Adios Airstream

[Gene]

As Mefly says, the reputation among the general public about Airstreams seems intact. When asked how we like our Airstream we tell people good things and the QC isn't very good. They are always surprised. They are also shocked at the prices for them.

They have not been following the Forum but a lot of people do. I guess those people don't ask "how do you like your Airstream" because they know.

Gene

[SilverRanger]

Originally Posted by mefly2

Most of us buy a "new" (as opposed to used) product with the expectation that after sale service needs will be the exception rather than the rule as it apppears in many of these posts. If the product is designed and produced as advertised, there should be little or no need for warranty service other than those items of periodic maintenance.
...
There are new buyers coming into the market mix all of the time. For those of us on a modest income, the AS is, indeed, a huge life-$aving$ investment - or, for some, a white elephant.

Hopefully, AS admin will frequent this forum and read some of the specific issues presented; then, it is up to them to make appropriate adjustments in their production and marketing...

Great observations. That's exactly one of the primary reasons we bought new, because of the expectations that service needs would be the exception. It wasn't, but it never reached the status of a white elephant.
We persevered through the significant defects with the dealership, and I took care of most the minor stuff myself. The fact remains, it wasn't even usable for the first two months. No problem, we've more than made up for the lost time.

It did represent a huge investment of our savings, but we wanted to live the dream with something we could use immediately and not be concerned about the time consuming maintenance and repair associated with our vintage AS. And we were not in a position to keep trading up to newer models before any real problems appear.

Unlike some posting here, I find it absurd that I should 'expect' problems with a new Airstream and should develop an aggressive, detailed maintenance routine on a premium product during the warranty period. Although, I faithfully performed all of the recommended maintenance, I'm not obsessed with the appearance of the Airstream. We bought something to use, not to be a slave to. We're too busy camping in it to be polishing it. And, I'm nearly convinced the tree sap that covers the roof may be the reason it's not leaking yet.

Every other major purchase I've ever made that had a warranty was repaired without question or hassle, and without selective cost sharing repairs, or the disingenuous non-disclosure agreements.

I would never dream of starting a thread where I would limit the discussion to only positive (or negative) comments. Nor would I have the audacity to tell anyone I didn't want to hear their opinions and experiences, because I'm still encouraged by every successful story, and still learn from the problems people have. Please consider the possibility that your good fortune in getting an Airstream that was perfect out of the box just may be due to the consistent feedback and criticisms on this forum, and should that be the case... glad I could be of help.

And, you can bet there's someone from Airstream monitoring this forum. The forum was mentioned in all the QC or product improvement seminars at Alumapalooza for three years running. And, on a separate visit to Jackson Center about 3 years ago, we were camped in the Terra Port next to their marketing director, who was staying in a 34' AS while visiting the factory (I guess he phoned it in the rest of the time). We had about a 40 minute conversation, some of it on quality control. During the course of the conversation, he cited nearly every issue mentioned on the forums. I also would like AS to participate here more, but I believe their attempts to manage, or limit, the conversation doesn't go over too well.

[danlehosky]

SilverRanger.... Hear Hear.... Very well said.

Dan

[Fly at Night]

Originally Posted by danlehosky

Doug, is Boesheild a Boeing product? I've got a cousin who works in the 737 plant in Renton. I don't like him that much and haven't talked to him in a while, but if he could get me a couple of gallons I'd give him a call.

I'm thinking outloud here but has anyone ever tried grout sealer? Seems like some pretty tough stuff. Bob Cross what do you think about this? AQUA MIX. It's a commercial water based sealer used on concrete and tile floors that has good results. I know it seals, don't know if the sealing properties would prevent the corrosion.

Dan

Yes, it is.

"It was developed by the Boeing Company for longterm metal protection. Licensed by Boeing’s Materials TechnologyLaboratories Boeshield T-9® is effective due its excellent water displacement, penetration, and protective film development."

You can find it on the Airstream website..... https://store.airstream.com/product_...roducts_id=375

Or here.......

RV & Trailer | Boeshield T-9®

Boeshield T-9® | Corrosion Protection and Waterproof Lubrication

Boeshield Canada

[danlehosky]

Fly, thanks. I'm gonna ask ny cousin first. Free is better.

Dan

[robwok]

I've read most of this thread. I have a 64, and have spent more time on the forums reading about Airstream than working on mine. Fortunatly, mine is in great shape with little rot. Very little rust on the frame, and I go out every heavy rain to see if it's leaking after I sealed everything I could find. I still need to polish it and reseal everything, and try the blower method.

In the end, you have to assume all companies, including Thor and their favorite stepchild are looking at maximizing profits. Those profit turnarounds can be short, or long term. If you're thinking short term, you're going to make the coolest, sexiest model out there. The one thing that really disturbed me in this thread was the suggested eagerness that the executives had about putting in USB ports. That's a $2.00 enhancement to an outlet. There was no discussion about researching new sealants, or a new sealant process for the clearcoat. To re-hash tires is ridulous. Tires are a fashion item almost - like curtains. Many folks change them quickly. Though they are life and death in some cases, they are not a permanent part of the trailer like skylights, windows, or appliances. There was a comment on here about Airstream using the same components as other RVs'. Why use RV grade instead of Marine grade? Someone with a little Six Sigma or TQM training, and expertise in analytics needs to look at the ROI of putting a marginal product out there with lots of service issues vs putting a good one out there.

