Adios Airstream

[Fly at Night]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Bob, the floor space at the factory seems to be used up, so they might have to build an addition. I think they've had OSHA problems and I think that's why they prohibit photography during the tour. They are also very anti-union.

I wonder where they draw their labor force and what type of background they have. It probably comes from surrounding counties. They are mostly rural with some small towns. Do their workers get good pay? Do they have any experience with metalwork, RV's, plumbing, electrical, flooring, etc.? I would expect that they don't and may not get much training before they become journeymen who may be much on their own. Those must be the guys who screw the skylights on too tight and do a sloppy job with sealant.

One of the beginning jobs at the factory is doing the insulation. It is difficult to do fiberglass correctly (there was an article in Fine Homebuilding about this in the past year). It needs to be sealed all around and never compressed. Many guys in the construction trades do a bad job with the "pink stuff" and the R value comes out low. Do these guys at JC know how to do this right? The article showed R-19 fiberglass at best comes out R-16 or 17 in real use. Two inches used in Airstreams would be nominally R-8.5, but if not done well, could be R-5 or less.

It is hard to build these things—so much crammed into a small space and so many different trades involved. It would take a long time to teach someone how to do it, and do they? The evidence comes from the sloppy practices often reported—crap left in the trailers shows a disdain for the product—and poor workmanship seen in so many trailers. If you buy one, hope you have one built by old timers.

Gene

Good question. Note how "Glassdoor" - an anonymous forum for employees to voice issues/praise/concern about their employer is bereft. Let us pray that is not because the AS workforce is illiterate.
Working at Airstream | Glassdoor

[mutcth]

Originally Posted by Fly at Night

I am curious as to the qualifications of a dealership's "Airstream technician" especially when the dealership sells other RV brands besides Airstream..

Me too. I'm not sure it's a plum assignment at a multi-brand shop. Tight access, lots of metal working potential. I bet repairs on Airstreams take longer than on SOBs, reducing capability of billing more book rate repairs in a single day (if the RV world follows the automotive dealer model.)

I also wonder about how hard it really is to fix a leak. We don't know the particulars of this situation. But an awful lot of leak repair is the initial detection (a bit tricky) and then squirting goo into the seam/rivet hole to stop said leak. Bigger leaks due to misfitted panels require bigger work - and I'd shudder to have that done at a shop that didn't know how to fit panels...

Tom

[Mojave]

Originally Posted by FlashSilver

Originally Posted by Bruce B
The owners obligation was to return it to the nearest authorized dealer. This is something they elected not to do....

Bruce

I don't think this is right, my warranty says I can take it to any dealer. Warranty work is profitable for the dealer so choose one carefully and the nearest, or the one who sold you the unit, is not always the best choice.

Just to clarify, again, we took it to the place Airstream told us to take it to. We fullfilled our obligation as per the AS warranty dept.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Fly at Night

Note how "Glassdoor" - an anonymous forum for employees to voice issues/praise/concern about their employer is bereft. Let us pray that is not because the AS workforce is illiterate.
Working at Airstream | Glassdoor

Interesting thought. Jackson Ctr is in the midst of farm country, about equal distances between Toledo and Dayton. Such areas can be pretty much stuck in an earlier time, but they probably have basic reading skills. Wages in such areas may be depressed as they are in most of rural America and expectations low. Employees may not have much experience and have to learn by watching the, perhaps bad, works habits of the more experienced employees. They probably don't know about the website nd maybe don't know much about the internet.

Airstream probably doesn't attract better educated and experienced workers from the big cities because it is not a place many people would want to live in. There's not much going on for a city dweller.

Gene

[ROBERT CROSS]

GM has Tech training centers and accredited colleges all over the Country as do the other Auto Companies.

AS has one at JC, I'd be surprised if there's 50 JC trained tech's in the country.
Of course, that begs the question, how do you define training?

POI......are the dealer principles "trained" at JC?

Prove me rong......PLEASE

Bob

[xrvr]

First off, If it had been me , I still would have taken it to an authorized dealer. If I. Was willing to go across the country to buy the thing, then I would have taken it to a real dealer no matter what AS said. Second, demeaning remarks about AS employees is out of line here. Judy my opinions, jim

[danlehosky]

Judy!!!, Who is Judy?

[Fly at Night]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Interesting thought. Jackson Ctr is in the midst of farm country, about equal distances between Toledo and Dayton. Such areas can be pretty much stuck in an earlier time, but they probably have basic reading skills. Wages in such areas may be depressed as they are in most of rural America and expectations low. Employees may not have much experience and have to learn by watching the, perhaps bad, works habits of the more experienced employees. They probably don't know about the website nd maybe don't know much about the internet.

Airstream probably doesn't attract better educated and experienced workers from the big cities because it is not a place many people would want to live in. There's not much going on for a city dweller.
Gene

In other words, mid-America where patriotism reigns supreme and its icons are worshipped? Airstream is as iconic as the stars and stripes and apple pie. However, it would appear something is amiss with the quality of Airstream workmanship.

So, is this a problem with Airstream or the bigger picture, i.e. something is terribly wrong with America?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by danlehosky

Judy!!!, Who is Judy?

Judy in the sky with dia...oop's rong song.


