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Old 04-21-2019, 04:17 PM   #61
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Just brought our LV back from 2400 mile round trip spring break vacation in FL. We love it. More info posted on other rv forum. Pics for attention.

Love it. I would like to know if you are willing to discuss things you like about it and things you do not like.

I am considering selling my 2016 Classic and getting an LV.

I am coming up with a pro's vs con's list. Some obvious ones are Airstream classic curved shape (extremely attractive) versus a big rectangle. I know ATC makes good trailers, so the LV should do well in that regard. Although it is attractive, the AS still has it beat on exterior looks.

Of course if you like to camp in more varied temperatures, the LV is going to destroy the Airstream. Dual pane windows, an actual basement and insulation. And the quality on the LV looks like it blows AS out of the water.

The biggest thing for me though is the loss of the wrap around panoramic and vista view windows. That adds SO much to the Airstream experience. I wonder if in the LV you could get two side windows added in the rear dinette area to increase the views for an extra fee? (and remove the inset-TV).

The shower in the LV is killer. Although the toilet/sink area in my Classic is very nice, the shower leaves much to be desired. And of course those sliding glass doors and drop down deck, what a sweet design choice.

And the LV has huge storage tanks for boondocking... like twice as big as on my classic! I'd like to see more lithium/solar capacity on the LV though as it looks currently to still have quite a reliance on propane. As far as I know, no way to get hot water without propane, and the forced air heater is also only propane? (I know the Air conditioner unit has a heat strip). Hydronic heating would be amazing option in the LV.

The ceiling height in the LV doesn't seem to be anymore than my classic, both at 6'8" (I am 6'4" tall so a huge concern). I'm glad an off-road package for the LV is now available, as the original is too low for where I'd want to take it.

I think someone mentioned no disc brakes, hopefully that can be made an option. I wish they would also have an option for a larger freezer. That 7cu foot Dometic has a pretty small freeze. If anyone has boondocked or sailed quite a bit, you know freezer space is valuable. I'd hate to have to get a portable freezer. Speaking of the Dometic, I notice there is a vent on the roof for the ammonia cooling circuit. Is there an entrance vent in the trailer somewhere to draw air in? Usually refrigerators are against the wall for this reason. I'm just curious how this was engineered, or is it just a sealed plenum behind the refrigerator leading to the roof vent?

Also in one of the LV videos I think I spied plywood used for the floor (above the storage area). Hopefully that was temporarily used for a prototype or something. Shame to use something as crappy as plywood for the floor substrate on a 99% aluminum trailer that could last over a century if taken care of. Plywood getting soaked once could really create a huge costly mess.

I notice the LV spec sheet mentions AGM batteries. Hopefully that is a typo; AGM batteries are terrible. No high end product in 2019 should be using anything but lithium.

I look forward to more comments on the LV and maybe some playing devils advocate for reasons to keep my 2016 Classic.
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Old 04-21-2019, 05:24 PM   #62
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No idea but you should just send then a message on their Facebook page as I know they are pretty active there. Not sure where you are from but if it is near southeastern PA would be happy to show you our unit. We hanger it outside of Reading.

Thanks for the offer, we will keep this in mind.


Peter
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Old 04-22-2019, 10:58 AM   #63
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Love it. I would like to know if you are willing to discuss things you like about it and things you do not like.

I am considering selling my 2016 Classic and getting an LV.


I look forward to more comments on the LV and maybe some playing devils advocate for reasons to keep my 2016 Classic.
Happy to share our experience. We are not affiliated with LV or the RV industry and are just happy customers that look to give shout out to a good vendor when due. I just sent you a PM with my contact info.

In short, however, we donít really have anything negative to say as to build quality etc. There have been a few small issues that popped up with our LV that are nothing beyond the ordinary and that LV is covering under warranty (great customer service there).

The rest of your questions/comments seem more design related and I can give you my thoughts on them in real time. Our choice on the LV was a long thought out road v. a factory AS and then a custom build on a new AS shell and I think like everything there are a few trade-offs on the LV decisions but the benefits far outweigh the detriments in our case and after our first long trip we know we made the right choice.
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Old 04-22-2019, 02:24 PM   #64
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Like everything else in life, RV design is a compromise. One of the reasons why we're switching to Airstream is the number of steps to get in. The newer Foretravels have taller basements than we have, but they also have one more step up. An Airstream doesn't have a basement, so it only has two steps outside. Because the Airstream's axles are mounted close to the body, it has the same ground clearance as others, but it isn't as tall overall.


