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Old 02-19-2007, 12:16 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by kitfoxdriver
John, Not quite. The average annual inflation rate over the past 15 years is 2.67%. If an inflation only adjustment were made to your 1992 purchase price of $33, the 2006 price would be about $49,000. However, weren’t there significant modifications made to all Airstreams over the past 15 years that would be "add on" costs and aren't being considered in the inflation only price? If so, then it appears the market place (Airstream) is "speaking" to the demands of the consumer.

Neil
Neil,
My Inflation Calculator brought it out to just over $47k (close enough for goverment work ) I too have wondered about the "added value" but in a 10 year span I haven't really seen any real upgrades that would justify that great an increase. Yes the slide outs were added, and some fancy audio/visual stuff...but not $60k worth. I suspect there is more than just plain inflation at work. I have no clue but I know there have been increases in at least some materials that have exceeded overall inflation, as well as increase in profit margins. I know that if you don't increase the efficiency of the production or the perceived value of your product you will lose your profit(s) as well as the necessity of increased production. I think Airstream has been maxed out on production for several years. The metals market has been pretty volatile over the last couple of years we have seen increases of our stainless steel sheet goods almost double in the past 5 years, with copper following suit and in some cases become unobtainable in certain alloys.

Aaron
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Old 02-19-2007, 12:21 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by john hd
i dunno if the price is too high. my 1992 was 33K delivered. after 15 years or so of inflation i imagine it would be around 70k now.

if i were to sell my house and everything but the truck and motorcycle and hit the road 100k would be reasonable.

john
While inflation may not totally explain the rise in pricing, I think that's a huge component. I'm not sure of the year, (I worked there 1980 - 1987) But when I worked for a Cadillac dealer, I remember the first $20K unit that hit the floor, and I said that nobody would ever pay that much for a car.
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Old 02-19-2007, 12:43 PM   #17
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There is no question in my mind that there would naturally be some increase in price. On average, for arguements sake, say 3%. There have been some increases in costs, namey energy and aluminum. Taking all these into account, it's hard to justify a trailer over $100k. Yes, they are very nice, don't get me wrong, but if I sold my house, etc, I doubt I would place 1/2 it's value into a thing that would loose it's value....I would most likely buy that unit 2-3 years from now when it's worth a good sum, but far less.

...and yes, I know there is a significant discount of list...but even when there were no energy or aluminum costs increases that were very drastic, Airstream was putting 5% increases across the board. At some point I would suspect either the market will dictate that the trailers have to be near what the MoHos are at (in terms of interiors and amenities) for the 6 figure prices or at some point, Airstreams could find themselves priced out of the market. Just my thoughts on it....
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Old 02-19-2007, 12:50 PM   #18
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Also,

Market forces being what they are, if the $100k unit doesn't sell, they will drop the price or drop the model. Somebody must be buying them...
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Old 02-19-2007, 01:02 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Fyrzowt
Market forces being what they are, if the $100k unit doesn't sell, they will drop the price or drop the model. Somebody must be buying them...
Yes, there are a few buying the $100k+ unit trailers, but there are many pitfalls to that segment. One, is fuel prices, when I was at the factory when it $2- $2.50 a gallon was a reality, the factory production line had big gaps in it. Compare that to how it was when we first visted the factory in late 2003, there were nearly no spaces. Now I know we've all gotten use to the fact that gas/diesel is going to stay above $2/gallon, but if it hits $3 again, or if interest rates go up, you will find these units not being pulled off dealer lots.

Right now I would estimate, based on the number of units I saw on the production floor the few times I've been to the factory would be units between 19 and 25 feet long. It's my believe that this is their core segment. However, even these are getting a bit out of hand. For example, my 2004 25' SS retailed for $39,143.00 base. That same unit is now $45,083 for what I believe to be the 2007 model year (knowing that the '08s are just around the corner, and most likely another price increase).

That said this represents about a 5% increase or nearly 2x the rate of inflation, even with the retail price adjusted by whatever one could negoit.

