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Old 06-09-2012, 09:02 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by danlehosky View Post
The big question is why am I sitting here on Saturday night writing this. I'm going to go out to the trailer and make some HURINE. Wake me up at 11.

Dan
Dan, even more worrying is—why am I reading it on Saturday night?

This is related to something my wife says: "you know you're old when the phone rings on Friday night and you hope it's not for you".

But to get back to whatever, native intelligence can be found anywhere. I have known very bright people with terrible educations. Education helps in most cases, though sometimes it stifles creativity.

Probably we need a sociologist to report back to us on all this.

Gene
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:13 PM   #170
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Gene, An educated fool is still a fool.....
Two important things I've learned
Sociology classes taught me how crazy everybody else is
Psychology classes taught me how crazy I am.

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Old 06-09-2012, 09:43 PM   #171
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[QUOTE=Phoenix;1158865]
I think if Thor could answer these "philosophical questions", they could reduce costs and increase reliability by switching to newer materials and construction techniques.

Then, if we could just get Thor to quit putting Goodyear Marathons on Airstreams, ... QUOTE]

Thor has always operated as a very decentralized company. The Thor corporate offices has very few people. Thor has always allowed each company to operate as a separate company to meet corporate profit goals. This is different than most large corporations but it is how it operated under Thompson.Thor sets the bonus structure for its companies.

It's Airstream management that is directly running Airstream that need to answer your "philosophical questions".
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:17 PM   #172
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I have read this thread with interest for a few days now instead of about restoring my 73 Tradewind. A couple of quick comments.

I believe pride of workmanship is part of a larger set of values. It may begin with ,as wise old Socrates admonished, to know thy self. To me, a lowly, state college educated, blue collar woodworker, long time, rural living, X city person, what I do, how I do it, and how easy I don’t break when going gets tough is paramount to how I perform my work and who I am. If you’re a blue-collar person, society does not readily lavish praise or status on you. What you do have is your work and if you don’t have pride in it, almost as a sacred thing, what do you have?

I will say when you live in urban environments in order to get along with so many others so close around you have to refine your thinking and be adaptable. You may even develop thinking that like “except for the grace of god go I and develop compassion and tolerance”.

On the other hand, there can be too much blah, blah, blah and encroachment by other who are not grounded in place and community like they can be in smaller communities and living closer to the land and a traditional lifestyle. Some people think milk comes from the store and don’t know there is a cow involved. Maybe they go to the school according to Snookey

I have found many correlations between Airstream and their lovers and old tool guys. I knew this even back when I was looking. I gently warned myself to listen with a grain a salt knowing that true believers can lead you astray. It served me well as has this fine forum and the help I have gotten from it.

Many fine tool names of yesteryear are hollow shells of what they used to be. Delta and Powermatic are a joke and their customer service is worse. If you call and ask a question about a Powermatic table saw you will most likely get some pimple face kid flipping through pages in a binder to find the answer, which he won't find.

At the same time, in contrast, a high-end tool company, Festool, of Germany, have exceeded their growth expectations in this country. Their tools are about 25 percent better than anything else and cost close to twice as much. Over the years their warrantee has gotten better. The three years applies now to not only the original owner. They, I believe, pay shipping too. It is a pleasure to use their tools with long cords and innovative features. People seem to forget the high cost they paid to work with such quality. Those that can afford them, like Airstreams, will happily pay and enjoy what they have bought. And tell their friends about the joy to be found. The worse thing is pay a premium price and not get what you should. They we tell our friends a different story, a tale of woes.


Another thing, I doubt the Airstream executives care about the same things as some owners of Airstream do, except to play off their emotional connection to the product , Americana, history, icon, Wally and all the rest, in an ad to sell us. Their concern is to put the beans in their bank accounts, but far be it for me to be cynical in public.