I'd love to have an Airstream with the same three-step maximum from outside to inside and a two-foot-tall basement and the same overall height, but that is simply impossible.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:43 AM   #65
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I have been emailing living vehicle and they stated that they require a 50% (about 80 grand cash) deposit to order. Time to raid the mattress cash fund!

Has anyone ever heard of such a high required deposit on anything this costly before?
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:10 AM   #66
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Wow that is high.

Guess it's s custom limited edition build each time you start one if these.

I wonder what the cancellation, restocking fee is if you need to cancel your order mid build.

They are so beautiful that if they were in my finsncial wheelhouse I would certainly consider it along with a Sportsmobile.
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:42 AM   #67
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I have been emailing living vehicle and they stated that they require a 50% (about 80 grand cash) deposit to order. Time to raid the mattress cash fund!

Has anyone ever heard of such a high required deposit on anything this costly before?
Just checked their website. They have a brand new one for sale, don't have to worry about a deposit and build time; just pull in and drive it away.

Link is below:

https://www.livingvehicle.com/inventory-4

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Old 04-25-2019, 12:21 PM   #68
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If you're interested they have 54 videos on YouTube.
Each facet is explained.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-K...IO3wt9Q/videos

I might nitpick how difficult it is to reach the city water connection, or why the power is so close to the water inlet, but in general it's a really nice exercise in design.
Hoffman is no stranger to Airstream, since his company refurbishes Airstreams.

If I won the lottery I could see one.
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:54 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
I have been emailing living vehicle and they stated that they require a 50% (about 80 grand cash) deposit to order. Time to raid the mattress cash fund!

Has anyone ever heard of such a high required deposit on anything this costly before?

YES!

Here's exactly what "Can" happen when manufacturer's demands a deposit of 30+% or more of the final selling price UPFRONT as was done by Lil Snoozy.

40+ people are out their $10,000 DEPOSIT with little hope of receiving even a fraction of that money back.

As is ALWAYS the case. Never put down more money (Deposit) on ANY item or service than you can afford to LOSE!


https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-manufact...omers-hanging/
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:10 PM   #70
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If you're interested they have 54 videos on YouTube.
. . .

Great link, thanks!
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:25 PM   #71
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YES!

Here's exactly what "Can" happen when manufacturer's demands a deposit of 30+% or more of the final selling price UPFRONT as was done by Lil Snoozy.

40+ people are out their $10,000 DEPOSIT with little hope of receiving even a fraction of that money back.

As is ALWAYS the case. Never put down more money (Deposit) on ANY item or service than you can afford to LOSE!


https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-manufact...omers-hanging/

I considered all of those issues when I bought mine but this is just the way things work for custom built vehicles. Same thing on all the custom work I have had done to my cars over the years. Plenty of horror stories of shops been shuttered with customer vehicles inside needing to be fought to be reclaimed from creditors etc.

Similar issues in the building/home construction industry too.

In the end of the day on any big purchase all you can do is your due diligence on who you are dealing with and if you want 0% risk just buy something not as cool off the shelf (but even then you still need to contend with quality of build/warranty etc.)

As to my case, Hoffman was a known commodity in the AS space, reviews were good, and I got comfortable with the whole LV team on a personal level throughout the sales process. Subsequently I was cool writing a big check 3 months out from ultimate delivery. Given the quality of their work I expect them to be there in the future for warranty and customer support but hey there is not as much certainty as you get with a large company like AS that has been around 100 years.

But I do love that it sounds like they may start to have in stock units and handling consignment sales of used units as that takes pressure off the build to spec issues/concerns for some customers.
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:24 PM   #72
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YES!

Here's exactly what "Can" happen when manufacturer's demands a deposit of 30+% or more of the final selling price UPFRONT as was done by Lil Snoozy.

40+ people are out their $10,000 DEPOSIT with little hope of receiving even a fraction of that money back.