Maybe they have. If you have 700 units, and you save $5,000 per unit with substandard processes, and out of 700, only 50 take advantage of the warranty or notice within time, at an average price of even $3,000 per total warranty reimbursement, it would be fiscally judicious to deliver substandard process.

Unfortunately, it sounds like newer Airstreams aren't built much better than the 70s trailers. (yeah, I have a 60's trailer so I'm a snob - just kidding) It's funny that the guy with the 2012 is supporting Airstream. I would too if I dropped that kind of coin. Let's give it a year and I'm going to check these profiles again in the repair section.

Airstream knows that if you have enough money to spend on a new trailer, you're not desperate. I do feel bad for those that can't afford to buy a trailer with problems. Some of these folks may buy these expensive trailers, and the carport to go with them, and park them for most of the year as a status symbol.

What would happen to the poor guy that decided to full time in a new AS? Where does he live waiting 7 months for repair? You can bet that if it happened to me, I'd be requiring a loaner - same as the rental when my car is in the shop.

It's a frustrating read. From what I can tell looking at the changes that Wally made, it was an experimentation in improvement, not in flashy gimmicks. Screw the idea of an Eddie Bauer edition. How about a rugged wilderness edition - or a waterproof edition? Why not an aluminum floor with a plastic honeycomb center? Why not prodex in the walls? Why not marine quality appliances and fittings.

whew. rant over. Need a nap.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by danlehosky

I'm thinking outloud here but has anyone ever tried grout sealer? Seems like some pretty tough stuff. Bob Cross what do you think about this? AQUA MIX. It's a commercial water based sealer used on concrete and tile floors that has good results. I know it seals, don't know if the sealing properties would prevent the corrosion.

Grout sealer is likely to brittle for use on a travel trailer, which flexes every time it's towed. Grout sealant is typically used for tile shower stalls and the like, which don't move once the sealant is applied.

On the other hand, there are joint sealants used in the boating industry that may do the trick. One in particular is called "Flexbond 5000 Marine Epoxy." It's terribly expensive— a whopping $27 for a 9.8-ounce tube at West Marine— so you'd only want to use it on a joint you can't seal any other way.

[kb0zke]

I've been away from the forums for a couple of weeks, and today I read this thread all the way through all 247 posts. Airstream is a really old company as far as RV companies go. Heartland, maker of our mpg, is much newer, but is also part of the Thor conglomeration. They, too, have an active owners forum, and owners aren't shy about posting their complaints and compliments. As a result, they have implemented a new QC program in which they pull random rigs off the line and inspect them with a fine-tooth comb. That will help some of the issues, but not the poorly-engineered ones. Perhaps Airstream might want to incorporate a similar program.

Heartland executives do monitor the forum, although they rarely participate. I think that's why they instituted their new QC program. Foretravel also has an active owners forum, and company people are also on that. Unlike Airstream or Heartland, though, the Foretravel execs do participate in discussions. I suspect that more than a few Foretravel changes have been made because of comments on the forum.

Since any full-time coach we buy will be a used one, I'm depending on owners forums to let me know what to look for. I fully expect that whatever we buy will have some problems, and we're setting money aside to take care of those things. I understand that I'll always have repairs and maintenance to deal with, just as I do with my cars and my house.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by SilverRanger

Great observations. That's exactly one of the primary reasons we bought new, because of the expectations that service needs would be the exception. It wasn't, but it never reached the status of a white elephant.

Unlike some posting here, I find it absurd that I should 'expect' problems with a new Airstream and should develop an aggressive, detailed maintenance routine on a premium product during the warranty period.

And, I'm nearly convinced the tree sap that covers the roof may be the reason it's not leaking yet.

Every other major purchase I've ever made that had a warranty was repaired without question or hassle….

And, you can bet there's someone from Airstream monitoring this forum. The forum was mentioned in all the QC or product improvement seminars at Alumapalooza for three years running. And, on a separate visit to Jackson Center about 3 years ago, we were camped in the Terra Port next to their marketing director, who was staying in a 34' AS while visiting the factory (I guess he phoned it in the rest of the time). We had about a 40 minute conversation, some of it on quality control. During the course of the conversation, he cited nearly every issue mentioned on the forums. I also would like AS to participate here more, but I believe their attempts to manage, or limit, the conversation doesn't go over too well.

I think Silver's post is great.

I picked out some things—

We bought new too because I didn't want to be fixing things for quite a while. I was finishing a house remodel and have plenty to take care of with 37 acres. I knew from the Forum about some issues, but didn't know how bad it could be. The dealer was awful but when I contacted Airstream they approved everything I wanted, things the dealer refused to do. Later the dealer damaged our trailer, fixed some and paid for the rest. After that we made the 1,400 mile trip to JC for warranty work.