Regards

Tony
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Old 06-09-2012, 10:21 PM   #173
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One of the most intelligent people I have ever known only has a high school degree - name an animal and he will tell you the genius and specie. He can converse about anything yet is humble - mosquitoes don't bite him out of respect. I know individuals who have PHD's who really don't know great deal about anything. The problem with workers at AS is likely a lack of motivation to build a great product, because of management or society. Happy, motivated people build great products, regardless of low pay or lack of education. I know a young man who grew up on the streets of Juarez who was a computer animator on Iron Man 2 and Transformers 2 as well ss other videos.
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:31 PM   #174
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Tony, saying that living in a small community makes you more more grounded makes no sense to me. I know plenty of very well grounded people from both settings. Some may be better suited to one or the other, but grounding comes from within your own set of values not your enviornment.

Dan
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:53 PM   #175
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Actually I was saying it can go either way and was not taking a stand just throwing it out there. I said "can be". I should of bit my tongue
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:40 AM   #176
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Hi, this is a tragic story. But I've seen them before. Working at new car dealers since 1968 I have seen it all. [almost] There were people that couldn't be pleased and there were vehicles that couldn't or shouldn't be repaired. Any RV tech should be able to seal any RV. [even if it's an Airstream] How many of us/you have repaired things on your Airstream without problems and without factory training? Mojave got a bad trailer and and like many bad cars, it should have been a Buy Back. [or replaced at no cost to them]

As for Airstream; It's time to modernize a little bit. How about some bows made more like the ones in airplanes. This way the roundness of all Airstreams and all of the parts would be the same. Not like now where the left front and the right front floors have a different curve to them. Also I think it is time to die-cut or stamp out all holes in the body panels for windows, vents, and doors Etc. Not freehand with a pneumatic cutter or nibbler. I also think it is time for a stronger frame that doesn't depend on a piece of plywood to hold the body to the frame.

Has anyone noticed the yellow school busses shaped like an Airstream and riveted like an Airstream, but made much better? What are they doing different? [besides painting them]

I think this thread has had the blame game going round and round. I blame Airstream for making one bad trailer. And I blame Airstream for not doing a Buy Back on one bad trailer. Just admit that you made a bad one, take it back, and let the workers dissect it so they can learn from their mistakes.
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:42 AM   #177
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Tony, I should have bit mine too. Come up and look at the dory sometime. Or google Thunderbird Sailboat Kit. The designers last name was Hoppen. They had a hell of a time bending that marine plywood. They used winches, come-alongs, dock pilings, concrete curbs. Whatever was handy.

Dan
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Old 06-10-2012, 12:50 AM   #178
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Jimbob, Intelligence and education are two very differet things. They usually mix very well though.
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Old 06-10-2012, 03:54 AM   #179
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Question

Is anyone here but me having a problem accessing page 4 of this thread? I was reading back through the thread to see if I could get additional perspective, and to see if I offended anyone with my comments to the point they have put me on ignore. Whenever I try to access page 4, it returns to page 3. I can access page 5, and the rest of the thread, by clicking directly on them. As it stands now, posts 76-100 are missing. At least, they are for me. I guess it could be my browser, or me.

EDIT: It was my browser (Firefox). I was able to access those posts using Internet Explorer. Happy to say that none of the posts were mine.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:23 AM   #180
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Curious, I guess I missed it with the turn this discussion has taken. What was the final disposition of the trailer that was the source of this discussion? Scraped, bought back by Airstream or pawned off to some unsuspecting sucker? I did find one reference to "consignment".
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:08 AM   #181
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This is my first post here. Just joined the forum a week or so ago. Been reading everything from which generator(s) to get all the way to whether or not to tow with LP on to keep food cold in the fridge. Then I landed on this thread and couldn't stop reading until I got to the end, and the parallel one as well. I was up until 1:30 in the morning. It is now after 6:00 am and I'm awake again because of this thread. It is truly a nightmare that made it difficult to sleep. I realized I have a connection to this trailer. I've been in it while it was up for sale!!!

A little history. The DW and I are both active Canadian Forces (me Navy, as a stoker, her Army as a physician). We met when she was posted to my ship a few years back. That's another story. It has been a great career. The navy has allowed me to see a little bit of a lot of the world. However, there is a huge continent right here I haven't seen much of except a quick drive though to the next base. I retire this summer, DW next summer. I convinced DW it might be fun to look at RVs and see if it is something we might want to do. Next thing you know, we bought our TV, and dropped 10% on a '13 28' Serenity. Hope it arrives by end July.

