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Old 06-25-2012, 06:36 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by danlehosky View Post
Gene........??? Our Laureate.......

Good idea RWG.

Dan
I'm ok with Gene. If I could be bold enough to propose a process - - I'd suggest the person make a draft with some agreed upon points, let people comment a bit on the draft. Then go for a final which can be posted somewhere for 30-days to collect signatures. To be useful, the signatores have to commit to real name and address and contact email.

What do you think will happen when such a document hits the CEO's desk with 500 potential customers signed to the bottom?
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:37 PM   #366
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Still no one forced any of us to buy. Poor losers? Jim
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Old 06-25-2012, 06:53 PM   #367
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RWG, Thinking about polls and other ways information is gathered and used a well written statement with 1000 valid signatures would be significant. It would somewhat represent fifty milloin dollars of potential revenue. That carries weight. Ironically as I've said, you CAN influence with your checkbook Sometimes it's the only way. Just from a PR standpoint I think a statement of dissatisfaction would be important. I will be happy to contribute some thoughts on collaboration between design and production. There's plenty of knowledge on this Forum. Lets use it.

Dan
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:15 PM   #368
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Still no one forced any of us to buy. Poor losers? Jim
And nobody is twisting your arm to read this thread (or any thread related to quality control). Unsubscribe from it. Nobody in this thread is being rude to you or anyone else, while you continue with your disparaging remarks toward those who are participating here.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:20 PM   #369
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Sure, 1000 would be a knock out. I'd be on cloud 9 if we got a few hundred. And, I think a few hundred would be very powerful.

I think there should be two parts. A list of generalized complaints such as poor warranty routine, leaky roofs and the like, and then a list of specific changes desired. The changes would be such things as revised warranty. Without specific changes requested, it will be guaranteed to receive a generic "we feel your pain and promise to do better in the future" kind of response. e.g. useless bull.

If Gene choose not to volunteer, I will be more than happy to do it, and I have much experience at it.
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Old 06-25-2012, 07:31 PM   #370
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Looks like they are still producing?


In The News | Earthbound RV

Dave
WOW.....even the "cutting edge" competition is starting to look the same.



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Old 06-25-2012, 07:48 PM   #371
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I was recently at an RV show and the salesman told me this Aviator was specifically designed to compete with the Airstream.
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Old 06-25-2012, 08:00 PM   #372
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Still no one forced any of us to buy. Poor losers? Jim
What does force have to do with anything here? There are many ways customers can be dissatisfied with a transaction. Some of those ways involve misrepresentation, fraud, negligence, defective manufacture, misleading advertising, poor workmanship and I could go on to name many more. You seem to be suggesting that unless a person made a purchase under coercion or force, they have no right to complain. Since businesses don't go about forcing consumers to buy. Ergo, the net of your argument is that no one has the right to complain about anything they buy! Hooohah!

Force is irrelevant in these commercial transactions. People have expectations which are derived from many vectors. Some from manufacturer's promises, some from written materials, and some from mythological constructs. They are ALL valid forms of expectation.

The dynamic between seller and buyer is a two way street. Buyers demand and sellers offer. People can surely give up their right to demand from the seller, but why would that be a benefit to them? I think in all circumstances that I am aware of, buyer pressure on performance, design, price, and other terms of a transaction yields benefits to the buyer's side of the equation.

What I see happening here is a level of dissatisfaction among several owners who would like to see their side of the equation improved. I can say for myself, that my interest is in the future purchase we may be making of our next AS. If I had my choice, I would want a lifetime warranty against leaks, for instance. That would be my consumer demand. If I can get that, why wouldn't I?

Force is a meaningless concept in this thread.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:42 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by danlehosky
Z and z, I'm not miserable and I have no intention to make either of you miserable or to share in your misery or anger. If this made me mad or I wasn't enjoying the banter I would just unsubscribe from the thread. Is it really that you are escatic with your purchase or have you backed yourself into a defensive corner at all costs. Again, I'm mostly happy with my trailer, but in some areas I've settled. And I don't like that. The design of the rear gaucho, dinette is pathetic. Almost unusable. I will change this. Zig I'm really glad you're happy, but some people are having problems and this thread has gone a long way in showing that Thor and AS are no longer in the travel trailer business. They are merely a corporate conglomerate that manufactures travel trailers as a way to satisfy their shareholders rather than the consumers who buy them. If it were the opposite there would be few quality issues and these issues would be easily taken care of without a drive across the country.

Everytime I think this thread has run it's course something else pops back up. Yesterday I was thinking about a different model where quality and customer service trump profits. I know it would never fly or even roll but I was having fun and I think this discussion has opened up a lot of peoples eyes about corporate culture in general. Your AS is not produced to be the best travel trailer available but to be the most profitable trailer for Thor industries. The bottom line will always prevail.

Gene, I'm looking for some money here.

But then think about what happened at Earthbound.

Dan
Ok, what happened to Earthbound?
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:43 PM   #374
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Fly, does that mean you're in? I have a bank account setup for deposits.

Dan
Dan, I didn't know you were the first Airstream owner in.............
Nigeria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike91208 View Post
I was recently at an RV show and the salesman told me this Aviator was specifically designed to compete with the Airstream.
Mike, I got all excited about that so Googled "The Aviator trailer" and this is what I got: The aviator (original trailer) - YouTube
Geeze.....lol!

BTW, did you know Hughes designed his own motorhome?
http://www.rvhotlinecanada.com/RV-Hi...c=rv-resources
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:24 PM   #375
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When I clicked on the link for the Evergreen trailer I noticed that they have a 12 year warranty on the roof.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:29 PM   #376
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I'm in Santa Fe checking out the real estate market and having some fun too. Can't be writing letters or manifestos now.

I think it must answer: why are we writing this, what we propose, why it is practical, what Thor gets out of it. I'm sure there's more, but I'm back on vacation.

Gene
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:19 AM   #377
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I'm in Santa Fe checking out the real estate market and having some fun too. Can't be writing letters or manifestos now.

I think it must answer: why are we writing this, what we propose, why it is practical, what Thor gets out of it. I'm sure there's more, but I'm back on vacation.

Gene
No problem. I have written a draft this morning which I think will be a useful tool for moving forward.

I think the best way to go is to start a new thread specifically to support the idea that is embraced in the last few days regarding a letter to the corporate headquarters signed by the many faithful who are disturbed by quality problems.

I am going to communicate with Dan a little about this, then see how to go forward on the forum here.
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:33 AM   #378
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Problems Solved

I have been following this thread with some intrepidation about posting, for reasons that will be apparent.

We have owned two new Airstreams: a 2007 20' Safari SE, and a 2008 25' Safari SE.

I resolved every single problem with either of them in a total of two days. One day involved trading the 20' for the 25'. The second day involved selling the 25'.

Towing over 25k miles, and spending 170+ nights in our Airstreams gave us some great memories, and priceless friends. But, in all honesty, I would not buy another Airstream. My reasons do not have to be rehashed, as they have been sufficiently covered in this thread.

I wish everyone that is still chasing the dream the very best, and hope that we can share our thoughts over an adult beverage somewhere down the road.

Keep the shiny side up!

Chief
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