Bob

[xrvr]

Judy is the spell checker on this IPad, obviously a lot smarter than I am. I wonder if she is from western Ohio? Still laughing!!!!! Jim

[Fly at Night]

Originally Posted by danlehosky

Judy!!!, Who is Judy?

Somewhere Over The Rainbow - Judy Garland 1939 - YouTube

[tpi]

I would think finding the leaks could be problematic, even with the positive pressure air and bubble technique. So many potential entry points. Not impossible, just may take a couple trips back to get it right. Thus my emphasis on the fundamental of a rot resistant floor. this way the damage isn't magnified 10x.

There's really good advice re: moisture meter, frequent inspections etc. I'd suggest all follow it. But in a thread like this, the question I'd ask is why we should have to do this? I don't use a moisture meter on my car.

Frequently we're too easy to please. Especially RV customers. All too often in rvnet there's someone who's bought a white box, six months later filled with rot and mold. Someone asks if he's followed the 6 monthly roof inspections, and then blames him for the problem because he hasn't. Come on the product should not be this tender. If the product truly requires 6 month roof inspections, then the product is not suitable for purpose (at least for the typical person with lots of irons in the fire).

You may have seen my griping on the generator threads. Here's a product thats essentially had little or no development for at least 15 years. A product at least somewhat unsuitable for purpose. Stinky, doesn't adjust to elevation, not suitable to operate in the rain. The tech is easily and cheaply available at this point to grossly improve the product.

We can do better. Lets expect it.

[danlehosky]

OH, That Judy.......

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Interesting thought. Jackson Ctr is in the midst of farm country, about equal distances between Toledo and Dayton. Such areas can be pretty much stuck in an earlier time, but they probably have basic reading skills. Wages in such areas may be depressed as they are in most of rural America and expectations low. Employees may not have much experience and have to learn by watching the, perhaps bad, works habits of the more experienced employees. They probably don't know about the website nd maybe don't know much about the internet.

Airstream probably doesn't attract better educated and experienced workers from the big cities because it is not a place many people would want to live in. There's not much going on for a city dweller.

Gene

I have lived in rural towns the size of Jackson Center and in (near) some large cities. Some of the brightest most gifted individuals I have ever met have lived far away from the city......
I hope you are not suggesting that small town citizens are somehow less capable workers or of inferior intellect.....
Bruce

[danlehosky]

Damn that auto correct......

[Phoenix]

A rhetorical comment and question...

Some car manufacturers remove moisture and reduce corrosion inside doors by adding drain holes, zinc dipping the entire door and/or forcing air through the inside of the assembly. Is this practical in an Airstream or other RV?

It seems an Airstream is a hybrid of older aircraft and home construction materials and techniques. Perhaps, updating the design to take advantage of modern automobile and aircraft materials like carbon fiber and honeycomb stainless steel, would reduce the affects of moisture and corrosion, improve rigidity, strength and impact resistance, and minimize weight; and, as a bonus, reduce assembly labor by replacing inefficient rivets with modern adhesives and fastening systems.

But, then, would the end product still be an Airstream?

[tpi]

Phoenix, I think thats an excellent point. I think if the updated materials were basically hidden, such as flooring material, it would still be an Airstream. If it had obvious changes such as dumping the riveted construction, then it wouldn't.

[Phoenix]

I have seen alloy wheels with rivets in them, which probably serve no function other than as superficial decoration. Also, several pickup truck accessories, like locking fuel doors, have simulated rivets or screw/bolt heads to make them look "rugged". I suppose this could be done on Airstream skins, too. At least in this application, rivets wouldn't contribute to leakage and/or structural problems.

In addition, many aircraft and missiles use flush rivets in fuselage panels. An Airstream skin could be stamped to look like it had flush rivets, which were in actuality only dimples in the aluminum. Or, a carbon fiber skin could be plated, bonded with metal foil or covered with metallic paint to give the appearance of an aluminum panel. The question then becomes how important it is to preserve the actual use of aluminum panels in construction.

Is an Argosy an Airstream? I think most of us consider them so; or, at the very least, a fraternal twin. What if the Argosy was carbon fiber painted white, instead of aluminum painted white? Would it still be an Argosy?

Similarly, would a carbon fiber Airstream painted metallic silver, or with a thin metal film bonded to the outside surface, still be an Airstream?

I think if Thor could answer these "philosophical questions", they could reduce costs and increase reliability by switching to newer materials and construction techniques.

Then, if we could just get Thor to quit putting Goodyear Marathons on Airstreams, we could move our discussions to the best boondocking locations that look remote, but are close to town and nobody knows about them.

[tpi]

Good points Phoenix. For me the rivets aren't a deal breaker if the product could be made better. I'm not sure for others. I'd even go so far as silver painted aluminum skin like the Camplites, as long as it had the traditional Airstream shape. Not so sure others would go with such a stretch though. The current clear coat aluminum is beautiful. Perhaps it would be incompatible with welded construction, etc. The rivets help facilitate panel replacement.

For me they solve the floor rot, which should be possible with just the floor material, then you have a heck of a sturdy long life trailer. At that point any little leak would not be such the emergency issue.

[danlehosky]

Phoenix, interesting ideas. I have never thought of AS as being in a rut. The economics of production limit the ability to support engineering. They simply cannot support the design changes and innovate like the big automakers can. Numbers are numbers. I do think QC could be much better. Boy this thread is really off topic......

Dan