AS Quality? Your thoughts, is it worth it? Disillusioned Potential Buyer

[Lynntalsma]

Do not be dismayed and pursue your dream. As others have said Airstream is a great product. We have owned many makes of trailers over the years and our Airstream is by far the best. It says a lot about a trailer when you have this many fanatics with such a wide range of interests not to mention the durability of the vintage trailers and the modern trailers. You will love your new trailer. We all have maintenance issues that arise, just like raising a family. It is nevever complete, but always rewarding. I have much more fun working on my Airstream than I do working around the house or yard. Dive in!

[stast01]

When my wife and I decided that we wanted a small RV, we looked at several, all on the Mercedes chassis. None came close to the Airstream in terms of fit and finish. But one of the first sales guys I talked to was very honest--I asked him if the build quality would ensure low maintenance, and he honestly replied "Take the maintenance of your house, its systems, and a luxury car, add them all together and that's what you can expect". Said another way, if you expect to drive around a small house, expect maintenance commensurate with that activity. We've had very few problems in the course of two years of ownership, but there have been a few--none serious, and mostly due to pilot error/learning curve. But I'm smarter now, and nothing really "scares" me anymore. I'm confident that the systems installed are the best that money can buy, and I'm prepared to handle it. I don't have a dealer within 300 miles, so I'm on my own. Jackson Center has been helpful with information and help as required. Try that with another brand.

[TSOMMY]

Airstream has been in business for more than 80yrs because they build a good product. Take a look around during the last 30 or 40 yrs there have been so many RV manufactures start up and flake out or get bought out by another company and then flake out due to poor sales or a bad economy . We camp with many families who have other than Airstream and they ALL have many more issues of poor design / workmanship than we have had with our Airstream. Nothing is perfect no matter how much you pay! We have had our 2012 27ft Eddie Bauer since it was new and have had ZERO issues. IF YOU WANNA PLAY YOU GOTTA PAY

[interstateflyer]

We've had three Airstream Trailers in the past fifteen years. Quality has generally been excellent. A couple of hiccups here and there but nothing that couldn't be reasonably remedied within the warranty period.

Four quality and workmanship issues have caught my eye on our new 2017 25FB International Serenity. 1.)The small wooden blocks that act as the interface between the bed frame and air struts that enable one to lift the bed and allow access to the storage area, were stapled on and immediate pulled off when we lifted the bed. I screwed them both to the frame. 2.) The aluminum angle iron frames around the upper cabinets and bathroom window have poorly matched mitered corners, sharp edges and unsightly. 3.) Faulty fuse holder on the electric jack (bad batch from Atwood). 4.) Reverse polarity on the ZAMP charge port (bad batch from ZAMP).

On the positive side, our new 2017 25FB International Serenity shows that Airstream has responded to customer wants and needs. In contrast to our 2014 23D International, the 2017 has ducted air conditioning, lots of usb ports (but no 12volt cigarette lighter style ports), cushy vinyl flooring, deep battery box to accommodate 6 volt AGM batteries, solar combiner box on the roof, mushroom style TV antenna, portable ZAMP solar panel quick connect port on battery box, upgraded aluminum external steps, digital voltage and tank readout panel, much quite water pump operation, denser foam in dinette and lounge cushions, plastic-dip like material on the bumper ends, rain proof plastic cover on the Atwood electric jack, black paint on the front A-frame instead of that model year's secret gray formula, better seal on the water heater cover interface, and probably a few other things that I haven't yet noticed.

Electric vs manual awning. Our 2017 was ordered with a manual awning (instead of the now standard electric ones) by someone who opted out of the trailer due to health reasons. We were all set to order the exact trailer with the the same manual main awning. Two of our traveling companions had their electric awnings fail while on the road. It took hours to retract one of the awnings. The other had been to the shop many times without finding a solution.

[carl2591]

You got that right, even if you get what you think is a GREAT deal I believe the dealer still made money. Most of the time they are making some where from 3-5K per unit, more or less, depending on many units they sell yearly.. Just like car dealers the larger dealers get better "deals" from the manf with a lower price point invoice.

If you get a good deal and the dealer puts you on the bottom of the service list... FIND another dealer.

For every person that buys a unit at 25% or better below MSRP there are 2 that buy at 10% under MSRP so it all balances out.

If you check the classified section you see several 14, 15 16's for sale and soon 17s that someone is wanting to trade up or get out of.

buy new if you like but for me I got used and saved BIG money..