As is ALWAYS the case. Never put down more money (Deposit) on ANY item or service than you can afford to LOSE!


https://www.rvtravel.com/rv-manufact...omers-hanging/
Ya, and $10,000 is peanuts compared to what LV is asking. I figure a top optioned LV would be approaching $180K, so that would be $90K cash they want. That is a serious gamble. I've bought many homes and six figure cars before, a 50% deposit seems highly unusual. Maybe they are trying to raise capital to pay off business loan debt?

Just to put that deposit into perspective, $90K cash to them for a 1 year production queue place at an average 10% investment return compounded monthly would mean you lose $9,400 just on the deposit. In addition to the risk of the business going bankrupt/shutting doors. Effectively meaning you'd be out ~$100K and all future growth of said money.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the order queue with the new 50% deposit policy in place.
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:49 PM   #73
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At those prices, gotta say, I'd be looking at a Bowlus instead...but maybe that's just me.
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Old 04-27-2019, 07:47 AM   #74
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At those prices, gotta say, I'd be looking at a Bowlus instead...but maybe that's just me.


In my mind Bowlus and LV are completely different products aimed at completely different buyers. Bowlus is all about the retro cool exterior design aesthetic and making an extremely light product that can be towed with a normal large sedan or suv. Usable interior and storage space suffer because of this emphasis but again that is not the point. The units are beautiful though no doubt about it.

LV is about maximizing utility and long haul capability and trying to make a trailer that feels as close to a home as possible. The boxy shape and significant weight of the trailer is an unavoidable result of that emphasis.
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:38 AM   #75
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Exactly!

Well said.

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Old 04-27-2019, 04:31 PM   #76
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I second that "Well Said". We had a 25FB for many years and loved it but our Grand kids outgrew it (10). I always wished for more storage inside and especially outside. If it wasn't 100K out of my price range I would buy one. It is incredibly well thought out and equipped.
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Old 04-27-2019, 04:53 PM   #77
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Ah, thereís the issue, I guess. Itís a beautiful trailer, just way too big for us. That must be why weíre drawn to a Bowlus vs an LV if we were dreaming about spending a large sum on a trailer.
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Old 04-27-2019, 06:07 PM   #78
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In my mind Bowlus and LV are completely different products aimed at completely different buyers. Bowlus is all about the retro cool exterior design aesthetic and making an extremely light product that can be towed with a normal large sedan or suv. Usable interior and storage space suffer because of this emphasis but again that is not the point. The units are beautiful though no doubt about it.

LV is about maximizing utility and long haul capability and trying to make a trailer that feels as close to a home as possible. The boxy shape and significant weight of the trailer is an unavoidable result of that emphasis.
Plus 3

Don't mean to get too historical but:

"The Architect Louis Sullivan In 1896 wrote "form ever follows function". Which was based on a writing by Roman architect, engineer, and author Marcus Vitruvius Pollio, who first asserted in his book De Architectura that a structure must exhibit the three qualities of firmitas, utilitas, venustas – that is, it must be solid, useful, beautiful."

The most recent and well know Architect to follow this rule was Frank Lloyd Wright.

Sounds like Hoffman agrees.

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Old 04-27-2019, 08:32 PM   #79
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Plus 3

Don't mean to get too historical but:

"The Architect Louis Sullivan In 1896 wrote "form ever follows function". Which was based on a writing by Roman architect, engineer, and author Marcus Vitruvius Pollio, who first asserted in his book De Architectura that a structure must exhibit the three qualities of firmitas, utilitas, venustas Ė that is, it must be solid, useful, beautiful."

The most recent and well know Architect to follow this rule was Frank Lloyd Wright.

Sounds like Hoffman agrees.

Pat
Two out of three ain't bad I guess. Looks like someone wrapped a mobile trailer home in tin foil!
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:52 PM   #80
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I think the LV is a tiny house on wheels. Emphasis on tiny house. If I wanted a tiny house I could be interested.

I think the Bolus is a travel trailer. Emphasis on travel. Travelling is what attracts me to trailers, not staying.

I donít think they compete at all. They might cost around the same, but that is incidental IMO.
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