What I wish I knew 5 years ago

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Craig Schrader

My comments are directed to people thinking about purchasing a Airstream and Tow vehicle.
It is more expensive over the long haul than Motels!

That depends. RVIA commissioned PKF Consulting to perform a study that compared the cost of various vacation modes:
The Recreation Vehicle Industry Association: Vacation Costs
The Recreation Vehicle Industry Association: RVIA Press Releases
http://www.airstreams4rent.com/pkf_consulting_study.pdf

If you only compare total cost to buy a trailer and tow vehicle vs. staying in a motel, you're absolutely right. However, the important comparison is the total cost per day of use. The study showed that, if you amortize the total vacation cost per day, travel trailers are about the third cheapest vacation mode, behind tent camping and pop-up trailers.

Plus, if yout vacation style was to travel to a destination and stay in a motel, eating restaurant food the whole time, how many nights would you spend in a motel in a year? Compare that to the number of nights per year you spend in an Airstream, eating homemade meals. Divide the cost by the time, and you'll see the comparison comes out a lot more favorably.

[slowmover]

The longer one owns TT and TV the lower it goes. My folks had one TT and two TV over a twenty-seven year period. One other car besides this.

Ownership really is nights aboard over miles travelled. On a per decade basis it works very favorably.

As to a diesel it too can work well. I recently rolled over 200k. Repairs have been ujoints and some fan wiring. MPG has averaged 21 the past 56k 50/50 town/ country. Depreciation has been 6k in eight years.

TT &TV will take quite a lot of money as I go along to upgrade and make repairs prior to failure, but this is far cheaper than a finance note cost. Much of it is optional. What I want versus what I absolutely must have.

The approach of buying used has dollar outlay in its favor albeit at a price in time & energy. Thus one sees the recommendation of an about ten year old A/S plus a 3-5 year old TV for minimizing cost at the outset. A project or three annually keeps reliability higher and pleasures received on an even keel.

I've shown in more than one post elsewhere that the discipline to improve solo fuel economy can underwrite my cost of fuel for 5k of vacation travel and that others operate vehicles with a higher return.

And there are some very good posts on this forum quoting studies on experiences versus things. We opt for the latter even though it is the former that weighs greater in looking back over our lives.

There is also the practical aspect of moving "home" in face of natural or man made troubles. Much easier to heat and cool and cook and clean in a TT during such. Or move away for an interim or for good. Or just to remodel. So don't overlook the practical aspects either.


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[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Craig Schrader

My comments are directed to people thinking about purchasing a Airstream and Tow vehicle.
It is more expensive over the long haul than Motels!

Maybe. I suppose it depends on your tastes in motels, where you go, who goes with you, and how you eat.

It is my experience that it is, logistically, nearly impossible while staying in hotels or motels to prepare much food from scratch. It can be done for some types of trips, if you get a kitchenette and don't move around much. I've done it. But the reality, at least in my experience, is that on hotel/motel trips, most of the food comes from restaurants. I typically travel with my wife and three children. On the few hotel trips we've taken as a family, we've found that we need two rooms because fire codes or hotel management cap per-room occupancy at 4. Makes for a $500 a night trip including automotive costs, hotel, and restaurant charges -- even with fairly modest hotels and restaurants.

We have averaged around 20 nights a year in our RVs over five years. I don't think we're paying more than we would have for motels and restaurants, all things considered.

One of the tradeoffs not mentioned is that, while there's a good deal of overlap, there are some destinations where an RV works but there are no hotels (e.g. remote areas) and others where there are hotels but an RV is not practical (e.g. some densely populated areas and far-away destinations where airline travel is most sensible).

[AnnArborBob]

Amen, Jammer!

[Craig Schrader]

A apples to apples comparison is almost impossible. We each have our on tastes and comfort zones. Boon docking vs private campground costs. Restaurants vs home cooked meals. Fuel mileage debates, every vehicle and load are different. There is no right or wrong here, just what each individual enjoys. Amen! I was just giving my opinion on what a perspective airstream purchaser could expect from those of us that have owned our rigs for five or more years.