Originally Posted by Boxite

I'm appalled at that advice. "Be sure the dealer makes a nice profit" is unworthy of belief. Any AS dealer who's been in business for more than a year or two selling AS's knows how to make money. That should NOT be a concern of any buyer. A seller knows what his margin is and is not going to take any injury with the mindset he can make up low margin by refusing to provide after-the-sale service. Any warranty work is ALSO A PROFITABLE activity for a dealer, as he is paid by the factory for his labor. Additionally, that weak advice presumes that the buyer is either purchasing a troublesome product which will require difficult repairs the seller might not want to do.....or the dealer will refuse to perform his obligations to prepare the delivery and complete the sale.
Horsefeathers! Any dealer in AS's will want to preserve his reputation for follow up business and referrals by the buyer. It's called Economics/Marketing 101.
Gonzo, WELCOME to the tribe of AS owners. Keep in mind that most folks come here to the forums to seek info on mx and operations, and all such forums of this type have a cadre of whiners and complainers. The Airstream product is the best on the market.... period.
I personally do not wish to take the depreciation of pulling one off the showroom floor, but if that's your preference.... then as the buyer you get to choose. So many people new to RV-ing buy and shortly upgrade/upsize/downgrade/downsize to fit their needs that many sell slightly used units at bargain-prices compared to new units. I'm one of those who prefer to let someone else take the "hickey" and work out the "kinks" in new equipment. I bought a barely/lightly-used unit 5 years old for about 40% less than the original owner paid. After a year and a half, I have turned down offers more than I paid for it and it's not for sale!
Yes, I found a few weak points and I fixed them. And I modified a few things to better serve my needs. I found that the AS is indeed a better unit and worth the price of entry than other brands. I plan to keep it until I cannot camp anymore and then pass it to the kids or sell it and get my money back. I fully expect to take no loss if I maintain it.
Hope this helps.

[ashrink12]

I find the vast majority of AS owners to be happy campers. Hmmm. Pun intended.

I am on my second AS. 2015 25FB flying cloud and now a 2017 30 International Serenity. When you look at all the hand work and craftsmanship that goes into these TT it boggles the mind. Most people have few if any problems. I have had 3 issues with the 30 Intnl and I'll be taking it back for some warranty work soon. It's really like building a home and addressing the punch list with the builder. AS cares about their Reputation and they want to keep people's loyalty. Most people who have buyers remorse would have been unhappy with any other brand. Most AS owners are very enthusiastic and they tend to stick together in a tight knit group. Being handy is probably a plus with any camper or for that matter a plus for anyone who owns a home.

May we all be Happy Campers!

[ghaynes755]

There is a 100% perfect Airstream. Have the folks at Timeless Travel in Denver buy a shell from AS based on the model you want, have them custom build the rest of it and I would almost guarantee it would leave Timeless absolutely perfect. Of course the first pothole might make a difference. The Timeless price would be PRICELESS.

The same complaints of quality can be found on every travel trailer and motorhome forum on the web. Shoot not even home built by standard builders are perfect and the landscape on the internet is littered with builder complaints.

My Airstreams have been just fine. 100% perfect, no, but they weren't built by the few perfect people who have walked on earth....

[cazual6]

Very valid concern.

I work in the AV industry and design them for high end homes (worth around $10m and up). If you are comparing that higher end means flawless, then I haven't seen it. Premium means premium parts. Quality of the build by man will always have flaws especially when it comes to production lines of products.

AS uses high grade aluminum which cost more.

I had issues with mine as well. I am no exceptions. AS dealer took care of every single one.

However, every RV dealer I have seen when I went to an RV show has always told me AS is always built better than most. So if AS has these issues, then I am concerned for the other brands.

One last thing, and this is superficial, AS carry weight like a Rolls Royce. I am not saying it is one, but when someone says Rolls Royce, it carries a certain weight.

But AS is something I will always stick by, I plan on upgrading to the 28ft soon.

[Sodbust1]

I understand your concern. But I feel the long term issues with all the other trailer companies is a small price to pay for a newer one with a few bugs to have fixed under warranty.

What percent of 40+ year stick and staple trailers are still on the road? Not many at best 3% where old A$ are most likely around 40%

As a young boy I had an uncle with a mid 50s model A$, don't remember the badge for the name but it had a lot of windows along one side and a single axle.
He was the head of a boy scout group and pulled that old trailer 10,000 miles a year with no issues I can remember. He always commented that if you would put wings on that old A$, it could fly.

