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Old 06-24-2012, 04:04 PM   #309
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Florida55---
You really said it magnificently. That is a perfect description of business today.

For those who are annoyed by the critique, all I can say is that criticism has many values. It may be fun to be a fan, and uncritical, but that doesn,t accomplish much either. Read business journals and see that critique is essential. Just rah! rah! rah! will bring more of same.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:16 PM   #310
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Guess if I find ways to criticize this delightful trailer we have, I'd be criticizing everything. Then my grandchildren would remember me as an old grump.

doug k
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:44 PM   #311
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We have all given Mojave our sympathy, but will he ever be happy? I doubt it. He has already said that he has purchased a $400 tent and if he has trouble with it, he will return it. He was given options for repair on the AS, but he chose to do it his way.
I had a SOB that was a "lemon", but after 1 1/2 years i traded it. It went so far that the national sales manager said "if I thought I had problems, try legal action" Fleetwood went under on travel trailers shortly after that.
It will be 3 years in August since I got my Airstream. The only problems I have had were not AS related. It must not have been built on a Monday, Friday or start of a holiday.
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Old 06-24-2012, 04:49 PM   #312
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Another example of subtle intimidation.Criticize another's comments instead of defending your own. I am sure the mods will consider this a personal attack, so I am probably gone. Jim
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:11 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum
Guess if I find ways to criticize this delightful trailer we have, I'd be criticizing everything. Then my grandchildren would remember me as an old grump.

doug k
I don't consider it to be about specific trailers as much as it is about the future of the legend, the wonderful myth, and the trailer the next person buys.

We have been on a three week tour of Oregon with ours and we love it in way that I think Mohave should been able to love his, and how EVERY buyer should get to love theirs. Life is too short for leaking roofs.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:22 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by danlehosky
The unfortunate reality of what RWG and others said is very true. Quarterly profits will trump leaks every day. The fact is this is a tough busines to be in. Travel Trailers are a descetionatory item. Wally Byam created a legend. Thor industries builds trailers, for a profit.

To lighten this thread up I thought about asking if anybody would be willing to put up some venture capital for a hostile takeover, but I doubt it.

Harley Davidson went through these same kinds of issues when AMF took them over and it didn't take long for sales and customer confidence to decline. As Honda and others built better bikes HD became a joke. It took Willie Davidson to buy back the company, with some backing and reinvigorate the product back to the iconic brand it once was. They're having problems now too

You're not gonna get your leakproof, non rotting trailers until something similiar happens with the AS division of Thor industries. If this economy continues to stumble or fails again you might be able to get a bargain. Any takers?

If I was younger I'd give it a shot.....

Dan

PS This is starting to sound like a business school class.
What a fabulous idea that is Dan. Of course, it is not an easy thing to do. The legend really deserves a new visionary ownership. The mind reels at the possibilities! A billionaire who loves RVing the way Wally did --no more food companies, holding companies, or hired guns, but some real pride of ownership and adventure. Someone like the guy who started Tesla Cars.

It really is disheartening to see the legend slave to the bean counters and stock brokers.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:22 PM   #315
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I think it's time to go stand out in the rain and cool off.

For others just take a cold shower in your non-leaking AS.

Adios

Bob
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:30 PM   #316
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I don't consider it to be about specific trailers as much as it is about the future of the legend, the wonderful myth, and the trailer the next person buys.
I'm in total agreement here. As I said earlier, I don't expect perfection, and I wouldn't own any other brand, however, given the steep asking price and the quality, though better than SOBs (which again isn't saying much), is inconsistent. I myself cannot justify buying a new trailer and I qualify my comments by saying I've owned two new trailers (2003 Bambi and 2004 Safari). Neither of which met the expectation-- by a long shot. Been following the brand like a religion for close to 10 years. Love the trailer, like the folks at AS, just wish they put a bit more effort into building them. Sloppy caulk, leaky showers, shells and wheel wells, sloppy cuts, hidden food wrappers in closed up places, corrosion showing up mere months after production are hard pills to swallow. Just met a gent, at Terra Port (factory on-site campground) who has had 2 or 3 and said this is the last one he's buying. Shelled out a pretty penny and the body is looking like something Spider Man would weave. Thing isn't even a year old if I recall correctly.

