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Old 12-02-2019, 05:21 PM   #21
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okay - that's one mystery for your readers solved -(tsk)- it is a rear bath.

Give us photos No, no, of the trailer interior!

Looking at the PDF sent to you - item 9 on rear bath diagram, that's your bathtub drain. With about nine feet of 2" pipe the plumbing can hold 1.25 gallons before it peeks out into the bathtub.

Rules? What rules! Grey water was drain to waste, it was at the discretion of the owner/user when/where to drain, and pride and civility kept it out of public view...

One thing I'd like you to check is whether the 1-1/2" black plastic vent pipes actually exit the interior/exterior roof shell panels - they should be clamped so they stand two-ish inches above roof and hidden by the cast aluminum covers. And while you're at it, spy down from above to see if the rubber gasket is intact and the aluminum vent stack 'weep' drain hole is clear, that is to keep hidden moisture from gaining access inside your living area...

(cough) I discovered on my project trailer the bathroom vent pipe had slumped eons before and was just pointing in the general direction of the outlet (gross), so anyhow, just a public safety infoblurb that'd be wantonly antisocial of me to conceal...
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Old 12-02-2019, 06:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happyjoemay View Post
Are the rest of my assumptions correct:
The sinks and tub DO NOT flow in to the black water tank?
The sinks and tub were intended to be allowed to flow directly out to the ground or into a sewer dain?
I have to always have a portable tank hooked up to my Sovereign to appropriately contain my gray water?
I fully comprehend the lack of a gray water tank, it's the rest of the story that eludes me.
Thanks GeocamperAS for your swift reply.

The sink drains and the shower drain meet up with each other somewhere before the valve (#1 in your pictures). My understanding is prior to 1970 a gray tank was an option. That seemed to carry on for a few years. My 1974 had a gray tank for sinks and tub but my 1978 had a gray tank for sinks only. Tub had to drain onto the ground.
So draining onto the ground was acceptable back then. Currently, draining onto the ground is frowned upon in most areas but you could check with your local municipality.
Some campers have had and still have combined gray/black tank. Yours does not. So you have 4 options. 1 Drain onto the ground if ok in your area. 2 Use your portable tank. 3 Using a drain hose, drain directly into a septic tank. 4. Install a gray tank in the future.
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Old 12-02-2019, 07:30 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happyjoemay View Post
Are the rest of my assumptions correct:
The sinks and tub DO NOT flow in to the black water tank? CORRECT
The sinks and tub were intended to be allowed to flow directly out to the ground or into a sewer dain? CORRECT
I have to always have a portable tank hooked up to my Sovereign to appropriately contain my gray water? CORRECT, or connect to sewer
I fully comprehend the lack of a gray water tank, it's the rest of the story that eludes me.
Thanks GeocamperAS for your swift reply.
My answers are in RED above.

The link to manuals in my prior post would be some good reading for you. 1971, 1972, 1973 had similar plumbing. Those early 1970 manuals showed how to dig a pit for dumping sewerage at the camp site. We would get locked up for that these days.

About 30 years ago I owned a 1973 that did not have a gray tank (my first Airstream). I think that was the last year without one (not sure). Most, if not all, 1972 and every prior year did not have a gray tank.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:28 AM   #24
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Hmmmm, on mine, all waste fluids were going into the black tank. Maybe it was an option, or a later mod? After the rebuild, the black tank became a gray tank, and I installed a composting toilet.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:28 AM   #25
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On AS's folks refer to the sides as 'streetside' and curbside', keeps left/right confusion down in describing where we (usually) rediscover a trailer after its been parked or while towing it.

The 1972 and 1973 rear bath trailers I own have a streetside 4" hole torch-cut in the bumper mount 'C' sectional shaped frame extension where the tank dump drain pipe exits the 'basement'. Your hinged exit flap exiting at the back does not appear stock - maybe in your first locker photo I see a lighter colored area about where the usual chassis exit is found.

Your trailer may* have been changed to a 'Park' style sanitary system where the black tank was removed and a residential straight-through drain system installed to provide 99% trouble-free operation over years of service as a immobile housing unit. Or, Joe Somewhen needed the no-turn-angle piping to accommodate some long term hook-up and the tank is still there but modified.

Remember motion in towing keeps effluent more pliable so likely to better thread the passages that a simple gravity system will never accomplish. Black Hills is not a travel destination, its what happens when there is no potion of motion included in the septic scheme....

Anyhow, looking forward to your next postings
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Old 12-03-2019, 09:46 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by SuzyHomemakr View Post
Hmmmm, on mine, all waste fluids were going into the black tank. Maybe it was an option, or a later mod? After the rebuild, the black tank became a gray tank, and I installed a composting toilet.
Did yours originally have one or two dump valves?

I just looked at the 1973 manuals (that's the trailer I owned). There were two that year. I suppose that year was the year the gray tank was added.