Well, we wanted a camping trailer to tag along with our family to the local lakes with a few long distance trips per year. We felt we could not afford a real A$ so settled for a stick and staple 5th wheel . I knew when I got it there was a rear corner that showed some cracks in the sealant but felt it was not a big deal to fix. We took it to our local lake a few trips and wasn't till we pulled it 500 miles we saw some major problems.

The siding would come unlocked after a day on the highway, and then next day I adjusted my mirrors to see the whole side of our camper flapping in the road wind. The entire corner was so loose I could pass a loaf of bread out the back of the camper if I pushed on the wall.

Back home I started to pull staples and siding till I got into the body framework. I was shocked to see none of the timbers was joint fitted but square cut and held together with 6 long staples. Most of the lower body wood was black and rotted.

What I found out was at the factory from day one they forgot to hook up the AC drain tube so all the AC water filled the lower walls and rotted all the wood. It was a mess and took me most of a week to rebuild. The wood that was used in the camper frame was some super soft balsa type cheap wood that the staples would go into easy.

I got it rebuilt but when done searched for a buyer ASAP and we started our search for a real riveted body A$. We ended up with a 1972 Overlander in very poor condition but it was still solid.

Matter of fact, all the units inside after cleaning and some oil took off and worked like new again. I did have to replace both axles but found a supplier off this website and they bolted in easy.

There is just one spot in front of the trailer with a rotted hole about 4" around from a leak in the front windows. Other than that it is still as solid as it was made in 1972.

I understand that I am talking about old/new issue but the basics are still the same. A solid made riveted together trailer built like a battleship.

After seeing how cheap the new stick and staple wonder trailers are built, just makes mine so much nicer. Yes, some of the newer floor plans are wonderful to the tunnel like "submarine" of our old Overlander. But I still love the insight that was put into it from day one. That's my 2 cents worth if it helps. Sodbust

[Moflash]

There is not a better trailer out there.I wish they would read this forum and use it to improve upon their product.But it is what it is


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[Wingeezer]

May be a bit off topic but from what I have heard, I'm thinking that the "Oliver" (discussed in another thread) sounds more like my idea of a quality product - all kinds of marine grade stainless steel fittings and latches etc., instead of the junk we get!

Im guessing a lot less prone to damaging leaks as well.

If I were looking for another RV after our present AS, I think I'd be taking a close look at one of them!

Unfortunately, I don't think they make one large enough to keep "Mrs Wingeezer" happy, she seems to think that anything smaller than what we now have won't do the trick so I'd have some convincing to do!

Brian.

[gonz]

To all, thanks again for the wealth of information. For those that mentioned Icon, that's nice but not my motivation at all. My motivation was the quality compared to SOB (I just learned what that meant, thanks to the person that defined it in his reply). The other thing that I love about the AS and have not seen it in any other camper that size is that nice open feeling. I like that the sitting/table area in the back is so bright and open with all the windows. I can just see the wife and I having a cup of Joe and enjoying the view.

My head is spinning!! but in a good way. I can tell you trying to make this decision has been one heck of a roller coaster ride! I have learned quite a bit from all of your replies. Unfortunately, none of the nearby dealers have what I want. One reply mentioned to check out Foley RV in Mississippi, I did and they gave me a good price but that's the trailer that "creaked" and it did not have the window awnings which I feel I need for the Florida sun if I want to camp anytime near summer.

I have been given a good price from a dealer in Ohio that has everything I want but he is about a 12.5hr drive from where I live. I am leaning towards putting a deposit in a day or two. It's a FC25FB with two 90 watt factory panels. I guess I will leave everything stock until I can figure out what "boiling" the battery means and if I need to change out the charger and inverter etc. I only saw one reply that said they were happy with the factory equipment ref solar panel and display etc.

If I pull the trigger, I will post it and I am sure I will be doing a lot of reading to learn how to repair things and what items/models of other items seem to work best as follow on improvements.

Again, I cannot thank all of you for your candid remarks. The possibility has me pretty excited. Oh, I failed to mention, my wife has absolutely no idea I am doing this research and ready to pull the trigger. I know what she likes because we visited a dealer about a month ago, but since then I have not said anything. If I move forward, I will be closing the deal before Christmas. If all goes well, I will park it in our driveway on Xmas eve, place a big red bow on it and well, after she opens up a miniature toy model of it, I will lead her to the driveway.

More to follow....
Cheers!

