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11-14-2003, 11:33 AM
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#1
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10
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Need your help!What models/years airstream should be our first?
Hi everyone! I've been lurking and reading lots of posts and I was hoping you could help me and my husband figure out what we're looking for. We want to buy our first airstream between now and spring (hopefully we'll find one by then). We had our first baby in June and we want him to get out to see the world a little next summer. :-)
Any suggestions on what models/years to look for or avoid? What do we look for when we go see one? (We don't have a lot of skill or money for big repairs- so we need something that's usable-- cosmetic work is ok.)
We're looking in the under $10000 range.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Also- if anyone is anywhere near eastern PA and has one to sell, please let us know.
Thanks!!!
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11-14-2003, 11:38 AM
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#2
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The Painted Pig
1979 Argosy Minuet 7.3 Metre
Hailey
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 337
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What vehicle will you be towing with? This can limit your choices quite a bit as many Airstreams are quite heavy although they tow well with the proper tow vehicle.
Scott
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11-14-2003, 11:51 AM
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#3
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10
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oops! we have a Ford F-150 Lariat for towing. :-)
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11-14-2003, 12:03 PM
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#4
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The Painted Pig
1979 Argosy Minuet 7.3 Metre
Hailey
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 337
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Do you know what the truck's tow rating is?
If not, start by determining what the rear axle ratio in your F-150 is. If the rear end is a 3:08 your truck may not tow very well. I seem to recall many of these trucks could only tow around 2,000 lbs.
Trailer Life is a good resource for looking up vehicle tow ratings.
Even with a beefy rear end and strong V-8 motor, half ton pickups like yours and mine probably are better off towing trailers that are under 5,000 lbs so this means many Airstreams that are 26' and longer could be too much for the vehicle.
This is just to get you started. Towing capability can become very detailed for the novice.
Scott
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11-14-2003, 12:11 PM
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#5
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10
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you know, i just happen to know the axle ratio is 3.55. I THINK that when I spoke to someone at Ford when we first bought the truck that they said it could tow around 7000 pounds-- but it's a hazy memory for me as I was thinking about getting a baby in the spring, not a trailer. This towing weight stuff IS complicated, isn't it. Ahh, well...we're learning! Thanks for giving me a place to start...I think we definitely want something under 30 feet anyway. It's just the 3 of us and a hairy dog.
Liz
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11-14-2003, 12:30 PM
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#6
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The Painted Pig
1979 Argosy Minuet 7.3 Metre
Hailey
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 337
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I have a 3:55 in my Dodge pickup. So we don't rehash stuff already covered here check out this thread:
GCVW
and then browse:
Towing
Scott
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11-14-2003, 12:59 PM
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#7
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10
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I'm starting to understand...
Thanks Scott- you've really helped me so much already.
So.. we have a 4.6 liter (am I in trouble here?) with GCWR of 11,500. the manual says max trailer weight of 6600 lbs. Do I need more info, or do I just look for something under the trailer weight? I guess that means I should be looking for a trailer in the 5000-6000 lb range?
does that mean I'm looking at a 22'? or can we go a little bigger?
Liz
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11-14-2003, 01:33 PM
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#8
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Rivet Monster
1975 31' Sovereign
1980 31' Excella II
Sprung Leak
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,172
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Liz,
The 22-25 foot Airsteams will fall into the category you are looking for. Don't foget that you have to include all of your and little Jack's stuff when you are figuring weights Believe me I know how the little guy's stuff adds up . FWIW I wouldn't recomend this to someone who has never towed before, but I do tow my 31' with a F-150 equipped like yours. BUT! I only tow on flat land and for fairly short distances. It handles just fine but you really do notice the hills. You will also need to research weight distributing hitches and brake controllers.
Aaron
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11-14-2003, 01:41 PM
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#9
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Rivet Master
Commercial Member
1968 17' Caravel
2005 30' Safari
Somewhere
, roaming America
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,095
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Look to the vintage trailers
Liz, looks like with your budget you'll be checking into the vintage Airstreams. You can pick up many 1960s, 1970s, and even a few 1980s models under $10k.
Since you are adverse to a lot of fix-up work (and I don't blame you!) I'd consider the seller as much as the trailer. People who use their trailers regularly are more likely to have maintained them. WBCCI members are good risks, IMHO. eBay sellers are a mixed bag. And online brokers often take no responsibility for trailers they list.
Avoid the sellers with trailers that have sat for years who claim they are "ready to go camping!" See the thread "Why why why" on this forum for more info.
Also see "So you want to buy a trailer that is 3 states away" for a list of people who can help you evaluate used trailers.
To find trailers, check airstream.net (classifieds), and this board's "for sale" area. There are many online sources as well which have been documented in other threads on this forum. And an under-appreciated source for leads is the newsletters (or newsletter editors) of WBCCI units. They often know who is selling a real gem before anyone else.
-- RL
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11-14-2003, 01:58 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,486
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Just like me, Airtreams have grown heavier with the passing years. So while you could easily pull a 25' from the 60's, a late model wide body 25' Classic would be a real strain. I have a Sovereign 25' from 1985, and suggest that it would be at the upper end of you pulling capacity, if not over.