[Panama Red]

I was hoping this would turn into a "Morning vs. Evening Shower Debate" thread... Darn!

Great post Jammer! I really liked what one person said about each style of camper having their own issues, so they stay with their Airstream. We've camped in everything from an OLD 60's pop-up that I bought for $200 and refurbed, to a 37 foot Class A diesel pusher with all the bells and whistles, (and literally everything in between) and each of them had their own quirks and maintenance issues. All of them leak at some point or another, and all of them, except the pop-up, have had me sitting on the side of the road for one reason or another... That's camping!

Love my Airstream! Since getting her back on the road, maintenance has been about on par with everything else I've owned. It tows better than the square boxes I've had. I get 10 mpg towing at 55. And I love the community we have here on the forum, and in the campgrounds. It's fun to run into other Streamers and meet someone else with the same passion I have for a stupid aluminum camper...

-Red, Airstream fanboy...

[Bill M.]

We started Airstreaming 8 years ago. We knew absolutely nothing. The one thing we did right was to join the local WBCCI group and go to some luncheons and rallies. That put us in touch with people who have been there-done that and gave us confidence that we could actually do it.

[PharmGeek]

I'm 1 year in as a totally RV newB

No big surprises for me

I'm pretty sure I asked enough questions for 2 years give or take on this forum to cover most things - and this saved me a lot of would be headaches!

Booking sites has proven a tad annoying for me - it just requires booking in advance - sometimes FAR in advance! I did not fully imagine just how popular RV'ing is!

We are having a blast and looking forward to year #2

We are full time working parents and look forward to one day more leisurely lengthy trips......it'll be a while


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[Rocinante]

After a couple of years with an RV (first a B+ MoHo and then our AS), I'd suggest not getting into it to "save money." Get into it because you love the experience. Maybe you've rented a couple of RVs and had an incredible time. Maybe you've camped with friends who have one and noticed how much more fun it is to camp in comfort.

However, if my primary justification for getting into *any* RV had been to save money, I would thus far have been (1) greatly disappointed and (2) missing the whole point. Instead, I'm (1) happy and (2) enjoying every minute in our RV, even though we don't get as many of those minutes as we would like.

So, whenever someone approached me to ask whether I was saving money this way, which happened when we were driving our B+ MoHo, my answer was, "Absolutely not, but we're having a wonderful time!"

With the AS I never get the saving money question...I get a different one... "Wow, what a beautiful trailer, do they still make those and how much did it cost?"

Then I throw them off their "wow, he must be rich" assumption by telling them they get to decide how much to spend on an AS and how much work they're willing to do to make it theirs, because AS has been building trailers continuously for 80 years and still makes them today. Then I suggest they visit Airforums.com to begin their research.

[dbj216]

I think one thing I overlooked when joining the Airstream community 10 years ago was the adjustment needed in driving habits while towing. I was nervous at first. I had lots of concerns about getting in and out of that gas station, backing into a campsite between the trees and rocks, taking a wrong exit in a city, trailer sway, wear and tear on the tow vehicle, and forgetting to dead bolt the trailer door. I'm still very cautious in tight curvy mountain driving.

It was mentioned earlier about the excitement of forgetting the hitch pin. My son had a trailer rental yard drop a 2 5/16 coupler on his 2" ball with very exciting results at 60mph. Safety chains work! It's easy to make a human error in conventional towing.

I'm now comfortable hooking up and towing, but it took me a while. I just didn't have much experience with it. Newbies need to practice conventional towing in my view.

Conventional trailer towing is probably the most difficult method of RVing. Fivers and motorhomes are easier to maneuver, which is a selling point.

The challenges of towing a conventional trailer is maybe one thing people overlook in the showroom.

David

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by dbj216

I'm now comfortable hooking up and towing, but it took me a while. I just didn't have much experience with it. Newbies need to practice conventional towing in my view.

Shopping mall parking lots early in the morning before any of the stores open are a great place to practice towing.

