AS Quality? Your thoughts, is it worth it? Disillusioned Potential Buyer

[MsTara]

Interesting that you mention the center of gravity and don't mess with it :-)

I will be pulling with a Porsche Macan, which is VERY tire particular (putting it mildly) and I have been reading all of these posts about raising the ride height of the Airstream and changing the tires from 14 to 15 (or even 16). One of my concerns about doing EITHER of the above is how does that change the aerodynamics of the Airstream. Coming from a sports car enthusiast back ground, one of the rules is "don't mess with the aerodynamics". I have chosen to not go down that path, but am continuing to read the forums to learn more about it.

Originally Posted by dkottum

Great video demonstration why it is also important to consider Airstream's independent suspension and low center of gravity. And perhaps why not to mess with it.

Similar considerations for selecting a tow vehicle.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by MsTara

Interesting that you mention the center of gravity and don't mess with it :-)



I will be pulling with a Porsche Macan, which is VERY tire particular (putting it mildly) and I have been reading all of these posts about raising the ride height of the Airstream and changing the tires from 14 to 15 (or even 16). One of my concerns about doing EITHER of the above is how does that change the aerodynamics of the Airstream. Coming from a sports car enthusiast back ground, one of the rules is "don't mess with the aerodynamics". I have chosen to not go down that path, but am continuing to read the forums to learn more about it.

Andrew Thomson at Can Am is the one to ask about using better than ST tires for your rig. Made the above video. But larger wheels don't necessarily mean a taller trailer, not meaningfully. That said, some of the Michelin line he recommends has a good record.


1990 35' Silver Streak
2004 555 Cummins

[Vycan]

If you have a doubt, run! You will always harbor that doubt. Then your experience becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. I'd rather not encourage you to get one only to come back and complain. Complain to others about airstream. Demote the brand, and turn others away.

I will tell you my first motorhome was the one I have now. I had zero experience, and decided to take the plunge. I have been disappointed in craftsmanship at nearly every turn because I was accustomed to working on cars. It was not until I read an article that RV's are not held to the same standards as cars that I realized I was approaching it wrong.

RV's are a low density market. There is no room for profit if you create custom wiring harnesses, engineer systems, and create at the same level of the multi-million unit auto industry.

So in the case of my coach, they made 27 in three years. It's frankensteined together and totally different from coach to coach because it took 1.5 months per coach to make, and depending who was on shift could depend on how it was frankensteined. We went on a tour of Jackson Center and saw how they are made, and it all made perfect sense. Everyone there works 9-5pm, and it is obvious they care about what they do. You will not find that kind of work or quality anywhere else in the US for RVs.

I find much less frustration in my coach's original construction than I do in the shody and disappointing work of any service center I have taken it to. I find I can do any job they would for less $$$, and better quality, but I like to fix things, am mechanically and electrically inclined. Most recently I had the head gasket go out while on vacation. Took a few days to have it fixed, only to blow within 120 miles, fixed it under warranty, blew again at 300 miles, fixed it again under warranty, and 28 days later with all my vacation time used, it was good.

I would recommend purchasing a used one if you have concerns with quality. Say from the 80's... maybe the 70's... perhaps the 60's... then purchase a comparable SOB from the same era. Except you cannot for the 70's and 60's because they have all fallen apart. No matter your thoughts about the quality, 70% ever made are still on the road.

I will tell you this: If you are going to buy an airstream you need to be one of two things:
1. Rich to cover the cost of all the repairs over the years with no concerns
2. Mechanically and electrically inclined so you can deal with them yourself

You cannot be easily frustrated by setbacks (Every time you take it out something will break).

Based off of your reservations stated thus far. I would again encourage you not to do it, simply because I greatly enjoy my airstream with all its flaws and constant work required, and I think it would be outside of your desired intent. I do not want you to go into this significant purchase with a negative attitude, get one, and then tarnish the brand when you are unsatisfied, potentially influencing another's decision not to get one.

[MelGoddard]

The MAIN reason that I chose Airstream is of course, the expected quality built in; but more important was the aerodynamic shape of it.
Having a Hi-Lo meant easy pulling in handling and gas milage.
I wanted similar in the replacement trailer.

Also, when in an open 'campground' with high winds bashing at you, the 'box' style trailers, including the Hi-Lo, were vulnerable to the winds, as some videos have shown.
The Airstream's rounded shape helps to preclude that. It will ride out a strong wind a lot better than others,
I find that towing the AS is not hard on gas as the 'Boxcars' on the road, and my mileage reflects that.
My first AS, a 25'er FC had some quality and design issues. My 30'er is very comfortable, easy to use, and 'home' to us on the road.
My only issue with it, is the bathroom sink draining into the black tank, shortening it's duration.
Ahh! Nothings perfect! Other than that, a very comfortable and workable 'home'.

