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OTRA15 · 07-20-2016, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toutsi 1957

There was a grey box installed on the back of the Airstream standing on the black structure shown on some pictures. It looks like the weight of the box was seriously reducing the load on the ball which caused the sway of the rig and the lost of control. The load of the trailer on the towing vehicle must always be around 10% of the weight of the trailer. It is a safety advice.

Thanks do you know the driver, and is everyone OK?

PaulnGina · 07-20-2016, 08:55 AM

First and foremost, I hope the occupants are all ok. From the pictures and video provided, I think they are lucky to be alive.

After the human aspect, I'm sad to see a nice vehicle and AS in such condition.

Regardless of cause of the accident (driver, another vehicle, traffic, tires, presence or lack thereof of a Hensley/PP hitch, weight on the rear bumper, tires, etc.), I just wish that these folks would have had someone in their midst that would have told them that any added weight on the rear bumper is a bad idea. Especially that huge box, no matter what it had or didn't have in it.

Safe travels, everyone!!!!

PaulnGina
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke

Blessed and highly favored

Wingeezer · 07-20-2016, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulnGina

First and foremost, I hope the occupants are all ok. From the pictures and video provided, I think they are lucky to be alive.

After the human aspect, I'm sad to see a nice vehicle and AS in such condition.

Regardless of cause of the accident (driver, another vehicle, traffic, tires, presence or lack thereof of a Hensley/PP hitch, weight on the rear bumper, tires, etc.), I just wish that these folks would have had someone in their midst that would have told them that any added weight on the rear bumper is a bad idea. Especially that huge box, no matter what it had or didn't have in it.

Safe travels, everyone!!!!

PaulnGina
1987 Avion 34W
1995 Ford F250 7.3L PowerStroke

Blessed and highly favored

Good point - no matter whether that was a major factor or not in this case - we certainly do get valuable info and advice from many helpful people on this forum.

No 100% guarantee everyone's best intended advice is correct, but when the preponderance of people provide similar advice, I think that the value of paig attention increases!

It is due to collective wisdom from this forum that I have removed
the 2" receiver that came with my Classic 30, and why I use TPMS, switched to 16" rims and LT tires, bought a Hensley added centramatics, Maxim skylights etc!

Brian.

J. Morgan · 07-20-2016, 09:58 AM

There is a very fine line where weight behind the rear axles on these trailers becomes a serious hazard.

A little here and a little there can induce major problems, a lot at once as in the use of a giant box likely loaded with crap is an accident waiting to happen.

There is no way that the driver should not have realized that his setup was unsafe the first time he hit 55 mph.

This is when he should have driven back home and reevaluated his setup.

Gradiens super tenui glacie.

Papa smurf · 07-20-2016, 10:02 AM

From google map this is likely the ramp you see on the video on the right hand side.

PKI · 07-20-2016, 10:44 AM

After reviewing the video it looks quite likely that the box was bolted there. The rear brackets would not have been configured as they are if that was not the case. Good eyes Otra! Pat

mandolindave · 07-20-2016, 11:01 AM

A State Trooper gave a lecture on driving ( not towing ) safety. He said that sometimes there are a few contributing factors that cause a mishap.

Factors included, weather, speed, darkness, tire condition, a sneeze, a passing truck, diminished reaction time due to fatigue, an aggressive driver…etc.

With each additional factor, chances of a mishap increase. He said that you may never have a problem with just one problem factor. ( I think he meant speeding, or drinking alcohol )

Anyway…I " think ", that towing has some problem factors, added to the list. I'll leave it at that so as not to ruffle any feathers.

OTRA15 · 07-20-2016, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKI

After reviewing the video it looks quite likely that the box was bolted there. The rear brackets would not have been configured as they are if that was not the case. Good eyes Otra! Pat

Thanks Pat. Wonder if those who called this thread a "silly game" etc. are recognizing its usefulness? Hopefully the new poster "Toutsie 1957" will get back to us about the family's condition, if he or she knows . . .

Air Forums is an incredible resource when you put so many minds to work on the same issues.

