Visit our Popular Forums

darkStar · 06-27-2003, 08:55 AM

Hello,

In the course of looking for a trailer, it seems that once they get to be 25' or more they typically have a layout something like this:

bedroom - bath - kitchen - living

Has anyone ever seen a layout like the following?

bath - kitchen - living - bedroom

Would there be any reason why such a layout would be bad? It seems like if the bed could be folded, one could create a larger 'living area' (i.e. livng + bedroom), during the day. Does this layout put too much weight in the rear?

Thanks!

RoadKingMoe · 06-27-2003, 09:39 AM

Putting the bath at either end of the trailer usually means the holding tanks are under that end. To prevent imbalance, especially if the bath is at the rear where frame sag from the weight can also be a problem, the tanks have to be smaller.

The kitchen is also one of the heavier parts of the trailer, so putting it towards the rear, in addition to the bath, can result in a sway prone tail-heavy trailer. OTOH, putting them both in the front would result in a lot of tongue weight. Front kitchen models are already heavier on the tongue.

There are some trailers which have the bath on the opposite end of the trailer from the bedroom. That means that anyone who wants to go to bed early has to trek across the living room to go to the bathroom. It also means that the noise of activity in the living room is right next to where someone is trying to sleep.

Beds that make into couches (or vice versa), aren't as comfortable as a real bed. There's also the issue of making it up and tearing it down every day. While that might be okay in a weekender trailer, there are many customers who wouldn't buy a trailer without a permanent bed.

There are many reasons for that order of rooms. In fact, in many front-bedroom fivers, you'll see the same order, just in the opposite direction. The bedroom at opposite end from the living area gives privacy and sound isolation. The bath between them allow it to function as both a master and public bathroom. It also puts the weight of the holding tanks over the axles on a trailer (this is less of an issue with a fiver where tongue weight is twice that of a trailer). The galley/dinette following next puts weight where it will provide good tongue weight without the additional tongue weight of a front kitchen. And the couch across the front allows those on it to look directly back at people in the dinette/galley, as well as view a TV, without having to turn almost 90 degrees, as a couch along the side (i.e. in a motorhome or front kitchen trailer) requires.

Those are the reasons you see the layout you do in so many Airstreams.

darkStar · 06-27-2003, 10:35 AM

Maurice -

Wow, lots of good points there! We plan to do a lot of work in our trailer, while we are fulltiming. (We are authors, armed with laptops.) Our goal is too create the largest workspace we can, in the 28-31' trailer. This goal is in conflict with a separate bedroom which takes up maybe 25% of the trailer's living space and is not used during the day. We're not too worried about conflicting activities because we won't be housing extra people. Your points about sway and towability are however, very important.

What I gather from your post is that, in general, it's important to keep the heaviest elements centered over the axles as much as possible. Is it also true that the black and grey water tanks are always under the bathroom, or is it possible to put them a few feet away? (Maybe towards the center of the trailer.)

How about something like this:

closets - bath - kitchen / tanks - living - bedroom

Thanks again!

-Bert

RoadKingMoe · 06-27-2003, 10:49 AM

The toilet is a straight shot down into the black tank. The grey drain lines also need to be above the floor to drain into the grey tank, as well as to help keep them from freezing in cold weather. So they don't have to be exactly over the grey tank, but there has to be something above floor level to run them inside of.

If our large fold-out table wasn't going to be a sewing table, it would be large enough when folded half-way out for a notebook AND a printer. The writing table on the other side is plenty large enough for a 17" PowerBook.

Take a look at the pictures of our trailer by clicking on the Long, LONG Trailer link in my signature. At the end, there's also a picture of a floorplan I did for the 22' International that has a rear bath/sofa-bed combination.

darkStar · 06-27-2003, 11:15 AM

Maurice -

Beautiful pictures! I looked at the floorplan you created, I'm curious about the fact that you did that. Are there businesses or consultants that will design and build custom floorplans? (I read somewhere that you might budget $300 / foot to re-do a trailer, does that sound about right?)

I never really thought about the weight distribution issues before, I'm sure there are many other such 'hidden' issues, so I'm guessing that I probably would want to work with somebody knowledgeable in designing a custom plan. Do you know about such services?

Thanks!

RoadKingMoe · 06-27-2003, 11:25 AM

Airstream does that for commercial customers. Just bring money!

There are other issues like where to put the water heater and furnace, the wheelwells, etc. (oh yeah, electrical converter, batteries, water pump, vent stacks for holding tanks, where to drill holes in spars for electrical wiring, both 12V and 120V... getting the idea this won't be inexpensive?)

darkStar · 06-27-2003, 12:10 PM

So all of this gets me back to a different thread... I'm trying to locate floorplans for all the different models over the last 20 years or so, seeing if there are any existing models that might be a bit closer to what we're looking for. Sounds like we'd be way better off refurbishing or doing a minor customization than doing a total customization. Floorplans similar in detail to the floorplan you drew up would head us in right direction.

59toaster · 06-27-2003, 12:28 PM

Maurice covered the issues of the weigh location. Airstream did have some issues with the rear bath on longer models in the 70's.

You name it Airstream has done it as far as floor plan. www.vintageairstream.com has a huge archive of photos of about every Airstream made. Might take a look through that and you can see different designe elements that have been used over the years and mix and match to your taste. Some of the older units had a corner bath (our 59 Caravanner has this) with only a shower and toilet. The vanity was foward of it closer to the axle. The bath weight of this style might be acceptable in a longer unit but it will make for a smaller bed. You could skip the vanity and use the Galley sink and save some weight and floor space. Use a smaller Black water tank to keep weight down and locate the grey water close to the axle.

