design critique of a 60's caravel

[urbanfood]

i've attached two schemes for proposed layout of a 60's caravel. i'd like feedback from anyone who's interested in giving it.

sk1 - i like because of the bed in the rear and gives a little privacy from the front.

sk2 - i like because it gives a more open feel and also more space to lounge because of the couch/bed.

is there a potential problem with either of these in terms of systems, i.e. plumbing, electrical?

thanks,

david

[Janet H]

How will you be using the trailer? weekends - occasionally? Long trips? How many users? Will you be going to rainy places?

[urbanfood]

i was hoping to get the .pdf to appear in my post. not sure how to do that.

janet, were you able to look at them? in regards to your questions, i'd be using it on weekends/long weekends. users would be myself, wife and future two kids. yes we will be going to rainy places, travelling all around the west coast.

i know the trailer is small, but my wife and i are big tent campers/backpackers so anything bigger than a small tent will be a luxury. i haven't ruled out a safari, BUT if i have the caravel, it's just smaller to use/maintain/fix/repair/easier to tow and i'll probably use it more often.

my main thrill will be in using the stove to cook meals and eat at the dinette. it'll be much more fun than using a little backpacking stove.

we're not the type to hang out in the a/s during the day. we're usually out doing stuff. if it's a rainy day, we could still be out doing stuff or making due inside if needs be. i've spent numerous hours in a small tent on rainy days. we'll be sure to have plenty of books along

this is one of the reasons i did these drawings to see if it can work for me.

[Stefrobrts]

Drawing number two looks alot like the regular Caravel layout. I'm not sure what you're putting into the rear curbside corner.

Your drawing doesn't have the windows in the correct places. The small curbside window is farther back, and the streetside has two big windows. So consider that in the first option your big windows would be over the kitchen counter. Good for ventilation!

Another idea: front bed, side dinette option, leaving the kitchen where it is and not disturbing the bathroom. This is how the 22 ft CCDs are layed out. A 64-65 Safari would be perfect for this conversion, and give you a lot more walking space.

I'm not sure about such a small trailer for more than two people. It's a challenge for the two of us plus two dogs sometimes. I assume your dinette will fold down into a bed for the kids? Or you could hang bunkbeds? I think with more than two people, you might really be wishing you'd gone with the Safari. Even a globetrotter looks huge compared to the caravel after you've been in it a while.

[Janet H]

I could view both files...

so here's my $.02... (Keep in mind that I have a small trailer with a forward dinette)

I would opt for a standard caravel layout w/2 couches for a number of reasons:

You can add a folding table to eat on - I find that we almost always eat outside and tucked into the apex of both couches you can seat up to 6 (with the addition of 2 chairs in hall).

More hanging out space is better! Couches are better hanging out space that a sit up straight, feet on the ground dinette

If/when there are kids, they will need to sleep inside as well. 2 couches = 2 beds. You can put them in tents but not till they are much older.

Much less work - no rerouting lines etc.

You will find that privacy is not a real issue (front vs rear bed).

I would keep the original layout - caravels are the original mini party mobiles - their layout is infinitely flexible. When you add a dinette - you lose a lot of use options.

[toddster]

Stefrobrts... My '64 Safari has the "double" floor plan. If I could change one thing it would be to add a dinette. I'd love to hear your ideas about incorporating one. Or anyone else's for that matter. I've attached images of the floor plans for reference.

[toddster]

So now Janet has me rethinking the whole dinette idea....

Maybe I'll incorporate one of those flip up&out tables....???

[aztlanco]

I like the first layout. That is similar to what I did with my '58 Traveler (18 ft.).
It works for me and my girlfriend and I think it's more open and roomy. I built the bed 20" off the floor with a hinged lid for storage underneath.
Ernie
'58 Traveler, 18ft.

[Stefrobrts]

Janet has a good point about couches being more comfortable for lounging on, but I love our dinette for eating and playing board games on rainy days, or sometimes my husband brings WORK along (sigh - anyone remember NOT seeing him at Trout Lake?)

A flip up and out table might be a great idea. I think there's a lot of value added to keeping these older trailer intact if they are in good shape to begin with. I think a lot of value is lost in non-original furniture, unless the craftsmanship is absolutely top notch.

Since your first design looks so much like a new 16 ft trailer, maybe you should get some input from people with 16ft trailers to see what they like or don't like about the layout, having used it some. I know I liked the idea of the 22 CCD with the dinette on the side and bed in the front, until I heard how unhappy the Jordan's were with the layout. After spending some time in theirs visiting with them, it changed my mind somepletely about how well the design actually worked, which is why I appreciate the flexible design of areas that has multiple uses, like a couch that folds out into a bed, or a wet bath.

[mandolindave]

My dinette is very cool. But it is usually a bed.
My goucho is very cool. But it is usually a place for daughter stuff.
My kitchen is very cool. But I cook outside.
Wet Baths are very cool. But I don't have one.