[Ronman]

This is a vehicle that travels down the road, over pot holes, etc. RV'ing is a "Hobby!" If you want perfection, try the Four Seasons. While I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I am trying to be realistic.
Trust me when I say, there is nothing more fun than an Airstream. If you JUST want a trailer, buy a fiberglass box with limited windows and that lovely five shades of brown interior. It should last 8-10 years.
If you want something special, buy an Airstream.
Whatever you decide on, just have fun!
Best of Luck!

[zapper]

Originally Posted by gonz

Hello to all, I would like to hear your thoughts. I am new to the forum and learning quite a bit. After doing some initial research and reading horrible reviews on just about every RV travel trailer maker, I quickly realized that I may have to go the much more expensive AS route. I am new to RVing and still knew or so I thought that AS was supposed to be one of, if not the best. But, I am now feeling somewhat discouraged after reading numerous threads on this forum. Considering what I call a very steep price for a travel trailer (25-27ft), I would think that it would be a high quality product and come near perfect. I fully realize that all manufacturers have varying level of issues, but I just did not expect to hear so many complaints about AS. Are they resting on their laurels and now building on the cheap? As I read, folks are not happy about many things, such as the tires, the inverter, the solar panels, lack of 3 stage charger, poor battery management displays, hinges coming loose, cheap linoleum floors, microwaves falling out, TVs coming undone, quality issues of electronic things not hooked up or done right from the factory etc. This weekend, I went to a nearby dealer and looked at a FC 25FB. When I was by the bed area, the floor "creaked" and pretty loud. I kept stepping near a 2' x2' area and it kept doing it. The salesperson said that AS is known for that and that they recently repaired one. Is that true? After quite a bit of searching, I finally found a trailer that I like but after reading all these issues, it really has me reconsidering. I was excited looking for a trailer and finally found a 2017 FC 25FB that comes with 180w solar panels and was ready to pull the trigger but now not sure. I read a lot of negatives about factory solar and it was not a criterion of mine, but this one had everything I wanted and even with it, priced out well. It almost seem like it will be a continuous maintenance headache from the day I buy and I guess for that price point, I sure expected better. Am I only reading the percentage of folks having issues while most are happy campers? Am I missing something? Are the 2017s any better and addressed a lot of the issues mentioned?

Gone I'm sure you will read if you have not already that most of the posts are from those who have had some problems with their unit. I would venture to say that the vast majority who have had no problems with their units, you never hear from. Currenty, I have a 25 FB and this December will pick up a 30 FC. I have owned trailers by other manufactures and by far I find the AS dollar for dollar worth the price you pay for the unit. Sure buyers expectations are high and they should be but you cannot compare the manufacturing process of the AS as good as it with modern automotive manufacturing. It's apples and oranges. That being said 95% of all the problems I have had with my 25 FB AS have been with part suppliers (pumps, battery chargers, toilets, vent fans, AC units, water heaters, axels) that supply all the other trailer manufactures too. I have had very little go wrong with the AS trailer itself.

[MarkFinATX]

Welcome to the forum Gonz. I think one of the best posts was from Switz. He really hit the nail on the head when it comes to weekly output. I was at the new factory last March when our Pendleton was being built and they were approaching 80 units per week. At that time the backlog was 1360 units. Was there last week for factory service (those guys ROCK!) and the backlog is a bit less but still a busy place. Many new employees and training are always an issue. They work 9 hour shifts M-Th and 7-12 noon on Friday. No second shifts, no overtime... (I can't say "never") just a steady, life balanced, employee centric AMERICAN company. Ownership has changed a few times over the years but they have survived. I've heard the number as high 90% are still in existence. Not all on the road, but the renovation and restoration market is a big part of the Airstream community.

This 8 part article by Greg Gerber is a very interesting read. Download it here:

http://rvdailyreport.com/industry/do...mplete-series/

Airstream uses the same "off the shelf" components that every other RV manufacturer uses for appliances, AC, furnace, hot water heaters etc.There are some grade differences but by and large "parts is parts". I so want to begin the upgrade process, like the multi-stage converter but my dealer always seems to be "two weeks out" and I'm not thrilled with the the shop environment. Looks more like a junkyard than an RV shop. I did have them install the "stainless package"- exterior access doors & vent hood cover and it went OK.

Quality is hard to define. These are still handmade, and after 10K miles since April I can attest to the fact that things get shaken about and often need some "adjustment".

Good luck with your search and enjoy. Best advice we ever received: "expect the unexpected".