So, as part of our shopping we stopped by Triangle RV. We live in Victoria on Vancouver Island. We walked though all the SOBs (took me awhile to decipher that acronym). The level of detail, the fit and finish of those units didn't give us a warm fuzzy feeling for spending large amount of time (and money). We stumbled on a Bambi sitting on the lot. We went inside and were immediately impressed with the interior. The exterior is sexy as hell, no brainer there. One of the sales associates approached us and mentioned it was a consignment sale. "The owners bought it back east, drove it out here and decided it wasn't for them." No mention that it had massive leaks or that the entire interior was replaced. I commented that the interior still smelled new. As I think back, it is odd that I didn't clue in to the fact that the owners used this trailer for at least a week, but never bothered to remove the plastic from the mattress?

So, after reading this thread and realizing that walking through trailer that Mojave just got rid of as the main reason we pursued purchasing an Airstream has me more than a little worried. We purchased ours through an authorized dealer in Langley, BC-(yes, ferry ride just for the weekend so we could sit in a 25' Flying Cloud they had on the lot then drop a deposit on an even bigger, more expensive trailer the next day after we got home). Did we just make a huge mistake/leap of faith committing to dropping over $100k on a TV and TT? We traded a pristine '09 BMW 335i against a '12 Toyota Tundra!! There's a culture shock, one minute driving a BMW, then after a short time signing papers, driving away in a truck. It really made it sink in that we are doing this. I hope that the Bambi is this thread is the very rare exception in the type of quality we can expect from Airstream. Ours is being built as we speak! I hope the employees only work on our trailer on Tuesday's, Wednesday's and Thursday's. I don't want a Monday or Friday trailer if some slight lapses in attention while assembling these things could result it the mess Paul & Lisa had to deal with. Please tell me that it will be fine, we will love our trailer and get many years of hassle free enjoyment out of it!

For a first post, I think I went bit overboard(no navy pun intended). I look forward to using this forum as a resource in the future. I do hope that Airstream still checks this forum to get the feedback they probably don't get from their dealers. Whether it is a dealer submitting a factual account on a warranty claim, or a customer "blowing things out of proportion" in a forum rant, the underling issue is there are problems with some of the trailers and solutions need to be found. I have quite a few shipmates that go RVing, and they are very jealous that we are getting an Airstream. I want to be able to tell them it is the best trailer they could buy, and not a waste of money. Bad news travels faster and farther than good news. The military community is a tight one, and that is a huge customer base that no retailer should want to alienate.

Paul & Lisa, I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I hope you are able to continue to enjoy this beautiful island we share. If things go well, you will see a Tundra next to an Airstream sitting near your beach, please drop by. Hopefully hearing some good stories about these trailers will put a smile back on your face.

Stephen
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:45 AM   #182
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Please tell me that it will be fine, we will love our trailer and get many years of hassle free enjoyment out of it!
Stephen, I wish I could and I'm sure everyone who posts on this thread wishes the same thing.

Mojave's situation was not typical. Why it sat on the Triangle lot so long allowed to leak is unknown to us. It almost seems like a perfect storm situation. But, many of us have had a lot of problems. And many of us have not. Even those of us who have had a lot of problems stick with Airstream and make them better than the factory wanted to.

Maybe you can make arrangements at the factory to watch it being built. I have a vague memory of someone going to JC to see their trailer while still on the floor. Maybe that would mean they'd do a better job. And it would be nice to see the insides so you know how it works.

Will it be "fine"? Hard to say.

Will you "love" it? Probably.

"Hassle free enjoyment"? There will be issues as with any RV and it helps if you educate yourself as much as possible so you can diagnose and fix things.

"Many years"? Yes.

Welcome to the Forum. I understand the anxiety after reading this thread and I'm sure you are both mature enough to work your way through this. With a doc, anti-anxiety meds are only a script away.

Gene
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