3 more model years from now, we will be looking at $51000 25' base Six Sleepers!
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Old 02-19-2007, 01:07 PM   #20
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Oh, and by the way, look at the many QC threads and the improvement idea threads.

After reading all these, then come talk to me about spending $100k on a Classic slide (today's dollars) or $51k on simple 25' SS (projected 3 model years out).
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Old 02-19-2007, 01:11 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by 85MH325
It's amazing, Jack. My 34 was $67,700 new and loaded with about $10k in options in 1994...
well you fellas are mixing up models a bit here...

johnhd is refering to a double axle excella. not a 34.

the closest current model, a 30/31 classic is not 100k.

so using roger's reference price for a 34 in 94 would be more in line with the '100k' unit.

and that is a SLIDE unit. the same 34 without slide is under 90k....before discount.

as reference my 05/34 with ltd. upgrade was msrp in mid 80s and purchased in mid 60s....

wider, skylights, disc brakes, greater carry capacity and so on...

so roger's 94 at 67K to my 05 the price increase is close to cpi/inflation. of course he DID get 2 doors!

keep in mind the 100k unit has a slide. these add 11-14K$ to the price....an expensive extra few square feet.

a 30 with slide and a 34 without slide are about the same list price.

cheers
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Old 02-19-2007, 01:33 PM   #22
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For those in the market for a new coach price increases are difficult to swallow. But if you are a current owner there are some plus's. The used trailer market will follow in proportion $$$ price wise. Even though trailers depreciate, the cost of new will continue to support the higher used prices. If you're looking to buy new there is little need to put off buying. With interest rates such as they are, compared to the ever increasing cost, the increase in prices over the period of time one normally finances, would be greater than the interest paid if financed. Thus little advantage to waiting until you can pay cash. Add to that even further , financing done through a dealer gives them a little more profit margine to work with and in some cases can get you an even better deal. When will this all stop, who knows, One thing for sure as long as there is a back order for the product there is little incentive to reduce pricing------- pieman
as a PS the dealer we've done busness with has a 34' slide for $108,000
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Old 02-19-2007, 01:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
if I sold my house, etc, I doubt I would place 1/2 it's value into a thing that would loose it's value....I would most likely buy that unit 2-3 years from now when it's worth a good sum, but far less.
I donít think itís really an apples to apples comparison, that is, comparing real estate property to personal property. BUT, your point about waiting to buy a unit that is 2-3 years old is a really good one! If A/S has indeed saturated the market for their "high priced" units, then it's likely we who purchased new (0-10 years) will see a less steep deprecation curve and/or a significant increase of the appreciation rate (using John hd's '92 Excella as an example) of their older A/S TT. Just my opinion.
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Old 02-19-2007, 02:01 PM   #24
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Save Money? Full Time!

In my area, year round lots in a nice campground go for $4500 per year. (I pay a lot less than that, but have to move around a bit.) My heat pump actually works pretty well, but I've had to go to furnace quite a bit when the temp gets below 32 degrees so propane costs for the winter will likely be $150. No additional electric, sewer, water, garbage collection charges mean that I'm maxing out my Roth IRA every year and looking frantically for tax free investments in preparation for retirement.

See you CAN afford that $100K Airstream!

REALITY CHECK: Full-timing isn't for people with small or large children. They need stable schools and a village of friends and neighbors... but for empty nesters or cuckoos (I let my sister have and raise the children!) full-timing can be money SAVING.

I think what's really happening is that many of the old hippies, etc. have totally sold out and bought into the "keeping up with the Jones'es" mentality. Really, the expensive mohos are totally status symbols - as are all of the 5 bedroom "executive" houses being built... And have you looked at our cars lately? I'm expecting my next one to come with electric nose pickers! Ours has turned into a new Gilded Age with as much ostentation and vulgar display as the Victorians ever managed, and then some.