Trailer Trash waiting for Spring to hit the road.

[jwill]

My wife and I are taking delivery of our Airstream 16 Sport in a couple weeks. We have a nearly 30-foot long Coachmen Freedom Express 246RKS TT right now we are trading in.

From day one, we were less than impressed with the Coachmen's quality. We initially wanted Airstream, but like you, weren't entirely sure the cost was "worth it". After our first camping trip with the Coachmen, my wife and I had a talk about how we wished we bought what we wanted.

Long story short, we stopped at an Airstream dealer on a whim and looked at their stock. We instantly fell in love with the 16 Bambi. The quality differences are very noticeable, which sold me. My wife wanted a smaller camper and I try to give her what she wants

To name a few quality concerns of my Coachmen:
- hated the 1/8" plywood everything in the Coachmen (even the shelves of the cabinets were stapled in 1/8" plywood)
- the foam in the couch and dinette cushions was a joke which required, as a result, an instant upgrade to high density foam that could actually support body weight (there was literally no density to them)
- the interior door handles were already wearing out after 2 weekend trips
- the TT came with a no name branded TV and DVD player/audio system that worked poorly
- the cheap plastic faucets and shower hardware were freightening to use (there was no way they were going to last long)
- the floors bowed wherever I stepped (I'm nearly 180 lbs)
- the dinette table was a disaster and was far from user-friendly

After shopping and playing around in the Airstreams, I noticed all of my concerns above were addressed. Not only this, we LOVE the interior and exterior styling of the Bambi Sport models, especially the white wood laminate and aluminum interior panels.

Just like much in life, justifying the Airstream's cost vs. quality as compared with other SOBs is relative. For us, there was no question. My new 2017 Sport 16 is over double the cost new of my SOB for "half" the space. It's worth it to us! My wife and I have a ton of family and friends who think we are crazy, and you know what? We are crazy (which I'm all about ), but this is what we want for the reasons above, many others, and for the comment in the last paragraph of this post.

I should mention my depreciation story. My coachmen was marked 31k MSRP. I purchased it new for 20k out-the-door. My trade-in offers were between 12k and 16k after 4 months of ownership. Talk about a slap in the face.

[m.hony]

Your story resembles my experience with a 2009 Forest River Wildwood 28RLSS that I traded in on my 2013 Classic 30 in October 2012.

[gonz]

Originally Posted by jwill

My wife and I are taking delivery of our Airstream 16 Sport in a couple weeks. We have a nearly 30-foot long Coachmen Freedom Express 246RKS TT right now we are trading in.

From day one, we were less than impressed with the Coachmen's quality. We initially wanted Airstream, but like you, weren't entirely sure the cost was "worth it". After our first camping trip with the Coachmen, my wife and I had a talk about how we wished we bought what we wanted.

Long story short, we stopped at an Airstream dealer on a whim and looked at their stock. We instantly fell in love with the 16 Bambi. The quality differences are very noticeable, which sold me. My wife wanted a smaller camper and I try to give her what she wants

To name a few quality concerns of my Coachmen:
- hated the 1/8" plywood everything in the Coachmen (even the shelves of the cabinets were stapled in 1/8" plywood)
- the foam in the couch and dinette cushions was a joke which required, as a result, an instant upgrade to high density foam that could actually support body weight (there was literally no density to them)
- the interior door handles were already wearing out after 2 weekend trips
- the TT came with a no name branded TV and DVD player/audio system that worked poorly
- the cheap plastic faucets and shower hardware were freightening to use (there was no way they were going to last long)
- the floors bowed wherever I stepped (I'm nearly 180 lbs)
- the dinette table was a disaster and was far from user-friendly

After shopping and playing around in the Airstreams, I noticed all of my concerns above were addressed. Not only this, we LOVE the interior and exterior styling of the Bambi Sport models, especially the white wood laminate and aluminum interior panels.

Just like much in life, justifying the Airstream's cost vs. quality as compared with other SOBs is relative. For us, there was no question. My new 2017 Sport 16 is over double the cost new of my SOB for "half" the space. It's worth it to us! My wife and I have a ton of family and friends who think we are crazy, and you know what? We are crazy (which I'm all about ), but this is what we want for the reasons above, many others, and for the comment in the last paragraph of this post.

I should mention my depreciation story. My coachmen was marked 31k MSRP. I purchased it new for 20k out-the-door. My trade-in offers were between 12k and 16k after 4 months of ownership. Talk about a slap in the face.

Congratulations on your new Airstream!! I am reflecting on every comment provided on this thread and I am going to take my time in making this decision.

