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Old 04-08-2014, 06:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by truckasaurus View Post
Thinking about it would you even be required to keep brakes on a 2000 lb trailer?
That varies by the state in which it's registered. Some states require trailer brakes on all trailers over 1500 pounds.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:44 AM   #30
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You can remove one battery, both 30# LP tanks, replace with a single 20 pound tank and non-auto changeover regulator, and leave the stainless tank cover off. That will save about a hundred pounds while not affecting the trailer. Off-grid time will suffer slightly, but you don't use many of the LP items. Replace the light bulbs with LEDs to compensate for the missing battery.
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Old 04-08-2014, 06:56 AM   #31
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Actually 16's have 20 lb tanks and one battery standard, However if you could remove 100 pounds of hitch weight it would reduce the stability of a 16.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:34 AM   #32
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Even if you get it below 2000 lbs the placard on the trailer is going to still say the original weight. I think you are sorta jousting with a strawman in this quest.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:51 AM   #33
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Even if you get it below 2000 lbs the placard on the trailer is going to still say the original weight. I think you are sorta jousting with a strawman in this quest.
Make that "windmill" instead of "strawman" and you've just named his trailer. Don Quixote.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:53 AM   #34
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I dragged a 3000 lb boat all over Western Canada, including several trips to Horseshoe Bay, with my 1997 TJ 4L. The new Jeeps are better. The Jeep had an auto trans and the only modification was the addition of a True Cool auto trans cooler. The Jeep performed flawlessly. With the addition of a load equalizing hitch, an auto Trans cooler, and a brake controller, you will be able to tow your Bambi without issue. Of course, you will have to put up with the "you can't tow that with that" folks, but you will most likely not run into them at the trailhead. I would not mess with your Bambi. It just is not necessary. Jim
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:30 AM   #35
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Andy is right.

The only difference between the tow ratings on the 4 door Wrangler vs. the 2 door Wrangler is the wheelbase. Everything else in the drive train is EXACTLY the same.

That's IT.

HOWEVER...

As stated on this forum and in literally THOUSANDS of posts on the Jeep forums, the Pentastar in the Jeep runs UNBELIEVABLY hot. The Pentastar already has a problem in that they run hot enough to burn the valve seats, usually on the driver's side, due to the integrated exhaust manifolds built into the heads. There have been thousands of failures in all of Chrysler's vehicles, but NONE to the extent of the failures of the same engine noted in the Wranglers. That is because these engines run MUCH, MUCH hotter in the Wranglers by design, and this heat just destroys the valve seats. Chrysler has "fixed" the problem several times now with new head designs, but the problem STILL exists...and Chrysler blames it on ridiculous things such as "driver conditions" and "bad gas." Just silly. The Pentastar in even the 2 door JK runs at almost 230 just driving around town, and with the transmission bolted right to this engine, the tranny gets SUPER HOT. Prior to 2012, this was a problem with tranny failures in the Wrangler. In 2012 Chrysler's fix wasn't to address the massively hot engine bay and its effects on the transmission, but they added a small transmission cooler-something that is IMPERATIVE to run on a current Wrangler. People's Jeep transmissions were overheating any time they ran them in 4H. If you tow with a Pentastar'd Jeep, you MUST put on the BIGGEST transmission cooler you can find; the factory one is just barely adequate to cool itself, let alone pulling a trailer. And, take the factory engine cover OFF; all it does is hold massive heat on the engine.

In addition to my Airstream, I also have a 13ft Scamp Deluxe with all oak interior which weighs 2480lbs. I was contemplating a 2dr Wranger JK for pulling the Scamp in areas I didn't want to take my SSR and Airstream. My parents have a 2012 Wrangler JK, and I test-pulled the Scamp with it last summer down here in Louisiana; flat land, upper 90 degrees and 90% humidity out, and the engine fan on the Wrangler NEVER went off; sounded like a locomotive under the hood. Engine temps were in the 240's just driving around town and on the interstate; the hood was hot to the touch. The transmission didn't boil, but the transmission temps were in the 220's!!! BTW, don't trust the dash gauges; they are glorified idiot lights. When that temperature gauge is going over 1/2 (which is common on the Wrangler), it is REALLY hot. Get a bluetooth OBDII adapter from Amazon and download "Torque" for your Android phone; you can customize a plethora of gauges from your car's OBD system and monitor actual temps (and a host of anything imaginable) on your phone; the "Torque" app is free, and you can see how your engine is REALLY running...one of the things that flabbergasted me on the Jeep was that the air intake temperature was nearly 200 degrees!!! This is supposed to be the FRESH AIR entering the air filter...THAT'S how HOT it is under the hood of a Jeep. I installed a Banks cold air intake on my parents' Jeep for Christmas...very nice power gains, sound, but most importantly it dropped those air intake temps considerably, which was the purpose of purchasing it.

I've extensively researched the Jeep Wrangler for towing as well as the Pentastar in general. I'm not saying it's not doable, but I AM saying things should be done to make it work...