Given the few dealers (I just discovered the Colo. Springs dealer is no more, so only one in Colorado), that's all the more reason for the dealers to be watched closely and those that are bad and don't care, to be kicked out.

Everything needs maintenance, and RV's are made to low or mediocre standards, but I don't accept that should be the way things work. "Premium" should mean premium. If we never asked for improvements, maybe we'd be subjects of Elizabeth II.

I think most of us agree someone at Airstream watches the Forum, but what they do with the info is more important.

And if they do improve something, they sure don't want to give anyone here credit.

Gene

And I think tree sap may be the perfect sealant. Great idea!

[Schu]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

I think Silver's post is great.

I picked out some things—

We bought new too because I didn't want to be fixing things for quite a while. I was finishing a house remodel and have plenty to take care of with 37 acres. I knew from the Forum about some issues, but didn't know how bad it could be. The dealer was awful but when I contacted Airstream they approved everything I wanted, things the dealer refused to do. Later the dealer damaged our trailer, fixed some and paid for the rest. After that we made the 1,400 mile trip to JC for warranty work.

Given the few dealers (I just discovered the Colo. Springs dealer is no more, so only one in Colorado), that's all the more reason for the dealers to be watched closely and those that are bad and don't care, to be kicked out.

Everything needs maintenance, and RV's are made to low or mediocre standards, but I don't accept that should be the way things work. "Premium" should mean premium. If we never asked for improvements, maybe we'd be subjects of Elizabeth II.

I think most of us agree someone at Airstream watches the Forum, but what they do with the info is more important.

And if they do improve something, they sure don't want to give anyone here credit.

Gene

And I think tree sap may be the perfect sealant. Great idea!

Gene,I watch the forums and do appreciate the discussions. There are take aways and changes that are implemented based on various topics that appear here ...so thank you for caring and sharing. And there are three sides to every story.

[xrvr]

As I tried to explain way back in this thread before being stopped by the mods for responding to a personal attack on me, by attacking another. Jim

[xrvr]

My methods were wrong but the point was we only heard part of the story, not the AS side. Jim

[mpl]

So...
After read this thread and a few others; that creaking sound emanating from the floor near the shower of my 2010 Flying Cloud 27' FB has me concerned.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by mpl

So...
After read this thread and a few others; that creaking sound emanating from the floor near the shower of my 2010 Flying Cloud 27' FB has me concerned.

Creaking better than squishy...it may be just the floor covering separating.

Suggest an inspection though.

Bob

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Schu

Gene,I watch the forums and do appreciate the discussions. There are take aways and changes that are implemented based on various topics that appear here ...so thank you for caring and sharing. And there are three sides to every story.

Schu, no doubt there are 3 sides to every story and there are even more. Simple answers are often too simple.

So, what improvements has Airstream made that came from suggestions here on the Forum? What suggestions has Airstream not implemented and why?

The last engagement by the company—on the town hall thread—ended badly for everyone. Why not engage again? Sure, there will be flaming. It can get hot here, but that's business. There is, I believe, more to be gained by debate and discussion than by keeping apart. Airstream and Thor execs come across as "suits" and unresponsive because they present themselves that way. In my 3 trips to JC, I've never seen anyone in a suit, but it's the perception that matters. I don't think the company can afford to stand aside from the Forum.

And then there is the original poster's problem—what is the company story on Mojave's issues?

There are a lot of other questions I can ask, but I am sure you can't answer them unless I come to JC and get you drunk; while that idea has appeal, I can't make it there this year and you are too smart to fall for that one.

Gene

[Fly at Night]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Creaking better than squishy...it may be just the floor covering separating.

Suggest an inspection though.

Bob

Shouldn't some creaking be expected, especially when the stabilizers are not deployed? These are movable objects. The ground underneath is also subject to movement, especially here in the PNW due to the Cascadia faultline.

I have a creak going into the bedroom (no squish). What kind of inspection should I pursue? Thanks.

[masseyfarm]

"I have a creak going into the bedroom (no squish). What kind of inspection should I pursue?"

I would say the creak is from sitting too long in one position. More exercise is always good. And be thankful it is not a squish eh!

Dave

Originally Posted by Fly at Night

Shouldn't some creaking be expected, especially when the stabilizers are not deployed? These are movable objects. The ground underneath is also subject to movement, especially here in the PNW due to the Cascadia faultline.

I have a creak going into the bedroom (no squish). What kind of inspection should I pursue? Thanks.

[Fly at Night]

massey, lol!

I have since searched the forum; the consensus seems to be "live with it" - have the nervous breakdown should a squish be detected.

I'm also trying to tell myself that squeak means some give which isn't always a bad thing. I know airplanes are designed to give a bit.

The creak isn't as loud as it once was, so I can live with it.

[tpi]

I've had creaky floors in my 05 since new. They come and go, and sometimes shift locations (possibly due to temperature, humidity, gradient, etc.)

I'm not concerned.

[Fly at Night]

Originally Posted by tpi

I've had creaky floors in my 05 since new. They come and go, and sometimes shift locations (possibly due to temperature, humidity, gradient, etc.)

I'm not concerned.

tpi, exactly.