It's easy to stick one's head in the sand, but I would encourage folks to look at the QC threads. There are I believe 4, maybe 5 years of data. It's not that most folks here are bashing Airstream (though possibly a few are), it's that we're simply understanding how someone could leave the brand with a bad taste in their mouth. I don't look at this as a gripe session, but folks simply sharing their observations and opinions. It's up to the reader to sift the data that is clearly out there to separate the fact from the fiction as the statements are offered at face value.
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:33 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS
I think it's time to go stand out in the rain and cool off.

For others just take a cold shower in your non-leaking AS.

Bob
HaHa --- That's funny Bob!
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:02 PM   #318
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Silver, I think this thread left Mohave's issues long ago and has turned into a healthy mostly functional discussion about AS in general. Most people are happy, but some realize that the quality could be much, much better.

If I had the money and the enthusiam I would somehow leverage AS away from Thor industries and begin to rebuild what was once a Travel Trailer company.

For all of you, this is a WHAT IF post......

1. I would halt production
2. I would reallign the relationship between engineering and production so that there is collaboration rather than the usual head butting.
3. I would allow engineering to have the kind of budget and impact that would be needed to solve problems that are All solvable.
4 Design and consistency of QC in production would be my number one goal.
5 Train, train, train. A well trained workforce is your best asset.
6 Now I'm 10 million in the hole.
7 Using the engineering improvements resume limited production and experiment with techniques and builds.
8 Hire a spokesperson that has some believability with the public. The name that comes to my mind is the recently retired NASA astronaut Mark Kelly. Let the suspense and anticipation of a new product build. The RV industry is now going crazy (and I am going broke).
9 Begin driving the new models around the country and have staged events. Can you feel the excitement building? Focus all of your PR attention on your total commitment to quality and innovation. By now people are begging to buy one.
10 I am 40 million in the hole and having a ball. I think I'll go on a caravan.
11 Resume normal production, continue to give design and engineering the budget they need to innovate.
12 Incorporate all of the values of excellence into the production line and don't settle for anything less.
13 I am now 50 million in the hole but proud and happy with what I have done and the Trailers are flying off the lots.
14 Anyway thats what I'd do if I hit one of those Mega Bucks Lotterys.

Dan
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:20 PM   #319
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Dan,

I'm ready to go! All we need is 1,000 venture capitalists to put $50,000 each into the pot. I'll write a check right now if we can assemble the right team.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:36 PM   #320
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I just came in from the rain checking on the trailer. Only one leak so far but half of it is covered to keep the leaks on that end from doing any damage Oh yea, we have had 4 To 6 inches in some areas already and expect at least that much more from the TS. Tarps are a wonderful thing. Jim
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:16 PM   #321
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Dan,

I'm ready to go! All we need is 1,000 venture capitalists to put $50,000 each into the pot. I'll write a check right now if we can assemble the right team.
Perhaps Fleetwood would sell the Avion brand name to a new group of investors for a pittance.
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:58 PM   #322
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I just came in from the rain checking on the trailer. Only one leak so far but half of it is covered to keep the leaks on that end from doing any damage Oh yea, we have had 4 To 6 inches in some areas already and expect at least that much more from the TS. Tarps are a wonderful thing. Jim
This thread has evolved into one of the best discussions related to the manufacture of the brand that we all want to see be the best in the industry, yet you seem to be trying very hard to discourage this discussion. Why is that? I for one have sold my vintage trailer and am weighing the pros and cons of buying new and want to see all views expressed unfettered. If this discussion offends you, you do have the option to put it on your ignore list. The fact that you love your trailer is awesome - I don't begrudge that of you. I also feel that you shouldn't begrudge people from discussing their bad experiences with the brand. At the end of the day, we will all, hopefully, come out ahead from that experience.
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