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Old 02-19-2007, 04:05 PM   #25
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Hi All...not sure the current prices of the 30'-34' Classic Limiteds will promote continuing unit sales growth...there always will be some buyers...but not many new AS buyers at that price.

As a wanabee that will pay cash when I buy...I can afford $100K but likely will not...for three primary reasons...

1) quality appears to be about the same as the "higher level" SOBs in the market...ya I know...the bland white boxes!...but many of the components are the same or comparable. ie axles, electronics, appliances, tires, wheels, etc.

2) storeage and space is at a premium in the ASs (creates liveabilty)...unless at 30'-34'...wife didn't really like any of the RVs we looked at until she shopped a couple of "higher" level 5th wheels...lots of storeage and space.

3) price...while I love the nostalgia and the AS community...the premium that Thor is now getting is IMHO excessive. Seems like a 25%+ brand premium might be reasonable...but have you looked at some of the other "higher level" SOB give you for a net $$$$s around $40-$50K? Example...not unique...say a 35' Sunnybrook Titan 5er with nearly all the upgrade options...lists for about $50K+ but nets in the low to mid $40K area.

Yes, I do know that they will not be restored 25 years from now...but that is not what most buy them for. All will depreciate...and I would guess a 30'-34' AS will depreciate more in 5 years than will a $40K Sunnybrook...even though the AS will still be very expensive sold as used in five years. BTW...I AM NOT selling Sunnybrook...just an example...there are many other medium to higher quality TTs and 5ers that have quality interiors and quality components...and I am confident are at least as well put together as a new AS.

Summary...not an issue if AS was content being a "niche" low volume brand...but I think the current pricing philosophy will present issues as Thor tries to get more volume from their premium brand holding...I came upon two AS dealers that have stopped stocking the Classic Limited and will concentrate on the Safari...due to the price of the Classic.

IMO AS price premium has grown significantly in the last 5-10 years without a corresponding significant increase in features, benefits and quality...vs...the SOBs...such as SB Titan, Arctic Fox, Excel, New Horizon, etc.

Just FWIW .

Many of you have made great purchases of very nice ASs over the last few years...with the big price increases AS has helped support your used values...not sure that will work over the next 5-10 years?

Please read...my opinions only...I don't count for much...but add your thoughts without the need to "beat me up" for my observations...Tom R
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:15 PM   #26
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Please read...my opinions only...I don't count for much...but add your thoughts without the need to "beat me up" for my observations...Tom R
Not at all Tom! I have watched you in your quest. It has been most thorough and yet you keep coming back here.

Regarding amount of storage space, nothing beats actually getting out there and using an RV before you know what you really need. Sorry, I don't want to bring home and all contingencies with me. Each trip will have a focus -- whether that would be rally, visiting, roaming, fishing, kids, or whatever. Now, what do I have to do to be "there." Eat and sleep. Any gear particular to the purpose? Fine, bring that. But I don't need a miniature home on the road. Wanna see my shop ...
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:16 PM   #27
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You mention dealers not stocking high end models. I wonder if that is smart.
My brother sells and builds log homes. He has always built and/or lived in a large, expensive model(Once he built the business to the point he could afford it). What people see they want. This has proved out over and over in sales. Those dealers with a lower end model home, tend to sell lower end log homes and viceversa. FWIW...
Dave
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Old 02-19-2007, 04:37 PM   #28
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Back in the good old daze...

When I was just barely past a teenager, and working for a car dealership, we had what we called "showroom queens". These were the most expensive, fanciest, option-laden cars possible to buy. Customers would look at them, drool, see the price sticker, and wind up buying a model with less options, or without that newfangled air conditioning . The queen was great to get people in the door and looking, but we usually still had that car at the end of the model year, and had to discount it pretty heavily to sell it.
The opposite seems true today, dealers put the cheapest cars on display, and the customers add options because they don't want a tin can on wheels. I wonder if it has to do with salesmanship, taxes on inventory, or just a different business model.
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