Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-08-2012, 07:35 AM   #43
Rivet Master
 
AWCHIEF's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Biloxi , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,135
Images: 33
Excellant results from your calls to Airstream. I have a feeling it want be long before you are a full fledged card carrying member of the Airstream family.
__________________

__________________
MICHAEL

Do you know what a learning experience is? A learning experience is one of those things that says "You know that thing that you just did? Don't do that."
AWCHIEF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 01:43 PM   #44
2 Rivet Member
 
El Cerrito , California
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
I have just read a thread which IMHO shows a design flaw in the plumbing system of newer AS.

Water Leak Updates

As mentioned above in my the #40 update of this thread, Dan assured me there was a process in place to address issues like what I believe was uncovered in the Water Leak thread. I will call Dan and bring this to his attention and see how this process is engaged, etc. I will keep this thread updated with anything I find out.

Please know, I am not on a witch hunt, I know no design is prefect, no process is prefect. However I know that you can refine and improve processes and in this better designs. IMHO the hot water pressurization leak issue is an over site in design.

Oh and I tried to hold off looking for a newly used.. but I don't think I can wait, so the wife and I are going over options for ordering a new 27FB international... but that is another post
__________________

__________________
bycrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 01:53 PM   #45
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by bycrom View Post

Oh and I tried to hold off looking for a newly used.. but I don't think I can wait, so the wife and I are going over options for ordering a new 27FB international... but that is another post
Bycrom, just to reframe that, would you take $20,000 to be patient and spend some time looking for a several year old one?

Since the duel fuel water heater is a recent and dubious improvement, you would only get a propane one without the air bubble problem.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 02:17 PM   #46
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Gene, you don't have to use the electric function if it's too much trouble, which it's not. Just leave the switch off. We used ours for six months this past year with any trouble. They just seem to run hotter than the propane-only version. We like it, and can use campground power instead of propane to heat the water.

Belongs in the much ado about nothing thread.

doug k
__________________
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 02:37 PM   #47
2 Rivet Member
 
El Cerrito , California
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Bycrom, just to reframe that, would you take $20,000 to be patient and spend some time looking for a several year old one?
Gene
I sure would, but I am not really finding it to be $20k, more like $5k-$10k-ish. Based off...

a) not taking enough time I know
b) the price point I have negotiated my dealer down to on new which I believe still has some room to "sharpen the pencil".

Now again, I am a NOOB, so maybe simply looking at pricing for a 2010 and above newly used from private party with out any negotiation is invalid, I have no idea how far an average private party post is flexible in that regard?

Also there are two other factors for me. Location and wait time, both I can see are impacting my choices. I am not really willing to drive to Florida (I am in Bay Area CA) for a $5k-$10k savings... I would say Texas is my limit. Also I am going to have an RV by next spring, at that time my little girl will be 9 and moving fast towards teenager, and for me it is worth $$$$ to have one more summer vacation with my child... while she still is a child.
__________________
bycrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 02:42 PM   #48
2 Rivet Member
 
El Cerrito , California
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post

Belongs in the much ado about nothing thread.

doug k
Can you clarify? Just want to understand, do you mean that even though running the system in a configured mode will cause leaking and/or damage to plumbing system, it still is not a big deal?

I am honestly asking b/c I know you use/know more about this then me I want to make sure I did not miss what was discussed in the thread I read about this.
__________________
bycrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 02:47 PM   #49
2 Rivet Member
 
El Cerrito , California
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post

Since the duel fuel water heater is a recent and dubious improvement, you would only get a propane one without the air bubble problem.

Gene
Well actually since you ask, I was already planning on the on demand system upgrade first thing, my wife has a bad back and needs hot water, lots of hot water. She prefers baths, but that is hard with modern AS, so long showers will work too in a pinch.
__________________
bycrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 02:47 PM   #50
Rivet Master
 
dkottum's Avatar
 
2012 25' Flying Cloud
Battle Lake , Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,716
Atwood designed the heater to take expansion in the air bubble in the tank. Up to you to maintain that expansion space whether in the tank or a separate expansion device. It has worked for us in six months use, not so for others. I can't speak for them.

doug k
__________________
dkottum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 02:48 PM   #51
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Doug, I thought of suggesting the same thing—leave the electric switch off—but that doesn't solve the original issue. I do not agree it is "much ado about nothing"—if you have the problem and don't know the fix, it isn't nothing. The linked thread and the one before it shows the leaks in Collimare's water system and the frustration it caused. The problem was aggravated by the dealer which did not know what it was doing.

We have a gas only heater, so no problems here. Some people have installed a separate, aftermarket electric function to their gas only heater and plug it into the 20 amp receptacle at the power pedestal and have not reported a problem, so this seems to be specific to the new dual fuel heaters. The electric side of the dual fuel heats the water to a very hot temperature, much hotter than most people seem to have their residential water heaters. Some believe this is dangerous and can cause scalding too easily. I just turn the hot down, but anything over 135˚ (as these seem to be) may be a problem for some people.