[jwill]

Gonz,

I'm not sure if this was said in another reply on our post here, but here goes:

Since you're new to RVing, my suggestion would be for you to go view SOB trailers at your local dealer. Really look at them from a quality standpoint. I mean, really look at them! Look at the cabinets (doors, sides, shelves), push on the walls, mess around with the faucets, and jump on the floor. Pretend to use it like you would if you were camping. Take down the dinette, put it back up, lay on the bed, sit on the couches, etc.

Take notes on what you like, what you don't, and what you're unsure of.

Do this in a few different SOBs at a price you're willing to spend. Then go to an Airstream dealer and do all of the above while your SOB experience is fresh in your mind. Take the notes you recorded for the SOBs and record your thoughts on the Airstream and compare away!

Get as detailed as you want! Have fun with it. I am sure you'll find the Airstream to be much more substantial.

Research is great (I personally love researching), but there's nothing than your own biased experience .

[MsTara]

Love this as that is what I personally did. You should have seen me crawling around on the floor of all the different RV's. I lifted the table up and down, made the secondary bed. Lay on both of them and sprawled out. Open every cabinet and sit on the toilet. Pretend to take a shower and even imagine what it will take to clean it!

Picking up my 2017 16' Bambi tomorrow and can't wait.

MsTara

Originally Posted by jwill

Gonz,

I'm not sure if this was said in another reply on our post here, but here goes:

Since you're new to RVing, my suggestion would be for you to go view SOB trailers at your local dealer. Really look at them from a quality standpoint. I mean, really look at them! Look at the cabinets (doors, sides, shelves), push on the walls, mess around with the faucets, and jump on the floor. Pretend to use it like you would if you were camping. Take down the dinette, put it back up, lay on the bed, sit on the couches, etc.

Take notes on what you like, what you don't, and what you're unsure of.

Do this in a few different SOBs at a price you're willing to spend. Then go to an Airstream dealer and do all of the above while your SOB experience is fresh in your mind. Take the notes you recorded for the SOBs and record your thoughts on the Airstream and compare away!

Get as detailed as you want! Have fun with it. I am sure you'll find the Airstream to be much more substantial.

Research is great (I personally love researching), but there's nothing than your own biased experience .

[AWCHIEF]

Gonz, coming up Jan 5-8 is The Canopener Rally will be held close to you at Topsail State Park. Should be about 150 trailers in attendance. There will be an open house on Saturday the 7th. It would give you an oportunity to view many different Airstreams and talk directly to owners. I think you will find in face to face conversations that virtually all are happy with their decision warts and all to become Airstreamers. There might also be a dealer in attendance with a couple of new AIRSTREAM's for viewing. I will be in spot #70 and would be very happy to welcome you to my trailer and try to answer any questions you may have.

[gonz]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

Gonz, coming up Jan 5-8 is The Canopener Rally will be held close to you at Topsail State Park. Should be about 150 trailers in attendance. There will be an open house on Saturday the 7th. It would give you an oportunity to view many different Airstreams and talk directly to owners. I think you will find in face to face conversations that virtually all are happy with their decision warts and all to become Airstreamers. There might also be a dealer in attendance with a couple of new AIRSTREAM's for viewing. I will be in spot #70 and would be very happy to welcome you to my trailer and try to answer any questions you may have.

Michael, thank you so much for that bit of information and for the invite. I may very well just take you up on that.

Ironically, I was just told by one of my co-workers to look up TopSail. He just bought an RV (SOB). I looked it up online and it looked like a very nice place to stay with its own private beach.

Thanks again!

[gonz]

Originally Posted by MsTara

Love this as that is what I personally did. You should have seen me crawling around on the floor of all the different RV's. I lifted the table up and down, made the secondary bed. Lay on both of them and sprawled out. Open every cabinet and sit on the toilet. Pretend to take a shower and even imagine what it will take to clean it!

Picking up my 2017 16' Bambi tomorrow and can't wait.

MsTara

Very nice! Congratulations! I did look at other SOBs and did some of what others recommended which is why I immediately gravitated towards AS. I just had no idea they were that expensive and as my original post indicated, with some inevitable issues. Based on all the outstanding feedback I have received, I am convinced that albeit some relatively small issues which is to be expected, overall, AS is still the best trailer out there.

Once again congrats and enjoy!!

[Tn Traveler]

Originally Posted by kb0zke

I think that those who are happiest with their coaches, regardless of brand, are those who buy a coach that really matches their needs and wants. They also are proactive in caring for their coaches, constantly looking for small problems and dealing with them before they become big problems.

Gonz, the above statement by kbOzke gets to the heart of the matter. No TT will be perfect. Here is what I did. I bought a gently used 2006 AS. It was several years old when I bought it. It was priced about equal to a new other brand of far less quality. I have done some upgrading the most expensive of which are 5 new aluminum wheels and Michelin tires. That was just for my peace of mind. I paid about the price the factory would charge for that upgrade. A gently used trailer will have most or maybe all of the kinks worked out. Mine did.