[Bradjun1]

Both plans would work for me but one thing to consider in a smaller floorplan is that once you dedicate(plan 1) a sleeping area it is no good for anything else. You will lose some flexibility for sleeping comfort. Brad

[urbanfood]

lots of great feedback. i am still torn about which scheme though, probably leaning towards 2. i think a definite is a dinette. i think it's one of the main things i dig about the a/s. and yes i could use it for a bed.

what i like about scheme 1 is that the window in back is wide open to the living area giving a nice open airy feel.

i found a 65 caravel layout online that is similar to scheme 2. i think scheme 2 would be good, dinette up front, sofa/bed on the side and kitchen on opposite side. it would allow for dinner and lounging. two things i'm concerned with the original 65 layout;

1. the bathroom taking up the whole rear - that's a nice window back there and i'd like that space to be open to the living area. hmmm.

2. the refrigerator is right next to the door as you enter. i assume this is a full height piece of cabinetry. is there anyway to have a small ref. under the counter or have it at the opposite end toward the rear? don't know how this works with the wheel well. the idea is that when you walk in, it's all nice and open, and when you are using the stove, you have a nice view out your front door instead of being blocked by the ref.

i know i'm asking a lot for such a small space. there's a big rv show in los angeles in a couple of weeks. gonna go and check everything out.

[Janet H]

The fridge is under the counter - not full height - I think....

[3Ms75Argosy]

I've always wondered if my family of 4 could exist in a 16ft CCD... which is what this is. From a family point of view... the kids like reading and playing dolls, games, etc. at the dinnette up front. It takes seconds to convert into a bed. I like have "just" a bit of separation between us (wife and me) to rest on the couch/bed in the back of our trailer while they play merely away. You also have bit of running room for the kids from the front to the back this way (course, this is off limits while cooking). There's always outside, unless it's raining out (but in the NW, this rarely stops us from going out either).

There are places that have the best views out the back, having the bed back there lets you lounge and enjoy that view. Our Argosy has the dinette up front, kitchen, and twin couches in the middle/rear with the bath in the extreme rear. We'd like to change this layout to mid/bath, bed in back.
FWIW
Marc

[urbanfood]

okay, here's scheme 3. the toilet and shower are in separate compartments, but it allows a nice open airy space. can the ref. fit under the cab in the rear?

[urbanfood]

here's a 66 caravel on ebay. looks in pretty good condition. probably go at a pretty good price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT

[Stan Z]

I have a 65 Caravel with the original floorplan of a couch along the side, and one along the front. I think it has a more open, roomy feel than the new 16 footer where the side bath protrudes into the center of the trailer. Everyone comments on how it feels bigger on the inside then it looks on the outside. The positives are that when there are two of you in the trailer each can lounge on a sofa with its own reading lamp. The negative would be that the eating on the side tables are not as comfortable as with a dinette. And I would imagine that a permanently made-up bed would be more comfortable then the fold-out gaucho. As for the large back window in the bathroom, I usually keep the folding bathroom door open to take advantage of that window for light and ventilation, which works fine as long as you don't mind looking at the shower pan. Your plan number 3 with a cabinet under the window is a good compromise and looks a bit like the layout of a 1964 Bambi II.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by urbanfood

okay, here's scheme 3. the toilet and shower are in separate compartments, but it allows a nice open airy space. can the ref. fit under the cab in the rear?

How about installing the fridge under the sink/stove area? It would open up the rear of the coach, and get a couple of hundred pounds of weight ahead of the axle, which is a good thing .

[Stefrobrts]

With plan #3 you're pretty much back to a stock 65-68 Caravel layout in many ways. With the original back bath you have the showerpan in the center, so you have a place to stand when you're in the bathroom. This gives you more room at the toilet and the sink. Like Stan Z says, when not in use the bathroom slider is left open, and the trailer feels very roomy, you can enjoy a breeze by opening front and rear windows, and it's nice and light inside.

Another thing I like about the bathroom is it is roomy enough (and the closets are there) to change clothes in during the day. If I had to change in the trailer and there were people around (like at a rally), I would have to pull the curtains. But the bathroom is roomy enough to hop into, pull the slider and the back curtain, and change there.

Be sure to get your wife's input too! Some of us ladies are very opinionated about what we would like our bathrooms to be like

All 65-68 Caravels pretty much have the same layout. Some have a dinette in front (like mine), but the majority have the front couch (like Stan Z). Otherwise they are nearly identical.

[urbanfood]

good points stef and overland.

what do you guys think of this plan?

i moved the ref next to the stove. i really don't care for seeing the shower pan, i'd like that space back there feel more like living space. so what i've done is put the sink in the middle, nice cabinetry, storage below with the toilet and shower on opposite sides with their own door. the sink can then serve as the kitchen sink and bathroom sink and be part of the living space, an extension of the kitchen. when you need the privacy, you can pull the curtain (i'd want to do some sort of pocket for the curtain to hide it when not in use).

i think my dimensions in the length may be a little short? i'm comparing it to a 65 floor plan. does anyone know (it would give me a little more room for counter)?

this feedback has been so helpful. it's allowed me to get very little done at work....