There are seem to be a number of fixes as outlined above. That Airstream didn't alert buyers to this is not good. They should have including an insert to the owner's manual until it could be updated, or installed one of the fixes. If they had done that, the water heater problem would not have existed, various threads would not have mentioned it and the company would have fewer unhappy customers.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2012, 02:54 PM   #52
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by bycrom View Post
I sure would, but I am not really finding it to be $20k, more like $5k-$10k-ish.

Also there are two other factors for me. Location and wait time, both I can see are impacting my choices.
I can't argue with location and wait time. Once my wife told me about her Airstream problem and we started investigating it, it took 3 months buy one. We bought new because we thought we'd have fewer problems. Wrong.

I also considered that I didn't know what problems to look for and the warranty was a nice thing to have. If I were to do it again, I'd consider used, but now I know a lot more than I did then.

There are a lot of Airstreams in the west, so when the season is winding down, more may show up on the classifieds. You never know when yours will show up.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 01:13 AM   #53
Rivet Master
 
mstephens's Avatar
 
2013 25' Flying Cloud
Cat City , California
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 854
Anyone ever owned a boat? Doesn't matter how much you paid for it, it will suck money out of your wallet like a magnet. RVs are just boats out of water. They even used to call them "Land Yachts" to make sure all owners understood the nature of their, um, investment.

If financial prudence is on your mind, take your $75K and buy some blue chip stocks, some Hudson Valley paintings, or even gold. RVs are about as prudent as other forms of entertainment.

Cars have been perfected (really!) by gargantuan numbers. What....15 million cars a year built in the US each year? Another 10M in Japan. RVs are build in the hundreds, or maybe a few thousand. And that is spread over a dozen models. So, comparing any RV to even a low end modern sedan as to build quality is unrealistic. You can buy an $18,000 car that won't need maintenance or repair for 75,000 miles! I know, I had one.

An RV is a luxury product. Luxury doesn't mean perfection, it simply means it is bought with money after the rent, school and food has been bought. They aren't investment assets, they are depreciating assets. You're paying for fun and adventure. What's a nice 2 week European vacation cost these days? $15k? That's the "kind" or nature of expense (blowing your wad) you are making when you buy RVs and boats and race cars and dune buggies and dragsters and racing motorcycles and sailboats.

This is not a complaint about AS! It's a reality check about the use of money. If I wanted to "protect" my $60,000 (or for heaven's sake grow it!) a big aluminum box on wheels isn't the right choice of assets. But if I have the $60,000, and I want to PAY to have a huge amount of fun and adventure and fellowship with other campers for the next many years, and I can afford the gas, maintenance, tires, repairs, and yes - even fixing their mistakes - then it is a good way to spend the money.

Certain things and people in life are "high maintenance" (wink, wink) -- you know what I mean? Trailers are just one of those certain things! Buy it, indulge it, love it. You won't regret it.
__________________
mstephens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 06:26 AM   #54
4 Rivet Member
 
2005 28' Safari
saline , Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 408
First, I have to say I have had almost no problems with my 2005 Airstream, so I personally can't complain too much. But I recognize certain quality issues with Airstreams and other RVs. I am also a sailor , currently racing sailboats. I wish all RVs were built as well as yachts. There is really no comparison. Everything in a sailboat is designed for durability and strength. The marine environment is tough and unforgiving and boats have to be built for it or they would fall apart in short order. Go in any marine store and look at things like rigging hardware and other boat stuff. Boat interiors are much better too. The cabinet work and upholstery is hugely better. There are many 30+ year old boats that are still cruising and racing competitively Also, boats depreciate less than RVs. The RV industry could learn a lot from the marine industry about how to build quality in low volume.
__________________
Kosm1o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 11:21 PM   #55
Rivet Master
 
Scott J-24's Avatar
 
2009 27' FB International
Los Angeles , California
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 731
I own, sail, and race J/24 and C-15 sailboats. My J/24 is hull #133 and is 33 years old and still wins more than her share of races against much newer J/24s and against larger and newer PHRF handicapped boats. My C-15 is much newer (only 9 years old) and is equally competitive. The key is to keep up the routine maintenance and fix things BEFORE they break. Those expenses start from the day you buy it (new or used) to the day you sell it. Is a boat a good financial investment? Well as stated in mstepfens post above.... NO. Is it a good "mental health" investment.... (in my opinion) YES. I view our AS in the same way, we will loose money due to deprecation and the expense of maintenance and repairs, but will gain much more than we loose through making new friends, creating great memories and having years of enjoyment and fun adventures. Just my 2 cents for what it is worth...
__________________

__________________
Scott, Becky & Heidi (our standard poodle and travel companion)
WBCCI #1215
Air #54601

Remember... No matter where you go, there you are...

2009 27FB International Ocean Breeze
2010 Toyota Tundra CrewMax, 5.7L V8, 4x4
Scott J-24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.