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Old 07-21-2016, 01:32 AM   #71
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So we are 65 posts into this discussion and one thing is absolutely certain. We have no idea of the cause of the accident.

We have pages of speculation. Hell, the driver could have hit a moose. We just don't know.

The assumption is that the additional weight aft contributed to the accident. What about the 10 other roll-overs that did not have a "box"?

I'm thinking we have a bunch of monday-morning forensic engineers with unproven theories.

Sorry, I suspect I'll be blasted for this opinion. I'll put my firesuit on.....
Dan, I know you will. There could've been a million things. Being in this forum, you can sense who those are.

It is very easy to play the speculation game. I would rather deal with facts.

I pray everyone is safe, and I hope no one will ever experience this.
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Old 07-21-2016, 01:46 AM   #72
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Hi, we can only guess and make our own conclusions about how an Airstream accident happened. But if it makes sense to us that the accident happened because of a heavy box mounted on the back of the trailer and a tire failure to set it off, caused it, it might help others to not make the same mistake. I think, [my opinion] that most people here on this forum agree that it is not a good idea to put large heavy things on the back of their Airstream. And others will gravitate towards a high dollar hitch. Speculating the cause does no harm and might save someone on this forum from having a bad accident their selves.

So I think it is alright for all of those involved to try and figure out why this accident happened. And not be criticized for expressing their opinions.
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Old 07-21-2016, 04:48 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
. . .
Speculating the cause does no harm and might save someone on this forum from having a bad accident their selves.

So I think it is alright for all of those involved to try and figure out why this accident happened. And not be criticized for expressing their opinions.
Well said, Bob, thanks.

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Old 07-21-2016, 06:40 AM   #74
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The problem with "expressing our opinions" on the interwebs is that they quickly become "facts".

Look at the rear of the trailer. It's all crumbled. Look at the video. Skid marks are present. It's obvious that a semi wasn't paying attention and rear-ended them and then took off. It pushed them so hard the tires flattened and blew out.

Yea, that's it..... and no one has mentioned has mentioned the custom car wheels on the trailer. Those obviously were not up to the task. Probably Chinese.

And a jeep? Everyone knows it's unsafe to tow with a short wheelbase vehicle that's under-powered and has no brake controller.

I think his skylight might have been open also.

I think your are seeing my point. ANYTHING might have caused the accident. The box may have had absolutely nothing to do with it.

We simply do not know and "speculation" and blanket statements about rear loading may or may not be applicable.
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Old 07-21-2016, 07:10 AM   #75
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Hi Dan

Just to help others not to make the same mistakes there are several factors here that are not speculation at all.

The Airstream is a 2007 25' Classic. A very nice unit but designed with much lighter hitch weight than the current 25' Models. Not too light but certainly not enough to compensate for the weight added to the rear of the unit with the Komo Carriers. I am familiar with these carriers and I would never add one to the back of an Airstream. The addition of the carrier definitely affected the stability no question. The Airstream could have easily lost control no matter what the tow vehicle was.

However the Jeep's main focus is a soft ride and off road capability, highway stability is a lower priority in its suspension tuning and tire selection. The hitch they were using placed the ball far behind the rear bumper of the Jeep exaggerating the effect of the rear overhang to wheelbase ratio this was combined with the softer large tires on the Jeep would have given it very little control as well. Normally the hitch system they were using would have bent the receiver on the Jeep causing it to stop transferring weight properly but with the light hitch weight on the Airstream that was not likely an issue.

You can tow a 25' or longer Airstream with a Jeep and many do for many miles but you need to do everything correctly you cannot just toss it together, and certainly not do things that will make the Airstream dramatically less stable.

I hope this helps.

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Old 07-21-2016, 07:15 AM   #76
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Thank you Andy for your expert advice and contributions to many threads here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew T View Post
. . .
. . . and certainly not do things that will make the Airstream dramatically less stable. [emphasis added]
. . .