Take a look at how many old trailers you see on the road. Most will be AS. No trailer will take you from cradle to grave with no problems. I am happy with my purchase. Your experience may vary. Good luck.

[MelGoddard]

WOW! Hot topic here.
7 pages and still going!
It shows a lot of passion for our Airstreams.

Trailer Trash............"

[Zybane]

My 2016 Classic had a laundry list of problems, some egregious.

I sent this list to Airstream customer service email and was ignored. Take it for what it's worth.

[AWCHIEF]

Originally Posted by Zybane

My 2016 Classic had a laundry list of problems, some egregious.

I sent this list to Airstream customer service email and was ignored. Take it for what it's worth.

Easy solution, Give them a phone call and make an appointment.

[kb0zke]

Since I was the one to make the original comment about making sure that the dealer makes some money on the sale and two people have taken issue with that, let me explain what I meant. Pick up almost any sales brochure for an RV and on the back you will see something to the effect that you ought to buy from your local dealer, as otherwise you might not get all of the warranty work that you deserve because the dealer will put his own customers ahead of you. Perhaps that isn't true of Airstream dealers, but enough people have reported that is IS true for their coaches that I would assume it to be an industry-wide standard. There are several dealers who are known nation-wide for their low prices, to the point that people have reported they have driven 1000 miles one-way to get their new coaches and have saved money, even counting the fuel, hotels, meals, etc. of the trip. Then they find out that their local dealer won't do the warranty work on their coach in a timely manner, and the local dealer "suggests" that they take it back where they bought it. Had they purchased locally they would have paid a bit more initially, but the dealer would have more readily done the work needed.

I've also heard that some manufacturers pay a flat rate for warranty work, not what the dealership charges their customers. That means, for example, that if the manufacturer pays $95/hour for warranty work, but the dealer charges $115/hour for labor, the dealership loses $20/hour on warranty work.

It seems to me that the recreational vehicle industry needs to take a good, hard look at how they compare to the automobile industry. No matter what car or truck you buy new, every dealer for that brand is contractually obligated to handle warranty work for it in a timely manner. Too many complaints and the franchise is revoked.

As for the quality of Airstreams vs other brands, well, that's been discussed (and cussed) often enough. Go to http://www.nadaguides.com/RVs and look up the MSRP of a brand-new Airstream, a 10-year-old one, and a 20-year-old one (same model, of course). Not the current price compared to the original MSRP. Do the same for some other brand. For some you can't go back 10 years, much less 20 years. For those that you can, how much of the original price do you get back at each of those marks? Now go to http://www.rvtrader.com/ and see if you can find one of those other brands that is 10 or 20 years old. Better yet, go to some of the used camper lots and look at them. Pretty sad, aren't they? Which would you rather have?

[slowmover]

Nice posts, Kb0zke.

I've told several people over the years to not worry over the brand of new car, but to find out what dealership in their area was renowned for service. That long term relationship means more than the small brand differences of today.

And the joke about SOBs is that the finance note exists longer than the RV to which it is attached.


1990 35' Silver Streak
2004 555 Cummins

[mojoe7009]

To Carl 2591
After 39 years in the car business I can confidently tell you that the old wives tale that "Just like car dealers the larger dealers get better "deals" from the manf with a lower price point invoice" is just that an old wives tale...a myth perpetuated by large volume dealers. I was a Ford dealer selling 400 units a month and my "factory invoice price" was exactly the same as a dealer selling 25 unit a month and we received no volume discounts. Automobile dealers and Airstream dealers are franchisees and as such are covered by certain state franchise laws that prevent a manufacturer from have preferential pricing from one dealer to another. It is true however volume can cover a lot of mistakes. So a large volume dealer can sell a unit at a stupid price and more easily cover it with the volume and pricing on other units. But if a large volume dealer sells them all at unsustainable margins he goes out of business just as quick as the small dealer. Bottom line...find a reputable dealer and work hard to get a good deal then go enjoy your new trailer!


Breathe in, breathe out, move on!

[J. Morgan]

If considering whether Airstreams are worth the extra cash, have a look at other brand trailers and Airstream trailers after a rollover crash.

The similarity is that both will be total financial losses, the difference is that one is a pile of debris, and the other is still recognizable as a trailer.

Or, for another example have a look at Burnside Bob's thread. Would any SOB survive that fire to be resurrected? I don't think so.

There is a fundamental difference in an Airstream and all others made, in my time on this forum it seems that most of the problems with Airstreams are gadgety quirks and from long term neglect regarding water infiltration.


Gradiens super tenui glacie.