J. Morgan · 07-20-2016, 11:44 AM

FWIW, I have practically derived that when there is too much weight far aft of the axles in an Airstream, adding weight to the tongue, to 10%, 15%, 20%, and even more will in no way restore stability from sway.

Gradiens super tenui glacie.

DavidsonOverlander · 07-20-2016, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTRA15

One of the reporters has advised via email that he did not have any further information from the police about the driver's experience, or the original location of the grey box. Their Facebook page apparently has comments about the size of the tow vehicle etc., in case anyone wants to check there. I assume it is in French, but never joined FarceBook.

Stay safe . . .

FB link on this page:

http://www.leplacoteux.com/vehicule-...s-capotage-20/

There's nothing new on that Facebook page. It's just a link to the story with a couple of comments (in French) from people who thought the tow vehicle was too small for the trailer.

majorairhead · 07-20-2016, 12:21 PM

I too believe the cargo carrier was affixed to the rear of the AS. The one link to the cargo carrier website states that it has a hinge mechanism allowing it to fold down for access to a rear entry to the vehicle (as in, Jeep, or other other SUV).

It'd be real bad if that cargo carrier was indeed affixed to the rear of that trailer, loaded, and it pivoted downward as a result of a latch failure, while going 65 mph.

Interesting that AS has what appears to be a class 3 hitch on the rear.

Anyway, I'm one who likes to speculate, could have fallen asleep, dropped something on the floor, swerved to avoid a wombat, who knows?

OTRA15 · 07-20-2016, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

FWIW, I have practically derived that when there is too much weight far aft of the axles in an Airstream, adding weight to the tongue, to 10%, 15%, 20%, and even more will in no way restore stability from sway.

Gradiens super tenui glacie.

I agree. That's because the added weight has an effect not only in an up-and-down direction, but also in a lateral left-to-right direction (parallel to the ground), affecting the entire rig from the front of the tow vehicle to the back of the added weight. I believe the term for this is "yaw" -- it is as if the whole rig is an articulated snake, to which one adds a large weight at the rear end -- like adding a weight to the end of a clock's pendulum will change the pattern/frequency of its swing.

Jack Canavara used the term yaw in Post #22 in this sense, I believe.

[Sorry for any imprecision in terminology.]

PS -- Thank you Grant for the update on the Facebook page.

mandolindave · 07-20-2016, 12:48 PM

I agree that having a lot of weight that far back is asking for trouble. The rear hitch might well have been for a previous cargo carrier.

I also suspect a few contributing factors. Perhaps a quick evasive maneuver, or a blow out.

But yeah….Once things get crazy, a smaller tow vehicle isn't going to help matters. I don't think many would argue that a small tow vehicle is a safety feature.

And yeah, a top of the line, or custom hitch, may have helped.

OTRA15 · 07-20-2016, 12:54 PM

Just a reminder that Airstream does not approve of any racks hung off the rear of any AS, except for the Fiamma model, which is designed to carry a maximum of 75 lbs., for a total installed weight of about 92 lbs. +/-. More importantly, this weight is mostly above, or just slightly behind, the rear bumper.

Any weight over 92 pounds, held back further behind the bumper, simply increases the force exerted on the rig exponentially.

https://store.airstream.com/product/...kes-by-fiamma/

http://www.colonialairstream.com/bik...stream-rv.html

http://www.fiammausa.com/products/RV...ies.asp?Fam=A4

mandolindave · 07-20-2016, 01:01 PM

I am surprised that no one mentioned how the emergency vehicle is towing both the Jeep and the Airstream. It's remarkable…IF ?... the two stayed coupled after a roll over.

And that they are towing it that way. ( perhaps, just to move it out of the way )

dkottum · 07-20-2016, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

FWIW, I have practically derived that when there is too much weight far aft of the axles in an Airstream, adding weight to the tongue, to 10%, 15%, 20%, and even more will in no way restore stability from sway.

Gradiens super tenui glacie.

Without guessing the cause of the accident, this is a very important point. An unstable trailer (loaded heavy extreme back and front) may tow okay under ideal conditions and lower speeds, but add one or two less than ideal conditions or a little overspeed and it can suddenly sway out of control. Emphasize suddenly. I've experienced it trailering lumber for our house.