[AnnArborBob]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Shopping mall parking lots early in the morning before any of the stores open are a great place to practice towing.

When we first got the Airstream, I spent four hours practicing in a high school parking lot on a Sunday morning and it was time very well spent! I was able to get a very good sense of the dynamics of backing up with no pressure and no obstructions that I could hit. I never realized what a challenge it would be to simply back up in a straight line, much less getting the trailer to turn where I wanted it to go! After having backed into dozens and dozens of campsites since, I'm still far from an expert but I am not nervous.

[Panama Red]

After years of the boat ramp, the camper was no trouble at all...

-Red, practicing backing whilst also fishing....

[Gnorts]

Originally Posted by Silvery Moon

...if my primary justification for getting into *any* RV had been to save money, I would thus far have been (1) greatly disappointed and (2) missing the whole point. Instead, I'm (1) happy and (2) enjoying every minute...

Exact A Mundo.

We're talking about leisure here. Expendable income, "frivolously" spent.

As a lifetime boater, I know: There's no good reason to buy a boat. And yet, as soon as the economy starts to pick up, folks are always ready to throw their money away on a boat. Or an Airstream. Because they can. Because they want to.

Buying the AS and the Tundra took a sizable chunk out of our retirement funds, but how much would we have spent on a cabin on the Oregon Coast, or in the San Juan Islands? More, just for the down payment! And then, we'd be stuck going to the same place time after time, working on the place, paying property taxes, blah blah. Are we saving money by towing our house behind our humongous truck? I actually have no idea. Who cares?

And how much we spend a day when we travel is just so variable. When I was motorcycle touring, I'd spend $25 a day on fuel, and $100 a night for a motel. A friend would spend $100 a day on fuel and $25 a night to park her RV.

I started towing a sailboat with a '65 Chevy van right after college, and spent a couple of years towing a '71 18ft Caravel about 25K miles - once around the planet - when I sold my business back in the 90's. So I'm no newcomer to the realities of towing. It's all new to my wife, and she's lovin' it! We depart for the SW in early February and will live in our 27FB until late April, then home to watch the garden come to life, then off again in June for the WBCCI rally in Farmington, NM - full timing again for about a month - then home briefly, then off on our boat in the San Juans for about a month or six weeks of living aboard. That takes us through Labor Day. We're already starting to plan for 2016! We'll probably head for the SW a month earlier then.

We're retired. We worked hard and lived beneath our means and built our savings. Now we can afford to do what we want, and we're doin' it!

[Dave-Nancy]

One issue we face is that we like to travel to some fairly "high-end," locations. For example, Carmel-Monterey, CA, where condo-cottage costs are between $160-250-plus per night, or Sisters, OR, where condos-cabins are about the same. Campsites run $35-70 per night for full hook-ups. We went to both of these favorite locations twice each last year, for a total of 30-days each. We also took similar area trips for 5-7 days each.

Being conservative, I figure that we pay about $1,300 less in cash for the 2-week trips and $700-average less for the shorter ones, post-AS purchase. Rough calculations put us at $4,000 under what we would normally spend without the AS, per year. Note: we always try to cook our own meals, wherever we stay, except a couple of special lunches or breakfast each week or trip. Also, we never stay in a cheap motel, or one with no kitchen, when traveling by air or car, non-AS.

We calculate that the AS, if kept for at least 10-years and we travel as seldom as we do, we are spending about $2,000 in today's dollars more by using it rather than staying in rented properties. That's amortizing the FC-19 AS over 10-years, not accounting for resale value. And, including adding 30% to the gasoline bills and the $900 RV storage costs. If we travel more often, the numbers should get better.

This is a good exercise ... It forced me to do some actual thinking, even in retirement!

While on the road we are not spending as much to keep our home livable, which I have not calculated in, here.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Is habit memory?, if so I’m good.

I know what I now know now but I can’t remember whether I knew it five years ago or not.

“Education is what other people do to you, learning is what you do to yourself”

Bob