A $10,000 budget should get you a very nice unit. Unfortunately, the 25' and under market is always limited. I suggest you use the archives of these forums to educate yourself and then be prepared to travel some distance to find what you want.
There are no particular years that are more or less desirable. There are known issues with every model year and the choice is more a matter of what you want and what you can deal with.
There are no factory grey water tanks on units prior to the early 70's, but the well known blue tote tanks can work just fine. No black water going way back. All coaches prior to the early 90's have suspect plumbing - either due to the passing years, or the use of polybutylene (snap, crackle, and pop!) in the late 70's to eary 90's. Rear end droop and seperation (not the same thing) is a concern of post-grey tank 70's units, and ALL coaches that have had carriers of any kind attached to the bumper or rear end. The disintegration of tambour with the passing years has been dealt with on the forums at length. There was an unfortunate period in the 60's involving aluminum wiring. Any coach can have sagging axles, but replacements are available. Peeling clearcoat has been covered here as well. Of course, the most likely problems are that of appliances that don't work.
Note that this is mostly what CAN cause problems, not what will. Good, well maintained, usable coaches can be had with manufacturing dates going back to the 50s! Start with what you can pull, and then research those model years.
Good luck,
Mark
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11-16-2003, 11:29 AM
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#11
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10
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thanks!
I want to sincerely thank everyone who responded. Your expertise really helps!! It looks like something under 25 feet from the 60's- 70's.
And Mark- thanks for all of the stuff to look out for!
Now we just have to find it... I know it's out there!
;-) Liz
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11-16-2003, 03:27 PM
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#12
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2 Rivet Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 36
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I previously owned a 1981 Excella II, 31 ft., center twin, rear bath and the gross on that unit was 7100 lbs.
We pulled it easily and got 11 mpg using a 1999 Chevrolet Z-71, 5.3 V8, and a 3.73 axle.
We now tow a 1988 Excella 1000, 32 ft. rear twin, center bath, with the same truck. Gross is 8300 lb on this trailer but we can't tell any difference in performance.
The combination weighs 12, 860 lbs., with the weight distribution between the front and rear truck axles being only 60 lbs. different (this is fully laden with full fuel, 14 tank of fresh water and empty holding tanks, two people and 1 small dog).
A 1/2 ton will do the job if you want it to!
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11-19-2003, 06:12 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
Lisle
, Illinois
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,270
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Wowsers. I guess that my '93 Chevey Caprice will not be up to the job of pulling a A/S. That is ok, if the one I'm looking at comes home, it will be a couple of years till it will move again anyway.....
__________________
Tedd Ill
AIR#3788 TAC IL-10
No trailers...
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11-19-2003, 06:38 PM
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#14
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New Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4
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My wife and I have a 31ft Sovereign that we bought this summer. I cost 4500 and have done about 800 in repairs. I pull it with a 2003 Ford F-150 with tow package. The AS weights about 6200 lbs. We have been out about 5 times and have had no problems pulling it. Our last trip was to Big South Fork, TN, which has 13 degree two lane road leading into it. We took it with ease. The AS has plenty of room and all the comforts you want. The rear bath models (like ours) have a problem with tail droop but ours was already repaired. If they are not it can cost a good bit.
Good luck and shop around.
Ron & Vicki
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11-20-2003, 01:48 AM
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#15
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4 Rivet Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 307
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The official towing capacity is a guide, not an absolute rule. It may be too low, or too high. A lot depends on your circumstances.
Where will you tow it - in the mountains?
How often? Empty or not?
It is not really the engine you need for towing these things but also suspension, axle ratio, auxillary transmission cooler which you typically get with "towing package".
My #1 concern would be your transmission. Non-heavy duty tranny tend to overheat and die under heavy load. No personal experience with that, but that's what I hear. Your 4.6L will likely struggle in the mountains with 3.55 ratio. 351W engine is better for that purpose and 460 is better still but they are both quite thirsty. Think 13 and 11 mpg, respectively. Maybe you can get away with 351W, judging by the grtaph in "Ford towing guide for 1990", it is almost as powerful as 460, which explains why it is thirsty.
Then you also must have long 8ft bed as a necessity.
I like 30+ A/S. But it is obvious smaller ones are less stress on your vehicle.
I think if I were in your position, I would trade your truck for something else, a 3/4 ton truck with a bigger motor and 4.10 rear. Then size is not a restriction. Depending on how much you need to do to your truck, maybe you can get away with installing 4.10 rear. But then if you *want* a 25', then that makes things much easier, keep what you got.
I knew when I was looking for mine, I wanted something between 30 and 34' and in the end got 32', but I almost got 34' a couple of times.
__________________
Justice - When you get what you deserve. Mercy - When you don't get what you deserve
Grace - When you get what you don't deserve
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11-20-2003, 08:10 AM
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#16
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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Similar Demographics....
We had our first this year, too...and his name is Jack, too! He was born in April, so we did manage to get him out and about this year. he loved it!