Mark

[GM Airstream]

I found that a new airstream is nice but expensive. You can buy 3 older ones for the same price. If it fails... you can move on to the next one. Older AS seem to have a better warmth to them than the new beer can look inside. Several people have bought them and got out the paint brush and did their own thing.

Thus I recommend that you not discount the used older units. I think that back then they had better craftsmanship... and prices were considered. Today its ... get it out the door... and let the new owner find the problems.

Another issue that I have come across is that down in the texas area... they had sever flooding.. and a lot of new trailers setting on the dealers lot got flooded above the floor line... thus the OSB board floors are not the wood they started out to be.

AS are light.. if they put more metal and ribs into the frame... it would be much heavier and costly to tow. Avion trailers are heavy but, when they made 'em they didn't skimp on the materials or craftmanship.

So you takes your choices. If I may recommend... don't get the newest... with what you think you wanted on it... get a good one... and put WHAT YOU want on it. That way you can be your own quality control. Solar cells are nice but do you really need them are questions you should be asking. A lot of these accessories only end up costing big bux and in the end are high maintenance items. The golden rule is ... keep it simple... and you might not regret the day you got it.

As to size... it usually take two or three different trailers to settle down on what you personally need or want. You can ask 100 people and you will get 100 different answers.. as each person has their own likes and dislikes.

Before you buy any trailer have it surveyed by a rep service... that way you will get the full picture of what the trailer is. Others have touched on the resale value... so we won't go their. .. but... don't feel like the brand new trailer is better... remember today getting the product out the door is the profit margin. Older AS have seen the road... and most have walked the walk and had repairs or mods done to them at the owners idea of a good time.

A small trailer might be what others say is good... but you won't know until you have spent time with it... Its too bad that you can't rent 'em... then that way you can see what size is right for you... Good luck and happy trails... G.M>

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

I am going to jump in again here as one of the "complainers". I do not complain just to complain; the reason is that I am disappointed. Over my life I have been conditioned to expect to pay for quality. Certainly this was true in cars and boats, homes, home repairs, electronics, and so on. Well, my whole point with Airstream is that the quality does not meet my expectation based on the price premium. I am not selling my Airstream, I am using it. I do not wish I had bought another brand.
But, after 3.5 years I now know about their construction methods, their shortcuts, their materials and it is my opinion that they do not deserve the price premium they command. With their QC you may get a perfect trailer, as many have, or you may get a lot of problems, as some have. Yet even if you get a perfect trailer, you need to be aware of the blemishes, like the converter/charger that will cook your batteries. Yes, it is all my fault. I did not have to buy an Airstream. I can even accept that there are none better, but I am still disappointed, having owned boats and cars with real quality built in.
Larry

I don't understand the constant harangue about Batteries and Battery Chargers. Our 2013 30' International is plugged in 24/7/365 except when on the road or camping without full hookup. Original batteries and charger. Same thing with my boat in FL. In that the original charger finally went after 6 years.

[franklyfrank]

One major component of the increased cost of an Airstream is the Aluminum shell and Frame construction.
Go and spend some time on SOB forums and read about all the Delamination and Moisture problems with fiberglass campers.

[MsTara]

I am picking up my new Airstream Bambi 16' tomorrow. I have also been down the same road as you. If I made decisions based upon this forum (or any forum) I would never step outside my door or buy a single thing.

Many people have said why they went with Airstream and even the ones that discount it still have one. I believe that is telling.

Why did I buy it... Well, it is gorgeous and unique but that is a personal thing.

I also thought about aerodynamics and driving down the road and this was a major seller for me. Check out this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cMg42sW6NU

and watch the difference in handling.


The final element that sold me on it was just walking in and out of multiple different RV's. I used to own a Class A Damon Daybreak which was a very nice trailer on its own, but not very easy to get up and go. When I decided I wanted to get out of a Class A I started to look at trailers both old and new (if you want to see how your trailer will last long term look at the older models for sale and see how they weathered). I looked at Casitas and they looked cheap as they aged, I also looked at TABs and walked in them and they didn't feel luxurious. I can go on and on about each of the models that I looked at and what specifically I didn't like. At the end of the day, I decided on an Airstream KNOWING the aluminum and the aircraft styling meant I would need to be more diligent on maintenance but 10, 20, 30, and even 50 (I won't be around) years from now this trailer will still be beautiful, on the road and safe to pull.

MsTara

[dkottum]

Great video demonstration why it is also important to consider Airstream's independent suspension and low center of gravity. And perhaps why not to mess with it.

Similar considerations for selecting a tow vehicle.