One thing you will notice, like Maurice pointed out, the Galley is almost always over the axle(s). If you were to move the Galley the next logical location would be against the front wall.

A good rule of thumb is the tounge weight of the trailer should be about 10% the weight of the trailer. Keep that in mind when locating heavy components. If the trailer were complety bare its going to ballance about right just by the placement of the axle(s) from the tounge. That will help when planning where items will go. Closer to the axle the better but to a cetain extent you could offset one item from another on the opposite side of the axle.

Chose your materials wisely. While 3/4 inch is the material of choice for home cabinetry it's a bit much for a camper and the weight ads up quick. I am about to redo some of the cabinets in ours and I plan to use 1/4 inch ply with finsh side and 1.5x1.5 in the corners to fasten it too. That would save an easy 50% of the weight over building it out of 3/4.

darkStar · 07-14-2003, 11:43 AM

Yet another entry from the 'wish list' department...

Anyone ever seen an Airstream with the following features?

- 25' - 28'
- front end like the 25' Safari ss, (i.e. sofa and dinette (preferably street side) )
- queen bed (not a corner bed)
- roughly Safari weight (no more than 7300# GVWR, preferably 6500#)

The 28' CCD comes pretty close - may be too many $$ though...

Thanks!

darkStar · 07-31-2003, 04:23 PM

Kind of resurrecting an old thread, hoping new eyes might have some info!

***** Now with new improved Questions! *******

A couple of questions:

Did Airstream ever make a trailer in the 25-31' range, 7500 lb GVWR max, with a rear queen, a streetside dinette, and a couch?

Or, barring that,

Has anyone ever moved the door?

Is that just a horrendous idea?

(We're thinking the 28' CCD would be perfect if they swapped the door and the dinette.)

85MH325 · 07-31-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by darkStar
Kind of resurrecting an old thread, hoping new eyes might have some info!

Has anyone ever moved the door? Is that just a horrendous idea?

(We're thinking the 28' CCD would be perfect if they swapped the door and the dinette.)

I don't think it would be practical to try to "move" the door in an already manufactured trailer, but I'm fairly certain that there's some leeway if you ordered it; provided of course that there's not some engineering issue that would prevent it. We have a second door that was installed in ours at the factory on custom order at the time it was built.

I believe that the mid-90s 30' had that configuration. It's the configuration of our 34' also. The current 30' Classic can be had with a streetside dinette and has an island queen in the BR.

Here's the current Classic 30' floorplan...

darkStar · 07-31-2003, 06:14 PM

85MH325 -

Ouch! That'll teach me to have a Mac

, I remember .bmp files! those are Windows proprietary files.

Anyway, I checked the weights document and it seems all of those 30'ers from the 90s were HEAVY... did I miss one in the 7500 lb range?

Thanks

p.s. You guys know what Windows XP stands for?

eXtra Proprietary

85MH325 · 07-31-2003, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by darkStar
85MH325 -

Ouch! That'll teach me to have a Mac , I remember .bmp files! those are Windows proprietary files.

Anyway, I checked the weights document and it seems all of those 30'ers from the 90s were HEAVY... did I miss one in the 7500 lb range?

Thanks
p.s. You guys know what Windows XP stands for?
eXtra Proprietary

I steadfastly refuse to switch from WIN2k! XP is bizarre!
Sorry... when I attached the .bmp, I thought it would display like a .jpg. The .bmp is just the floorplan for the Classic 30. In any event, the 3003 Classic 30 in the floorplan you want is 7230lbs (dry) according to www.airstream.com. check it out! My 34 is <ONLY> 8500 lbs dry!!!

Roger

darkStar · 07-31-2003, 07:14 PM

Close but no cigar...

We're hoping to be in the 6300 - 7500 GVWR range, not dry weight....

thenewkid64 · 07-31-2003, 07:25 PM

Ok, lets make the search even harder. I know of a floorplan that is from the door, bathroom on left, then kitchen/couch then double bed. The couch could be swapped out for a dinette.

Here is the catch, it is a rear door 70's model Argosy trailer. I have seen two of them. One was on Ebay a few months back and the other was in a dealer lot last summer. The door is behind the wheels in front of the rearmost rib. I think it was a 26 or 28 foot model. In that size your total weight would be under 7300 lbs.
Keep looking, you will find a fit or it will find you. Either way you win!

darkStar · 07-31-2003, 08:10 PM

Brett -

Ok, this could be cool

The best 'list' I have of the various trailers is a pdf file called 'weights' - that seems to give a pretty good overview of all the models, lengths, and weights, by year.

According to that document the Argosy's were 86 and 87... Is that right?

Thanks

InsideOut · 07-31-2003, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Sorry... when I attached the .bmp, I thought it would display like a .jpg.

Here it is as a .jpg

Shari

darkStar · 07-31-2003, 09:36 PM

Shari -

Thanks! I guess my question is, isn't this trailer way over 7300 lbs. wet?

InsideOut · 07-31-2003, 10:40 PM

I don't know much about the newer Classic trailers...but my guess is yes, it's more than 7300 lbs wet.

Shari

85MH325 · 08-01-2003, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by InsideOut
Here it is as a .jpg

Shari

Thanks Shari!!! I've learned now...

I just sucked in a .bmp and reformatted it as a .jpg in another post this am. although, now that i think about it, it was displayed on that post as a .bmp.... hmmm....???? so why didn't mine just display instead of showing up as a link?

Roger