I also have a 1/2 ton Pickup w/ a 3.55 rear end, a Dodge with the 5.2L (318ci) engine. Our A/S is a 73 23', max gross is 5500lbs. I don't really know exactly what it weighs as we've used it, but even though the truck is rated for 7200lbs, it feels pokey in the mountains, for sure. But its very do-able.
I'd have preferred a 25 footer, but this one appeared for sale not too far away from us, was in really good shape, and the seller wanted 6k for it. w/ a new fridge, awnings all around, a/c, and everything in fairly decent working order, I decided to grab it. Of course, there were only 2 of us then...but we fared quite nicely last summer w/ our Jack and all his gear.
I figure I've probably spent another 1k, give or take a few bucks on it....mostly nickle and dime stuff. anyway, the point is that your proposal of camping w/ a baby in a nice airstream that you can pull w/ your half-ton for under 10k is quite do-able. Oh, and keep in mind, they added grey tanks to trailers this size in 1974. Older than that, and you'll need a portable tote-tank....
Here's me, Jack(2.5 months), and the Airstream in July of this year.
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11-21-2003, 06:40 PM
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#17
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1 Rivet Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10
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Hmmmm...
We definitely love the mountains (especially along the Blue Ridge Parkway!). We do have the towing package on the f-150 with the super-cooled transmission and other goodies, but it sounds from people here that the 31 is pushing it with our 4.6 engine.
We can't really trade vehicles yet as I'm staying home with Jack--(no income). Would a 27' be too much for our little engine in the mountains?
(Hey Chuck- your Jack is very cute! I fear we may need to get another tow vehicle just for our Jack as he's 5 1/2 months now and already 21 pounds! :-) )
I love the idea of a 31', but having never towed anything besides a U-Haul, we're a little intimidated....
Liz, Dennis & Big Jack
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11-21-2003, 08:58 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,486
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You need to determine the CGWR of your truck. You say that is 11,500. That is the maximum load your truck is designed to carry, haul, contain, or any combination thereof. Subtract the weight of the empty truck including the hitch you will be needing - go to a truck scale if necessary, but say it is somewhere around 5,000 lbs. Subtract also that number the occupants, and whatever tools, gear, firewood, etc. you carry - maybe 500 lbs. The remaining number will be the maximum you can pull behind - probably going to be not more than 6,000 lbs. For towing ease, and better tow vehicle life it is often said to tow only 80% of that figure. That would be 4,800 lbs.
Armed with that information, go to http://www.airstream.com/airstream/p.../weights-1.pdf to see the table of weights of (nearly) all Airstream models these last 50 years. These numbers are known to have some errors, but should give you a good base line figure. Remember also that they are for a factory new, empty coach with no fluids and no options. Those granite countertops and the awnings over every window added by the owner of the used coach you are looking at will add considerably. So will all the "stuff" you will want to carry on your travels.
Your budget dictates units made before 1990 or so. Lets take a 1983 Sovereign International 27'. Supposedly 4230 lbs. empty weight. If nothing much has been added to it, you might be able to hit the road something just under 5,000 lbs. Arguably do-able., but I'd want to put the coach on a scale before I bought.
Please note I have made a lot of assumptions here. I'm just trying to walk you throught the process. Information is the key - and it is up to you to get it!
Good luck,
Mark
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11-21-2003, 10:20 PM
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#19
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The Painted Pig
1979 Argosy Minuet 7.3 Metre
Hailey
, Idaho
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 337
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Liz,
You also should ask yourself what type of camping you'll be doing. For us it's mostly weekends or three-day weekend trips. We do take a one week trip once a year, but that's about it.
For us a 24' coach is just right. I feel it's causing no harm to my half ton pickup and I can go anywhere and when I get there the four of us are comfortable for the length of our stay.
If I were staying longer and traveling more I'd probably want something with more storage and room. And maybe when our kids get older I may want something bigger, but I'll weigh that when the time comes. Or it might be best to put them in pup tents outside!
I agree with Mark. You should weigh any Airstream before buying (especially if it is 26' or greater) because even the stated weights at airstream.com could be incorrect.
Wouldn't it be great if you could try out a camper for a night or two before buying? I'll bet if you find the right seller and pay them a little for the experience they'd let you do just that if you asked.
Here's a good way to spend some time. Go to Vintage Airstreams and check out the various floor plans and models. I'm sure this will help you get a list going of favorite models and floorplans to look out for.
Good luck!
Scott
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11-24-2003, 08:51 AM
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#20
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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Quote:
I fear we may need to get another tow vehicle just for our Jack as he's 5 1/2 months now and already 21 pounds!
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Yep, ours too. just weighed in a couple of weeks ago, @ just shy of 7 months:21lbs/9oz.
gonna have to think about upgrading to a 3/4 ton before long!
keep an eye on the weights chart...think "60's-early 70's", and I'm sure you'll find something that'll work. At a recent rally, we met a couple w/ a 65 26-footer in super condition. It seemed like it would be very comfortable...even had a bunk bed! They pull it w/ a Buick Roadmaster wagon. Of course, no grey tank on a model that old, but there's always some sort of trade-off, I suppose. You can always retrofit a tank, too.
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