Here is a good place to start regarding the Pentastar failures in the Jeeps...prepared for a couple days reading on this thread alone...I think it's up to about 200 pages now of Pentastar failures in the Wrangler:

Update on ticking Pentastar..new head... - Jeep Wrangler Forum

Before you do anything...put the BIGGEST transmission cooler on that thing you can find...take off that engine cover...add some water wetter...and get Torque to monitor just how hot that engine is getting.

For the record, I never did buy a Jeep to tow my Scamp...for the obvious reasons.

Hope this helps!
Jeff
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:48 AM   #36
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Jeepers. I guess I will have a little crow for dinner. (Again) The old inline six is looking pretty good now. Jim
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Old 04-08-2014, 11:52 AM   #37
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Consult the Drag Racers

I can respect the Jeep love, my father has a 2010 JK and I've never seen him love a vehicle so much. We used it to tow our 13' Trillium to New Hampshire for the Nascar race a few years ago.


Check out drag racing forums for tips on lightening vehicles.


My racecar friends can strip an unbelievable amount of weight off of a car.


I'm thinking lexan windows, aluminum floor, no bumper, no spare tire, no carpet, lightweight cabinets, replace fiberglass insulation with lightweight foam, aluminum frame furniture.


Get creative!
The wiring harness in a Camaro weighs something like 40 pounds and for drag racing you only need about 3 wires to run the engine, and 4 for gauges.
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:04 PM   #38
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Dare I say.... Why not sell your new trailer, buy a vintage trailer?!
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Old 04-08-2014, 01:27 PM   #39
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Something else to consider - a big source of the added weight in this Bambi are the pair of panoramic windows, something the owner really likes.

I just helped a friend research and buy a 16' International. Those trailers hold their value incredibly well. Gutting one to get it under 2,000 pounds - loaded with camping gear - not only seems improbable, but will also really hurt resale value.

Hope you can sort out a balance of tow vehicle and trailer that makes you happy.

Tom
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:08 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by ggoat!!! View Post
As stated on this forum and in literally THOUSANDS of posts on the Jeep forums, the Pentastar in the Jeep runs UNBELIEVABLY hot.
...

In 2012 Chrysler's fix wasn't to address the massively hot engine bay and its effects on the transmission, but they added a small transmission cooler-something that is IMPERATIVE to run on a current Wrangler.
I wasn't aware of this. I'll do some reading. I assume the transmission cooler "fix" applies to only the autos, not the manual? I had heard about the ticking problem but when I was reading up on it, the belief was that it was due to bad milling on the head and I had read no reports on it after Chrysler's supposed fix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggoat!!! View Post
And, take the factory engine cover OFF; all it does is hold massive heat on the engine.
I did that on day one. I want to be able to see and access the engine bay, not cover it up with some decorative nonsense (which traps heat).

Thanks for the tip on the OBDII & Torque app, and the air intake info. I will definitely plan on a temp monitor of some sort, towing or not.
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Old 04-16-2014, 05:07 PM   #41
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I would think an engine oil cooler would help. Then, what about a lower temp thermostat or even no thermostat? Last, theold trick of keeping the heater on would add cooling area, at the expense of toasting your toes...
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Old 04-16-2014, 05:19 PM   #42
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I would think an engine oil cooler would help. Then, what about a lower temp thermostat or even no thermostat? Last, theold trick of keeping the heater on would add cooling area, at the expense of toasting your toes...
An external oil cooler (not a transmission oil cooler) would marginally help the engine stay cooler. I'm not aware of any designed for the Wrangler with the Pentastar, but it can't be too difficult to engineer. I'm looking to have one designed for my SSR just for that purpose...to reduce the oil temps (and as such the coolant temps) just a tad.

Regarding a lower temperature thermostat or no thermostat, this is NOT the way to go with modern engines. Modern engines are controlled by several sensors' inputs to the computer, and the computer expects to see certain results; changing the thermostat will make the computer think that the engine isn't up to proper temperature, ruining your timing and air/fuel ratios. Nearly EVERYTHING on a modern engine is computer controlled; you can't fool it without a proper tune.

Taking the thermostat OUT is the worst thing you can do, especially with a vehicle that has limited cooling available due to a compromised radiator. If you run without a thermostat, the coolant NEVER has a chance to SIT in the radiator and cool by airflow as it is always circulating. A lot of people forget that when a thermostat closes, the coolant that is in the radiator just sits there and cools. Then, when the thermostat opens, that cooled coolant circulates in the engine pulling more heat off of it. If the coolant NEVER gets the chance to cool adequately in the radiator without a thermostat, then you are at the mercy of the absolute limit of the cooling system; once you hit the breaking point there is no turning back.

Back in the day you could run without a thermostat on engines that ran cooler with less emissions equipment, less timing, and BIG cooling systems. Nowadays engines are designed to run hotter to reduce emissions; also, running TOO cool will not let the moisture in the oil evaporate which can destroy an engine.
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