasing a second vintage AS to restore as a hobby. Hmmm.. Maybe this is a disease ….