One manual says "the waste water from the sink, shower, bath and shower bypass the waste tank", on page 51.
https://www.airstream.com/wp-content...-manual-53.pdf

The other manual says there are two waste tanks, "the new twin tank system", on page 50.
https://www.airstream.com/wp-content...manual-134.pdf

PS:
The 1972 manuals say the waste water from the sinks and shower bypass the black tank, on page 42.
https://www.airstream.com/wp-content...-manual-52.pdf
and page 47 in this one
https://www.airstream.com/wp-content...manual-133.pdf
So, I suppose that all sewerage combined would have been a modification someone did. I can't imagine doing that, having the possibility of the black water backing up into the tub/shower. YUK!!
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:35 PM   #27
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1972 Sovereign 31 foot rear bath sewer lines

We got this one whipped!
A W Warn validated my final set of theories that have also since been validated by practical use.
I have to have a gray water cart attached or be hooked up to a sewer system or put a cap on the exit hole and allow the water to back flow in to the black water tank.
GeocamperAS is correct with the four options. But the manual does give the back flow into the black water tank option.
Despite reading the manual several times, I only now full comprehend what it was supposed to be explaining. I think it is written with too many assumptions of prior knowledge.
Wabbiteer, yes, somewhere along this Airstreams journey someone decided to turn the drain 90 and mutilate the lower trim? But, I don't think it was with the plan to retire this AS.
Suzyhomemkr, I'm curious if you retained the rear bath in your remodel? All of my bath has to come out. It's a cracked, nasty mess. The toilet works fine but the subfloor is not firm. I do have a touch of the rear separation. Logic tells me to move it to over the axles. I would like to have a bedroom at the back. Plus a middle bath would be more conducive to making sleeping arrangements for others a bit more private.
As I dig into this thing I am finding that much of basics have been updated the fresh and hot water lines are not copper. They have apparently been updated. The PO I bought the trailer from said they had updated the electric. The hot water heater is both gas and electric, not original.
There is one great positive oddity about my Sov. The Magic Chef Oven appears to have never been lit, never used, never even opened, I think. It still has the broiler pan sitting on the rack and the flame tube is still shiny chrome.
Thank you to all for helping me through this. My apologies for my ignorance of so many basics.
Joe May
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:22 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Happyjoemay View Post
Suzyhomemkr, I'm curious if you retained the rear bath in your remodel? All of my bath has to come out. It's a cracked, nasty mess. The toilet works fine but the subfloor is not firm. I do have a touch of the rear separation. Logic tells me to move it to over the axles. I would like to have a bedroom at the back. Plus a middle bath would be more conducive to making sleeping arrangements for others a bit more private.

Joe May
Yes, I turned my trailer into a mid-bath. I was able to do a partial change-out of the sub floor by prying up the C-channel and replacing the plywood. I designed the bed frame to act as a giant spar to firm up the rear end (of the trailer!). With the length difference between your Sov and my ambassador, you might be able to fit in a standard length bed- I had to use the RV length queen mattress. You'll find that in order to keep the fridge where it currently resides, and be able to walk around the end of the bed, the bathroom must be made to an exact size.
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:22 PM   #29
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Our '72 did not have a grey tank when we started. '73's may or may not have had a grey tank. I think that grey tanks were mostly standard starting in '74. We contemplated turning our rear bathroom model to a side bathroom and rear bedroom model, but ended up leaving the bath in the rear due to loss of windows and outside storage (as meager as it already is) if we moved it. It's all in what works for YOU though, Joe.
I'm glad you're out of the weather and warm and safe now! If you still have the original furnace, check it out carefully. I think there can be some leakage of fumes from these.
Do you have beds in your trailer, or were these removed by PO? Ours was a mid twin bed model. We changed it to mid double bed which changed the hallway to the rear bath and the storage/closets in the bedroom area.
There are many threads on renovations: look in the "70's section of these forums for ideas. Many clever people out there!
Good luck and stay happy!

Kay
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Old 12-04-2019, 07:44 PM   #30
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Kay & SuzyHomemkr, the PO of my sovereign had mostly gutted everything with the exception of the galley, bath and the closets on both sides forward of the bath. The refrigerator was gone. They had laid some new flooring. The bath is a mess. It has to come out. I have removed the closets and am at the bathroom now. I really want to move the bath forward. Since there were new floors and nothing in the front of the AS, I was able to clean up the front. I mopped the floors 3 times and then moved my mattress in to the floor under the front windows.
Kay, I take it you found my go fund me and read my story. Thank you. I have been amazed at how God has been watching over me as I lost my home, moved in to the tent and then had a new friend basically fund the Airstream.
I am actually enjoying being homeless.
Thanks y'all.
Joe May
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Old Yesterday, 08:45 AM   #31
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Try goggling "composting toilet DIY". It's pretty simple to make your own. I plunked down nearly $1000 to get a Nature's Head, and wished I hadn't! Using that, and 1" flexible vinyl clear hose for the sink drain greatly simplifies the move to a mid-bath.
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