Regarding this forum's purpose and the posting of informed speculation, IMO Bob said it best:


Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
. . .
Speculating the cause does no harm and might save someone on this forum from having a bad accident their selves.
. . .
Pretty simple adult considerateness, in the face of clear and blatant disregard of Airstream's design parameters, which puts everyone on the road at extreme risk, IMO.

No one has said for sure that the large grey box caused the crash, but simply that it was a known risk factor which should not have been there. If the Jeep/AS rig had been on private property, perhaps a test track, and had been experimenting with loading at the time, that would be appropriate probably.

On a public road at highway speeds?

Reckless endangerment . . . IMO.


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Old 07-21-2016, 07:25 AM   #77
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An all too common occurrence......

.......the rig was unsafe.

Very fortunate there were no serious injuries.

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Old 07-21-2016, 07:48 AM   #78
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First off, I don't disagree that the setup was poor and the box was a bad decision.

I am simply saying that we are completely grasping at straws as to what happened. Unless I missed it, the news report does not indicate ANY cause.

For all we know, it may have been an unavoidable situation caused by an outside force. Until the police report is made public, I won't be sure about anything.
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Old 07-21-2016, 07:54 AM   #79
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"You can tow a 25' or longer Airstream with a Jeep and many do for many miles but you need to do everything correctly you cannot just toss it together, and certainly not do things that will make the Airstream dramatically less stable."

Andrew, What do YOU recommend for modifications to a JGC to make it an exceptable and safe tow vehicle? I am asking because I tow with a 2011 JGC Overlander With 5.7 Hemi.
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Old 07-21-2016, 08:45 AM   #80
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First off, I don't disagree that the setup was poor and the box was a bad decision.

I am simply saying that we are completely grasping at straws as to what happened. Unless I missed it, the news report does not indicate ANY cause.

For all we know, it may have been an unavoidable situation caused by an outside force. Until the police report is made public, I won't be sure about anything.
Isn't it obvious that any rational human being would agree with you?

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Old 07-21-2016, 10:04 AM   #81
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I will just say it.

The press reports the accident was caused by sway, and I will say that the big box hanging off the back of the trailer was a major contributor to the accident.

Ultimately the owner/driver is responsible for driving the combination beyond (faster than) its safe limits.

There is no way that the driver did not know that the vehicle was squirmy the very first time he approached highway speeds.

And make no mistake, without one of the two available premium hitches available, with that giant pendulum weight on the trailer that combination was squirrelly from square one.


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Old 07-21-2016, 11:47 AM   #82
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I will just say it.

The press reports the accident was caused by sway, and I will say that the big box hanging off the back of the trailer was a major contributor to the accident.

Ultimately the owner/driver is responsible for driving the combination beyond (faster than) its safe limits.

There is no way that the driver did not know that the vehicle was squirmy the very first time he approached highway speeds.

And make no mistake, without one of the two available premium hitches available, with that giant pendulum weight on the trailer that combination was squirrelly from square one.


Gradiens super tenui glacie.

I don't know for certain - but I can't imagine even a VPP hitch would overcome something like that "shed" on the back of a trailer.
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Old 07-21-2016, 11:55 AM   #83
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-- snip -- Andrew, What do YOU recommend for modifications to a JGC to make it an exceptable and safe tow vehicle? I am asking because I tow with a 2011 JGC Overlander With 5.7 Hemi.

AW - a thought - looks like the JGC may have 265/60R18 tires fitted. It appears that LT255/65R18 are similar in diameter. Would appreciate your thoughts and those of Andrew on the value of going to LT tires for the SUV towing application. Also, any thoughts on the stiffer side wall run flat tires. This is a bit of a hijack, but an important element of consideration to achieve stability. Appreciate your input. Pat
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Old 07-21-2016, 12:06 PM   #84
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There is an active thread on that topic:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...le-146333.html

And these sub-forums:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238/
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463/

And PLENTY of tire threads!

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